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False teacher in Holland

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False teacher in Holland

Postby unsui on Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:46 am

Elsewhere we have discussed the problem with unauthorized "teachers". Here, it isn't the principle I am discussing, but the fact that some people DO tell falsehoods and profit dearly from their claims.

There is such a teacher in Holland the Netherlands, Rients Ritskes, who has claimed to be a Rinzai Zen master for at least the past 10-12 years. I have not met the man, but have had contact with some of his students in Denmark and with his commercial organization, Zenmind. Many of us who were concerned about his claims and the programs he has run have tried to get to the bottom of his story, since there were facts that did not jibe - and now, the whole case has blown up, so to speak. Press releases concerning this case are included in the next posts.

I hope this is not causing anyone here any pain.
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Re: False teacher in Holland

Postby unsui on Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:48 am

Title fraud at Zen.nl, authorizations have no formal value
Rients Ritskes, the leader of Zen.nl, has been educating people to become Zen Teachers or Zen Masters for years, without having any authorization himself. Any authorizations of Zen.nl are by consequence formally without value.

Ritskes made false claims about his status on his website and in interviews and talks. He claimed that he was authorized as a Zen Master in 1999 by Sokun Tsushimoto Roshi, a Japanese zen master who is now a practicing physician. Ritskes calls himself ‘Zen Master’, ‘Dai Osho’ and ‘Roshi’. He cashes large amounts of money for his education activities. In early april, after being urged by Sokun Tsushimoto Roshi, he deleted his false claim from his website. It is however still to be found in many other places on the web. Tsushimoto Roshi has also insisted on a public declaration in which Ritskes tell the truth. So far, this has not happened. The code of conduct of Zen.nl states as #10: ‘You see through your own shortcomings and can easily make apologies where necessary.’ (http://www.zen.nl/nl/gedragscode.php - text has been adapted since: ‘easily make apologies’ changed into ‘try to learn continuously’).

Sokun Tsushimoto Roshi didn’t know about Ritskes’ claim until early April of this year. On his website http://www.revsokun.net Tsushimoto now writes: ‘I declare that I have never ever authorized anyone as a Roshi (zen master).’ He says he is ‘very sad and furious’ about being used by Rients Ritskes like this. He gave Ritskes a rakusu in 1999 as a sign of friendship. The rakusu is a Japanese symbol of the robe of the Buddha. Tsushimoto writes about this: ‘When zen master authorizes his disciple as his Dharma successor, he officially gives his disciple 'Inka-certificate (calligraphy)' as an evidence of authorization. Then a title of Roshi is conferred upon the disciple. Other form of authorization, for example presenting Rakusu, surplice robe and etc, is not allowed.’

For his education activities, Ritskes asks 297,50 euros per month (people with little money can ask for a discount). People can reach a ‘first-, second- or third grade proficiency’ within a certain amount of time, if they meet certain qualifications and efforts. At this time, 135 people follow the program at any stage. Another 100 have done so before. The gross income from only this Zen.nl activity is probably several hundred thousands of euros per year.

Tsushimoto Roshi about the terms and the money involved: ‘One cannot buy zen. It is total nonsense to say that one can become a zenteacher or Zen Master within a certain time frame, even if one has to meet certain requirements. Zen is individual practice in which you search for true self which is no-self. A true Zen Master or teacher doesn’t ask large amounts of money for courses and zen training.’

After Tsushimoto wrote Ritskes about his false statement, Ritskes suddenly writes him something else about his authorization. He now declares that ‘his 30 teachers’ decided to authorize him as a Zen Master / Roshi in 2010. According to Ritskes, to this aim they signed a certificate and gave him a new rakusu. In the Zen tradition it is not possible for students to authorize their teacher. Possibly because of that, he tells Tsushimoto at the same time that he has ‘already broadly announced’ in the Netherlands that from now on, which is 3 years later, he will continue without any ties to Japanese Rinzai zen, and that Tsushimoto hasn’t given any authorization to Ritskes.

