Welcome admin !

It is currently Sun Jul 23, 2017 5:56 am
Pathway:  Board index Zen Discussion Forum Zen Practice & Philosophy Zen Buddhism Practical Buddhism

Lay practitioner dynamic

Discussion of Zen Buddhism-in-action, application in daily life.

Lay practitioner dynamic

Postby anka on Thu Dec 15, 2016 3:36 am

I find the dynamic of being a lay practitioner extremely interesting. On one hand we are trying to be mindfull during our daily lives. Ever pursuing (even though it's been there the entire time) the before thinking mind. On the other hand we are getting paid for completely un-grounded thinking and conceptual thought in general.

They seem to directly conflict each other. Which can lead to interesting but strong practice.
anka
 
Posts: 111
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2015 9:08 pm

Re: Lay practitioner dynamic

Postby desert_woodworker on Thu Dec 15, 2016 4:04 am

a.,

anka wrote:I find the dynamic of being a lay practitioner extremely interesting. On one hand we are trying to be mindfull during our daily lives. Ever pursuing (even though it's been there the entire time) the before thinking mind. On the other hand we are getting paid for completely un-grounded thinking and conceptual thought in general.

They seem to directly conflict each other. Which can lead to interesting but strong practice.

No.

No problem with thinking, or not thinking.

For Zen Buddhist practice, though, and for awakening, it's just that thinking is not helpful. So, we let it rest, and practice instead what is more -- the most -- helpful (all our various practices; a dozen, or more). Learn, and refine them, of course, from the best teacher.

No conflict.

Just as there's no conflict between sleep, and work: i.e.:

    When it's time to work, WORK. When it's time to sleep, SLEEP.
They don't conflict.

But keep your watch (or clock) set correctly.

And at work, think or don't, as needed. Feel free.

Nothing too interesting about it, at all, nor uninteresting. It's just Daily-Life, which is the foremost value of Zen Buddhists everywhere.

:Namaste:,

--Joe
User avatar
desert_woodworker
 
Posts: 6468
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:09 am
Location: southern Arizona, USA

Re: Lay practitioner dynamic

Postby macdougdoug on Thu Dec 15, 2016 9:24 am

anka wrote:On the other hand we are getting paid for completely un-grounded thinking and conceptual thought in general.

They seem to directly conflict each other. Which can lead to interesting but strong practice.



If I think there is un-grounded thinking and conceptual thought, and that they are all in conflict with some other spiritual concept, this is just due to conceptual thinking.
Conceptualisation will obviously lead to conclusions and further concepts, but it is not strong practise.

The before-thinking mind shall remain unsullied even when thinking.
User avatar
macdougdoug
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 862
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:11 pm
Location: France

Re: Lay practitioner dynamic

Postby anka on Thu Dec 15, 2016 12:07 pm

Thank you desert for the zen stick strike. Much appreciated :heya:

Thank you Mac for seeing through what might have been poor wording on my part.

It seems being able to leave work at the office instead of bringing with home with you is where the practice kicks in. It is tough to only drive or cook or eat or sleep if you have not been able to put work down as you left the office.
anka
 
Posts: 111
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2015 9:08 pm

Re: Lay practitioner dynamic

Postby Meido on Thu Dec 15, 2016 3:12 pm

The path of a lay practitioner who does not leave behind normal life is wonderful.

Of course one will still need to do an amount of practice such that, to other people, one's normal life might not appear normal at all.

Layman Pang in China, and Yamaoka Tesshu in Japan, are good classic examples one can read up on.

~ Meido
明道禅徹
The Rinzai Zen Community: http://www.rinzaizen.org
Korinji monastery [臨済宗 • 祖的山光林禅寺]: http://www.korinji.org
Madison Rinzai Zen Community/Ryugen-ji [機山龍源寺]: http://www.madisonrinzaizen.org
http://rinzaiheartland.blogspot.com
User avatar
Meido
Teacher
 
Posts: 932
Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 12:22 am
Location: Madison, WI - USA

Re: Lay practitioner dynamic

Postby anka on Fri Dec 16, 2016 12:38 am

Hi Meido,

Thank you for the reply, it's nice to know you are still around here.

