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I think that without the internet that the meeting wouldn't have taken place. Not that he would never have admitted what he did without it but with it "anyone" needing to hear what he had to say can listen to the recording that someone was kind enough to record and share. The recording provides the opportunity for more people to heal.
I'm guessing you are probably referring to me Nonin when you say, "self-righteously quit and have done nothing but criticize and smear from afar." Regardless of whom you are referring to, I know everyone who has left DBZ did so only because they couldn't put up with further hypocrisy and did their best within the organization and from without to push for reform. It seems to me you are the one making personal attacks and smears.
Abbot of Dai Bai Zan Cho Bo Zen Ji (Chobo-Ji) temple, Seattle, USA; psychotherapist and certificated spiritual director.
Hey Nonin, Isn't it about time you admitted how consistently WRONG you have been since the beginning of this entire mess...?
You didn't think anyone should have brought it up originally, that this was the complaints of "old men". That the latest round of posting were just "nothing more than "sanctimonious vilification."" That we shouldn't "Judge others" in this matter. Eido's claim to Soen's lineage, which has been a fabrication. Roko being one of the abused, which she was (she lied to YOU.) Your consistent spiritual bypassing, constantly maintaining to the hurt that: "The sting that you feel is yours, no one else's, and you alone are responsible for what you are carrying. Eido Shimano is no longer stinging you." Literally every line you drew in the sand you were wrong. My god man, I could go on and on pointing out all your errors regarding the Eido/ZSS clusterf**ck, it's so perfectly consistent in it's error.
Hell, you've been wrong about the deeds of your own teacher!
Put both of your "boots on" and admit to that, eh? Your consistent wrong-ness. Maybe it's time you do some self-reflection Nonin, and bow out of these discussions considering just how completely wrong you have been, and still ARE.
In fact, I invite everyone to come look, and see for themselves, the many wrong positions you took.
And Genjo is correct, wresting the "apology" from Eido was like pulling teeth.
What was corrected?
What is Eido getting out of this?
Is he conducting his little come-to-Jesus moment WHILE suing the ZSS? It speaks volumes if it does. He's only weaseling his way back in, and if he doesn't get what he wants then he still has the lawsuit so that he can bleed his own center dry...
...And Roko is so weak she's going to let him come back - mark my words.
This is all just a show of atonement just to bring Eido back.
"Before Arda you were, but others also, and you did not make it. Neither are you the most mighty; for you have spent your strength upon yourself, and wasted it on your own emptiness. No more are you now than an escaped thrall of the Valar, and their chain still awaits you."
Just my style to check a teacher:
Let's see there are 4 types of teacher:
1. Monk, having sex, doesn't admit.
2. Monk, no sex, nothing to admit.
3. Ex-monk, having sex, doesn't admit.
4. Ex-monk, having sex with whoever, admit proudly and publicly.
No. 1 - break rule and liar - useless.
No. 2 - ok.
No. 3 - liar - also useless
No. 4 - doesn't break rule and not liar.
Between 2 and 4, who Has proven beyond 8 worldly concerns?
No. 2, may still afraid of losing face.
The best teacher is no. 4.
Example: chogyam trungpa, even his Wife who got mad at him admitted his honesty.
Through nonconceptuality, he is immovable.
Regarding Shinge’s apology to Genjo on May 9th, 2012:
by Carol on Thu May 10, 2012 12:55 pm
I must say that I find this apology deeply disturbing ...
(1) It deflects the "blame" for Shinge's defamation onto the person who made her disgraceful statement public. This is analogous to blaming whistle-blowers for revealing corporate or governmental wrongdoing to public scrutiny. Shinge's defamation of Genjo was "unleashed" on him when Shinge wrote it -- Genjo just didn't know it -- and not when the recipient made it public and known to him. Presumably what she wrote to someone she barely knew she also said or wrote to others without compunction. Her claim that this was a "private" communication (to someone she hardly knew) is insupportable. Shinge was defaming Genjo to a member of the public and cannot hide behind "private communication" as an excuse. Whispering slander is one of the most devious and destructive breaches of the precepts, and should be confronted, condemned, and disciplinary action should be taken by the Sangha and/or board of directors when it occurs.
2) It continues the long-time pattern of discrediting/defaming those who have opposed Shimano's predations and sought to make things right. I do strongly believe that there are different legitimate views on how to do that -- but defamation of those who see it differently will certainly NOT accomplish making things right at ZSS. So, the sickness continues into the next generation.
3) This is truly disheartening because ZSS has now coalesced around Shinge Roshi ... She is the prime mover now, and her discernment of ethical conduct is sadly faulty, as demonstrated by this email. This deeply saddens me because I very much wanted to believe Shinge's approach, though not the one recommended by the Faith Trust Institute or Genjo, was capable of restoring an ethical foundation for teaching the Dharma at ZSS.
4) Under these circumstances, I would be very tempted to conclude that ZSS is a lost cause, and that everyone who hoped for better should just move on to more positive endeavors. These things become an energy sink that retards or stops growth in other areas.
The zen event on the 21st accomplished exactly what?
Granny Hawkins tells the Outlaw Josey Wales what that big talk is worth......
*Also what roshi would say just before ringing me out of dokusan
Moderator's Note: I am sad to see this topic devolve into personal recriminations among the members of this forum. Personal attacks are not permitted on the ZFI forum. So, if you must, please take it elsewhere.
The topic is closed.
Practitioners who cultivate the personal realization of buddha knowledge dwell in the bliss of whatever is present and do not abandon their practice.
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