Under the pressure of circumstances, Ritskes by now has issued a press release himself in which he pretends to ‘break’ with his Japanese master (that he doesn’t have) out of free will, and that he has left for Japan to bring back ‘his monks robe’. By the way, Tsushimoto Roshi now lives in London. Also, in his press release Ritskes presents the information about his so-called authorization in a false way again.
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Re: False teacher in Holland

Postby unsui on Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:49 am

Press declaration by Ritskes and response by Sokun Tsushimoto Roshi

On April 15th, 2013, Rients Ritskes sent a press declaration to the 145 ‘teachers’ in his education program, with the request to keep it secret. We got it through a source. On April 17th, we made it public with a response by Sokun Tsushimoto Roshi.

Declaration Rients Ritskes

Since recently, there appears to be a big difference in view about the meaning that is being attributed to the Gold Brocate Rakusu that I received publicly from Sokun Tsushimoto Roshi in 1999. It was given to me after years of good and intense cooperation, formally, as a proof of being ‘a competent leader of zazen group in Holland’. On top of that I received permission to continue koan study with my students, to lead sesshin and to educate Zen teachers, all of which is the privilege of (belongs exclusively to) Zen Masters. Also, Tsushimoto suggested the title of Dai Osho (this is an old and presently unofficial Zen Masters title in Japan). I regret that the explanations are now suddenly so different (from each other) and it astonished me very much, because from 1987 to 2003, there always was a very good connection. Around 2003, Tsushimoto exchanged the Zen world for that of medical education to become a doctor. After he left the Zen world and dissolved all contacts with the Zen world (See online: Japan Times artikel on Tsushimoto) I recently heard he resurfaced in London and resumed the contact in December 2012 on my initiative. We spoke to each other in London, where Tsushimoto worked as a medical researcher at the time. There it became clear that our views on how Zen should be in the west, had grown far apart. When Tsushimoto asked me to remove his name from our site, I did that. All in all it made me come to the decision to break with this Japanese line so I can continue to shape our work within Zen.nl, highly evaluated by hundreds of students. See press release.


Response by Sokun Tsushimoto Roshi, April 17th, 2013 
From his position, he would like interpretation like this. I do not know whether he really believes so or just has encouraged himself to believe such convenient interpretation for him. Of course it is also possible that he is using intentional interpretation. Anyway I am afraid it may lead everything to very sterile controversy. We must avoid you said/ I said battle.
 
Mr. Ritskes suddenly asked me for the title of Roshi during sesshin in Tiltenberg (I forgot the year). I got surprised at such a silly and bloated question, but I knew his position: he had two or three teachers with the title of Roshi (Soto) under him. Through our careful discussion I explained why it is impossible to give him the title of Roshi. I said to him, “If you want to be Roshi, you must study koan training with me for years and complete it.”
 
On 11th April Mr RR sent me an email saying as follows:  
 
=  Yes, during sesshins we talked several times this subject. My conclusion is that we have quite a different interpretation about the meaning of Raksu ceremony and I am very sorry for that. You allowed me to practice e.g. koan study with my students, which is only performed by Zen masters and I do remember you told me I could not use the Roshi title, which I did not at that time. Instead you suggested the old and not official title of Dai Osho. I did later on start using the title Dai Osho.  =
 
 
As shown in his email, he admits that I told him he must not use the title of Roshi. Following this, he also says that he did not use the title of Roshi but that he later started using Dai-Osho by my suggestion. As long as reading only this email, it is as if he had never used the title of Roshi. However, he actually claimed that he got authorized by me in 1999 and has used the title of Roshi publicly. Or at least he allowed people to address him Roshi and never corrected it.
 
From the viewpoint of the third person, this discussion may appear exclusive to confusion of terminology; Roshi, Zen Master, Dai-Osho. If RR really knew the Zen tradition, he would never make such claims. I am convince that I have to make it clear about the usage of these title.
 
Terminology:

(1) ‘Roshi’ is the title compatible with the most formal title ‘Shike’ who got officially authorized as a Dharma successor by authentic master.

NB: I have never ever authorized RR as a Roshi, my Dharma successor. I have never told RR that he could use the title of Roshi to call or to make people call himself. RR has very little experience of monastic training and koan study under authentic Roshi. Consequently it is entirely impossible for him to be authorised as a Roshi.