Laymen Pang's story was enjoyable to read, about to dig into Tesshu's story.
anka
 
Posts: 111
Joined: Thu Apr 09, 2015 9:08 pm

Re: Lay practitioner dynamic

Postby ed blanco on Fri Dec 16, 2016 2:46 pm

I am drowning in my practice.
It is lay, and lacking, because all I do is look at my self and wonder who is this fool and why am I stuck with him.
It ain't fun.
:O:
IT SPEAKS IN SILENCE
IN SPEECH YOU HEAR ITS SILENCE

Yongjia Xuanjue
User avatar
ed blanco
 
Posts: 1173
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:49 pm

Re: Lay practitioner dynamic

Postby desert_woodworker on Fri Dec 16, 2016 3:45 pm

howdy, Ed,

ed blanco wrote:...all I do is look at my self...

Have a look at the star Canopus (remember Canopus?). ;)

It's bright. The second brightest star in the entire sky. Seen only from latitudes south of about lat. 35 deg N. The star never gets very high, here, just a few degrees high at maximum (at transit). For S. Florida (your house), it may be ten degrees higher than in S. Arizona (my house). I'm at about 32 deg. 10 min. N.

Try about 1 A.M., your time, for the next few days. Look directly due-South (i.e., Azimuth 180 deg.). It will be highest up at that time ("transiting the meridian"). But still pretty low to the horizon (5 deg high at my house, maybe 15 deg high at yours?).

On Jan. 1, look at Midnight.

A month after that (Feb. 1), 10 PM.

About March 1, look at 8 PM.

Or, ...maybe you see yourself in the star. You're right!

:Namaste:,

--Joe
User avatar
desert_woodworker
 
Posts: 6468
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:09 am
Location: southern Arizona, USA

Re: Lay practitioner dynamic

Postby ed blanco on Fri Dec 16, 2016 5:05 pm

Joe. I now live right on the Everglades...far far west Miami-Dade and almost to Homestead.
It is very dark at night, a farm me and my wife mange for landscaping plants. All star and spider watching I do is with my grandsons 3.5 and 6.5.
I will tell them the legend of Canopus even though it will too late for them at 1, but I can do it, and wonder what to look for, but thanking you for a kind heart and bright mind, always at the disposal of friends in need.
The narrative runs about ME the I, not always but often.
I have stopped sitting and that has hurt. I miss and need it. Maybe that is the consolation, that going back to it after a break, it will sooth my days.
I do feel boxed in. No where to go.
Kindda like what's his name says time to SHUT UP AND SIT.

In gassho,
Ed

:O:
IT SPEAKS IN SILENCE
IN SPEECH YOU HEAR ITS SILENCE

Yongjia Xuanjue
User avatar
ed blanco
 
Posts: 1173
Joined: Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:49 pm

Re: Lay practitioner dynamic

Postby desert_woodworker on Sat Dec 17, 2016 3:44 pm

Ed, Congrats!, on the move to the Everglades. Sounds like a good place in many ways.

And, congrats on the Grandchildren!

To stay on-topic, I'll say I'm a lay practitioner, too: Six years retired, this week. And still practicing astronomy, gone back to amateur tools (naked-eye; binoculars; and my various small telescopes).

Of course, the mind, a sharp pencil, and maybe a computer are tools for both lay and pro. Oh, and good sharp fingernails, for scratchin' the ol' head.