(2) the title of ‘Roshi’ is equivalent to ‘Zen Master/ zen master’.

(3) Dai-Osho is not equivalent to Roshi.

NB: Dai-Osho is not commonly used in Rinzai priesthood. A zen priest is usually called ‘Osho’ formally or ‘Osho-san’ with respect and affection. If one is addressed by such an exaggerated title like ‘Dai-Osho’, it must be somewhat a ridicule or irony. Dai-Osho is respectfully used for deceased priest regardless of Roshi or not.
 
Points of argument to be clarified:

(1) Authorization as a Roshi should be done in the most formal and explicit way. In Rinzai tradition a master gives a calligraphy of Inka-certificate to disciple as a proof of authorization. Needless to say authorization must be backed up by the fact that the disciple spent many years in zen training under the master earnestly and continuously.

(2) Presenting Rakusu cannot become substitution for authorization as a Roshi. In fact I have never stated that Rakusu is the proof of authorization.

(3) I presented Rakusu to RR as a Dharma friend. I was at the time a chief abbot of Buttsuji school but I never used to be his master/ teacher. He also has never behaved as my disciple/ student.

(4) Consequently I was not in charge of giving him authorization and permission to practice koan study with his students.

(5) I knew he had used some kind of koan-like training with his students. As he has very little monastic training and knew almost nothing about traditional koans, I heard it was something like a short dialogue between counsellor and client (indeed he was a counsellor at university). So he knows very well that his koans are not formal (acknowledged by zen tradition) ones and (if we call) have nothing or quite little to do with traditional koans.

(6) Using self-produced koan (if we call) system is not the job of real Zen Master.

(7) Therefore, the statement of RR falls into logically self-contradiction and it makes no sense.
 
It must not be attributed to the difference of interpretation about the terminology and the meaning of Rakusu. I urge him to sincerely examine himself, admit his wrongs, and do all he can to correct them before it is too late. Otherwise it reveals more about his own self-conceit and self-deceit than anything else
 
I am sorry to say that RR does not have a clue as to what Zen Buddhist practice really is. I welcome criticisms of the Zen tradition; indeed, I have criticized it myself at times. His recent criticisms of the Japanese Zen tradition, however, are merely a repetition of what is already well-known. RR himself does not know enough to give a genuine criticism. If he did, he would have the integrity to "look under his own feet" and seriously consider the renowned Zen expression:  "Training in Zen for twenty years – now I know my own shame!"
 
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Re: False teacher in Holland

Postby unsui on Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:50 am

April 18th, 2013

Admittance refused to Ritskes in Japanese monasteries

General Secretary Toga of Tenryuji in Kyoto has contacted all sub-temples of this monastery to tell them not to accept Rients Ritskes to enter. Neither is he welcome in the main monastery. Toga also phoned to another monastery, Sogenji in Okayama, to inform them of the issue. He stated this yesterday to Sokun Tsushimoto Roshi.

Ritskes planned on visiting both Tenryuji and Sogenji on his present trip to Japan. The reason for the drastic measures is the fact that Ritskes continues to give a false impression about his status as a so called Zen Master, in the media and elsewhere. Even after several requests, he refuses to publicly issue a declaration in which he describes the correct state of affairs.
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Re: False teacher in Holland

Postby unsui on Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:56 am

‘Dai Osho’ Ritskes in monastery only for a short time, jukai zen.nl not valid
Zen.nl leader Rients Ritskes, recently accused of title fraud, spent less time in a Japanese monastery than he states himself. On top of this, he was never ordained as a zen priest, so he cannot ordain others. On april 25th, The Japanese Zen monastery Tenryuji informs Sokun Tsushimoto Roshi, a Japanese Zen Master in the Tenryuji line, to this extent.

Ritskes alternately states that he spent five months, six months or a year in Tenryuji. This is not the case. The monastery keeps an official record. From this, it becomes clear that Ritskes was there just a little over three months, from April 4th till July 15, 1987.

Tsushimoto Roshi: ‘His name is not in the list of the Winter Semester commencing 15th Oct 1987. Even if he continued to stay in the monastery during the summer break from 16th July, there is no zazen training in this period and it is not counted as monastic experience.’

‘After that’, Tsushimoto Roshi says, ‘in some years he did part of a sesshin (intensive week of training), not more than one or two days per visit.’ The last short visits were on April 7th and 8th 2010 and June 19th and 20th of 2011, according to the record of the monastery.

From this record it also becomes clear that Ritskes was never ordained as a monk or priest. He was in the monastery as a lay person. He’s not registered as a priest in the Tenryuji line.

Ranzen

During his stay in Tenryuji, he received the name ‘Ranzen’ (Dutch Zen).

Tsushimoto Roshi about this: ‘This is not a monk’s name, since he wasn’t ordained. It’s a name for a lay practitioner.’ In Tenryuji it was common to give a name to full time participants during their stay. A German was called ‘Tokuzen’ (German Zen), a Swiss man ‘Saizen’ (Swiss Zen).

Tsushimoto Roshi: ‘This was normal and pragmatic. Nothing special, no special implications.’

Jukai formally invalid

These facts have consequences for people that did their lay vows (‘jukai’) with Ritskes. These are formally invalid when Ritses performed them implicitly or explicitly in the name of the tradition of Tenryuji or Buttsuji. Buttsuji is the monastery where Tsushimoto Roshi was a Zen Master for several years. Also with this monastery, Ritskes has no relationship whatsoever, says Tsushimoto Roshi. ‘Unless he was ordained in a different Buddhist line, he has no official Dharma lineage that is the basis for giving or receiving lay ordination (jukai).’

‘Dai Osho’

After his title fraud became apparent (‘I was officially authorized as a Zen Master in 1999 bij Sokun Tsushimoto Roshi’), Ritskes claims he has received an ‘unofficial title’ from Tsushimoto Roshi, namely Dai Osho (‘great priest’). Also about this, Tsushimoto Roshi is clear: ‘In Rinzai Zen Buddhism, a priest is commonly called ‘Osho’. Mr. Ritskes has described the rakusu (a garment worn around the neck by priests and lay people) which I gave him as ‘gold brocade’. However, it was only a common one and had no special significance. I gave it to him merely as a sign of friendship.’

‘I do not use such terms as ‘Dai-Osho’ or ‘Dai-Roshi’ (‘great Zen master’), because I hate such exaggerated titles. The term Mr. Ritskes has used for himself, ‘Dai-Osho’, is usually used as an honorific for priests who have passed away. It is rarely used for living people, and when it is, it is used as a cynical criticism. Further, ‘Dai-Osho’ is not at all equivalent to ‘Roshi’ or Zen master.’

‘Mr. Ritskes has not been ordained in the Rinzai Zen tradition, let alone practiced as a monk or served as a priest. Thus, his fraudulent, self-ordained titles, have no validity whatsoever. I feel sorry for the many people who have paid exorbitant prices to him to learn something he himself does not know, and to receive rakusu and jukai (lay-precepts) in illegitimate ordination ceremonies. Having kept the precepts with a pure heart, I trust that they will continue their practice in better circumstances.’
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Re: False teacher in Holland

Postby unsui on Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:57 am

Statement by Sokun Tsushimoto Roshi
april 28th, 2013
After not associating with Mr. R for a long time, the recent revelations came as a “bolt from the blue.” Then reading his recent responses, frankly speaking I can’t help but feel deeply saddened and angered.  

Although the problem may seem complex, it is not. Rather, the basic issue is very simple and straightforward. It comes down to the question I first asked Mr. R, namely: “Why did you publicly state that I gave you formal authorization as a Zen master in 1999?” Why doesn’t Mr. R directly answer this simple question? Does he feel there is no need to answer? Or could it be that he cannot answer?

Instead of directly answering, he avoids the real issue and insists on differing interpretations about me giving him a Rakusu and, according to him, the title Dai-Osho. If Mr. R had the experience or the qualifications and was worthy of being authorized as a Zen master (Rôshi), he would not need to try to twist and turn his way out by giving forced and far-fetched interpretations concerning the plain Rakusu, nor would there be a question of being called Dai-Osho. However outlandish these interpretations of his are, they cannot turn Rakusu and Dai-Osho into formal authorization (Inka Shômei) as a Zen master!

I clearly state: “Mr. R has never been authorized as a Zen master, nor has he met any of the requirements for doing so.” However much he may try and turn his way out or go on about “differing interpretations,” it won’t work. These are the facts, clear, obvious, and undeniable.  

Mr. R has publicly announced that now he is ‘breaking with his Japanese master’, ‘breaking with the Japanese line’ and will continue as an ‘independent modern new Dutch shoot’. He has offered criticisms of traditional Zen. He changed his recent itinerary in Japan and brought his training gear to Tenryûji. We can’t help laughing at this display – because Mr. R has never had any formal connection to break. While Mr. R seeks to appear as someone with deep connections to Tenryûji, in fact there is hardly anyone who has ever heard of him there. We have had enough of his foolish antics and his boasting.

To repeat, my question to Mr. R is nothing difficult: “Why did you publicly state that I gave you formal authorization as a Zen master in 1999?” A child could answer. All the subsequent problems arise from Mr. R’s inability to answer. Lies cannot give birth to anything real. I am ready and waiting for a sincere and honest answer.

To everyone, I humbly ask you to directly confront the essential problem with a clear eye, and trust you will be guided by wise discernment. May this problem be solved as quickly as possible.

Gasshô (Palms pressed together),
Sokun Tsushimoto
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Re: False teacher in Holland

Postby ed blanco on Sat Jul 06, 2013 1:16 pm

Thank you unsui.

:O:
IT SPEAKS IN SILENCE
IN SPEECH YOU HEAR ITS SILENCE

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Re: False teacher in Holland

Postby Meido on Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:07 pm

Unsui,

Unfortunate. There are also other such instances here in the USA and elsewhere, I'm sure.

Of course we know that certifications and titles are no guarantee that someone has continued to correctly cultivate the Zen way and not "gone off the tracks" (thus the necessity to carefully examine one's teacher for several years before committing to him/her). But we also know that someone falsely claiming these things has never succeeded in grasping that way at all.

In terms of the Japanese Rinzai use of such things, it may be worth stating the following here for reference:

1. What English-speakers commonly call "dharma transmission" in Rinzai Zen is inka shomei (often called "mind stamp"). It is rare, i.e. the vast majority of Rinzai priests or laypersons do not receive this. It is different from other usages of the term "dharma transmission", for example the shiho used in Soto practice.

2. Only persons receiving inka shomei would be called by the titles Roshi (if ordained) or Rokoji (lay).

3. Only such persons are formal lineage holders, are listed on lineage charts (after death), and may name dharma heirs/successors.

4. Inka shomei is required to be appointed shike (person in charge or training, or abbot) of a training monastery. The majority of priests not having inka of course may run temples that serve the community, teach zazen and so on.

5. Inka shomei is required to conduct koan practice. This is a practical matter, as only someone who has completed a koan curriculum as used by one of the Rinzai lines would be able to see the entirety and significance of its purposed structure.

6. Generally speaking, titles are never self-utilized. Someone signing a letter, "Sincerely, xxx Roshi" (or Osho, or Dai-osho), for example, likely isn't.

7. Even someone receiving inka shomei has not completed anything at all in an ultimate sense. The real, sheer cliff of Zen practice, which is the barrier to actual seamless integration of insight i.e. effortless practice which transcends "meditation" vs. "non-meditation", is arrived at by many...but not all have the capacity or motivation to jump over. It is entirely possible for someone to complete koan practice, receive inka shomei, and then fail at this crucial juncture of advanced practice, or cease to practice entirely and fall back into habitual delusion.

In other words, we may have some fancy title, but anyone with half a sense of what Zen practice is feels some shame when they hear themselves called by one. Because we all know how far we still have to go, and what a razor's edge it all is right through to the end.

~ Meido
The Rinzai Zen Way: A Guide to Practice
Korinji monastery [臨済宗 • 祖的山光林禅寺]: http://www.korinji.org
Madison Rinzai Zen Community/Ryugen-ji [機山龍源寺]: http://www.madisonrinzaizen.org
The Rinzai Zen Community: http://www.rinzaizen.org
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Re: False teacher in Holland

Postby fukasetsu on Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:12 pm

unsui wrote:There is such a teacher in Holland the Netherlands, Rients Ritskes, who has claimed to be a Rinzai Zen master for at least the past 10-12 years. I have not met the man, but have had contact with some of his students in Denmark and with his commercial organization, Zenmind. Many of us who were concerned about his claims and the programs he has run have tried to get to the bottom of his story, since there were facts that did not jibe - and now, the whole case has blown up, so to speak. Press releases concerning this case are included in the next posts.

I hope this is not causing anyone here any pain.


First of all I beg you to call it the Netherlands and never use the "H" word again :p:

And yes I know the dude and I know he's "false"
I think Chris did a course with him (or his affiliates)
but it is not my place to call this out, I know nothing of a press realease, I know many false teachers for that matter.
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Re: False teacher in Holland

Postby Chrisd on Sat Jul 06, 2013 11:21 pm

fukasetsu wrote:
unsui wrote:There is such a teacher in Holland the Netherlands, Rients Ritskes, who has claimed to be a Rinzai Zen master for at least the past 10-12 years. I have not met the man, but have had contact with some of his students in Denmark and with his commercial organization, Zenmind. Many of us who were concerned about his claims and the programs he has run have tried to get to the bottom of his story, since there were facts that did not jibe - and now, the whole case has blown up, so to speak. Press releases concerning this case are included in the next posts.

I hope this is not causing anyone here any pain.


First of all I beg you to call it the Netherlands and never use the "H" word again :p:

And yes I know the dude and I know he's "false"
I think Chris did a course with him (or his affiliates)
but it is not my place to call this out, I know nothing of a press realease, I know many false teachers for that matter.


Thanks for posting this unsui.
Good to have stuff like this out in the open.
I still sit with a group of the organization and consider some of them as friends.
I don't see them as doing the real thing now no, obviously.

They have done a great deal of spreading the word about the positive effects of Zen meditation and getting people into meditation.
Not a bad thing...
They might have done more good than harm.

But the teacher thing is not good.
So I dunno.
I can only see so far. And that aint far at all!!

Any way, it's good that you are posting this.
:Namaste:
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Re: False teacher in Holland

Postby Sevidal on Sat Jul 06, 2013 11:45 pm

Yes how can a Zen student especially if he has not have a kensho experience tell if a Teacher is false or not. I think only Zen Masters can really tell or determine who is half baked and who is fully baked. Or maybe if you have a confirmed kensho experience. But then there is the question who confirmed your kensho experience. Is he an authentic Zen Teacher.
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Re: False teacher in Dutchyland

Postby fukasetsu on Sun Jul 07, 2013 12:36 am

Thanks for the correction unsui, but I was kind of aiming at the topic title itself :)
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Re: False teacher in Holland

Postby lobster on Mon Jul 08, 2013 6:26 am

Thanks for making us aware of these false institutions :Namaste:

I for one will be looking for a zen teacher who signs herself
Rösti :rbow:

. . . and now back to the essential finger pointing :dance:
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Re: False teacher in Holland

Postby fukasetsu on Mon Jul 08, 2013 6:30 am

lobster wrote:zen teacher who signs herself
Rösti :rbow:



Rasti Rostelli?
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Re: False teacher in the Netherlands

Postby unsui on Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:16 am

fukasetsu wrote:Thanks for the correction unsui, but I was kind of aiming at the topic title itself :)

I did try to correct it, but ended up doing something stupid. So, I will stay on track here and NOT use anything but the Netherlands from now on, if this is the most correct. But, unlike in English, we just have one name for your country, and that is "Holland". What is wrong with this name? Is it like saying "Hinayana"?
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Re: False teacher in the Netherlands

Postby fukasetsu on Mon Jul 08, 2013 9:52 am

unsui wrote:I did try to correct it, but ended up doing something stupid. So, I will stay on track here and NOT use anything but the Netherlands from now on, if this is the most correct. But, unlike in English, we just have one name for your country, and that is "Holland". What is wrong with this name? Is it like saying "Hinayana"?


:lol2:

No, what's wrong with the name is that it is not a name for the country, it's just a region/state.
Would be the same if I'd open up a title called "false teacher in Nordjylland" (and think it means the whole of Denmark) or say "false teacher in Texas" while the teacher is from Nevada or something.
So when meeting someone from the USA I would call him a Texan and think it's the whole country, and when meeting someone from Denmark calling someone a Nordjyllander (-er is probably wrong)
Here's a youtube thingy to explain it.
Usually only unedicated people (no offense) call it Holland.
Holland vs the Netherlands

p.s. Nordjyllander is a region I believe and not a state, not sure if you have states or if it's the same as a region. Holland (north and South) is a state or province, not a region. So apologies if I mistake Danish regions for states, I'm not that educated about Denmark, although I can probably name way more Danish football players then you ever can :lol2:
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Geography lesson re: the Netherlands. OT

Postby unsui on Mon Jul 08, 2013 10:52 am

fukasetsu wrote: :lol2:

No, what's wrong with the name is that it is not a name for the country, it's just a region/state.
Would be the same if I'd open up a title called "false teacher in Nordjylland" (and think it means the whole of Denmark) or say "false teacher in Texas" while the teacher is from Nevada or something.
So when meeting someone from the USA I would call him a Texan and think it's the whole country, and when meeting someone from Denmark calling someone a Nordjyllander (-er is probably wrong)
Here's a youtube thingy to explain it.
Usually only unedicated people (no offense) call it Holland.
Holland vs the Netherlands

p.s. Nordjyllander is a region I believe and not a state, not sure if you have states or if it's the same as a region. Holland (north and South) is a state or province, not a region. So apologies if I mistake Danish regions for states, I'm not that educated about Denmark, although I can probably name way more Danish football players then you ever can :lol2:

My goodness, that guy speaks fast! Lots of stuff I didn't know. So, when I last week planned vacationing in Holland, which obviously meant I wanted to visit the Netherlands, I might also have been referring to the Kingdom of the Netherlands, which means I could end up in the Caribbean, which is one of my favorite places to vacation. Hmmm. Not bad!

In Denmark, we currently have counties and regions. Ten years ago, we had more counties and districts. Life is transformation!
May we extend This Mind over the whole universe so that we and all beings together may attain maturity in Buddha's wisdom
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Re: False teacher in Holland

Postby Anders on Mon Jul 08, 2013 1:08 pm

thansk for posting this.

Rients was my first exposure to any Buddhist teacher of any sort when I was only 17. Needless to say, I was rather put off when I learned he was selling Zen master certificates to business people after a brief 'training' period.
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I would endure it for myriad lifetimes
As your companion in practice"
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Re: False teacher in Holland

Postby Kojip on Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:27 pm

unsui wrote:
Anders wrote:thansk for posting this.

Rients was my first exposure to any Buddhist teacher of any sort when I was only 17. Needless to say, I was rather put off when I learned he was selling Zen master certificates to business people after a brief 'training' period.

We had problems with him and his "group" in the old days, when Buddhistisk Forum existed. He never communicated anything about his background back then - all of a sudden, he was there, a Zen master teaching in Odense. Then, one day, he seemed to just up and disappear. His students were left in the dark.

Now, his Zenmind spreads so-called Zen practice within the framework of corporate Denmark. I think this is worse than the mindfulness trend, since people believe they are getting zen training. They hold "sesshins", they sit in a "zendo" and use "zafus" and an "inkin" - all very "authentic", so it DOES seem convincing. :cry:


Hi. It sounds a bit like this... http://bigmind.org/ . The difference being that one is a legitimate teacher and one is not. Is "Big Mind" Zen training because the teacher is legitimate?

Gassho Richard
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Re: False teacher in Holland

Postby Guo Gu on Mon Jul 08, 2013 4:02 pm

don't know this person and i'm not defending him, but i'm sure some people have benefited from his teachings; if no one has benefited, he wouldn't be teaching.

things are not black and white. as meido says, "certifications and titles are no guarantee" for anything. it's like in the lotus sutra when the buddha said that devadatta will be a buddha! :lol2: or in the avatamsaka wherein manjusri told sudhana to study with a killer. :lol2: what needs to be done should be done, but with an open mind.
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