Not to forget a generous helping of wonder, for marveling at the whole thing; egad... . :tongueincheek:

--Joe
User avatar
desert_woodworker
 
Posts: 6468
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:09 am
Location: southern Arizona, USA

Re: Lay practitioner dynamic

Postby Avisitor on Sun Dec 18, 2016 4:51 am

ed blanco wrote:I am drowning in my practice.
It is lay, and lacking, because all I do is look at my self and wonder who is this fool and why am I stuck with him.
It ain't fun.
:O:


Much like a road trip, one doesn't seen the real changes until one stops the car
Looks around and eats the local fare
Then one may notice the changes .. looking back at oneself

A flower sitting in the sun light doesn't look back at itself and wonder why it is separate from the universe
It grows in the environment it was made for ... not separated

Lack of practice, daily practice, it all requires the teacher and sangha
Very much like the flower needs the soil and the sun and the water
When it comes together, it works
Otherwise everything is dust in the wind

Sorry, excuse my ramblings
Yeah, thinking much about the mind is grass and tree ... lol
Disclaimer: There is no intent to be offensive in my posts. None was intended and none should be interpreted as such.
Sorry, got a message that I was not being PC.
User avatar
Avisitor
 
Posts: 1671
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:43 pm
Location: Albany, NY

Re: Lay practitioner dynamic

Postby Caodemarte on Sun Dec 18, 2016 2:45 pm

Hang in there Ed.
Caodemarte
 
Posts: 444
Joined: Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:18 am

Re: Lay practitioner dynamic

Postby partofit22 on Mon Dec 19, 2016 3:39 am

ed blanco wrote:Joe. I now live right on the Everglades...far far west Miami-Dade and almost to Homestead.
It is very dark at night, a farm me and my wife mange for landscaping plants. All star and spider watching I do is with my grandsons 3.5 and 6.5.
I will tell them the legend of Canopus even though it will too late for them at 1, but I can do it, and wonder what to look for, but thanking you for a kind heart and bright mind, always at the disposal of friends in need.
The narrative runs about ME the I, not always but often.
I have stopped sitting and that has hurt. I miss and need it. Maybe that is the consolation, that going back to it after a break, it will sooth my days.
I do feel boxed in. No where to go.
Kindda like what's his name says time to SHUT UP AND SIT.

In gassho,
Ed

:O:


An old friend of mine used to say, "you are where you are supposed to be"- Be it boxed in by bromeliads or snow- You're in the moment- Standing in water, in the dark, with the reflecting stars-
partofit22
 
Posts: 4630
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:36 pm

Re: Lay practitioner dynamic

Postby Guo Gu on Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:08 am

ed blanco wrote:I am drowning in my practice.
It is lay, and lacking, because all I do is look at my self and wonder who is this fool and why am I stuck with him.
It ain't fun.
:O:


:hugs: all we need to do is turn around--vast open sky. and dry.
cheers,
guo gu
Founder and teacher of Tallahassee Chan Center of the Dharma Drum Lineage of Chan Buddhism
http://www.tallahasseechan.com/
Received inka from Master Sheng Yen (1930-2009) in 1995
User avatar
Guo Gu
Teacher
 
Posts: 1300
Joined: Fri Apr 12, 2013 8:52 pm
Location: Tallahassee, FL USA

Re: Lay practitioner dynamic

Postby Lunarious1987 on Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:41 am

At the apocalypse which comes from kalyptein, cover, in reality a revelation where everything is revealed and exposed to light where the mythical trolls turns to stone by day light. We are supposed to be dual. This unveiling is in Allahs hands and not even a teacher can do anything but ease up others. In this knowledge, we can rest and "honorably" hide, because we got the upper hand. We just dont want to rush things. And blind others by our light.

Peace
- Don't be thankful to be righteous. Be righteous to be thankful.
- Shia: "We are the friends/owners of proof, wherever it bends we bend."
- Imam Hussein was once asked: what is affluence? He said : Decreasing your wishes , and being satisfied with what is enough for you.”
Lunarious1987
 
Posts: 315
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2016 2:24 pm


Return to Practical Buddhism

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

 
RocketTheme Joomla Templates

Who is online

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 157 on Mon Sep 19, 2016 8:44 am

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest