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"don't seek"

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"don't seek"

Postby organizational on Tue May 16, 2017 6:35 pm

What does it mean "don't seek"

in Zen?

thanks for any replies.
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Re: "don't seek"

Postby desert_woodworker on Tue May 16, 2017 9:13 pm

org'l, Enver,

organizational wrote:What does it mean "don't seek"
in Zen?

If you practice with a Zen Buddhist teacher and sangha (this is exclusively what is meant by "practicing 'Zen Buddhism' "), then one simply follows the practices that the teacher has prescribed for you, and for the sangha. That is all one has to do.

Usually, there are many practices (including work-practice, i.e., cleaning; gardening; food-preparation; temple-upkeep; etc.).

"Seeking" is not one of the practices. And, it would just take you away from your daily work, therefore. Do you see?

:Namaste:,

--Joe

p.s. There are good psychological reasons, too, not to approach practice with a "seeking", or a "gaining" mind. No need to go into these (as it would be an unnecessary "can-of-worms" to open), since we already know that seeking is a "no-no". Best to leave it unexplored, lest a person develop a perverse interest and become a contrarian.

p.p.s. Also, well, I think you mis-speak. I think it's not said, "Don't seek". What's said is, "There is nothing to seek". That's a little different. It lets you be free to practice fully, without going "outside" of practice. It's an assurance that everything, for you, is in practice, itself. And, there is no outside of practice.
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Re: "don't seek"

Postby organizational on Tue May 16, 2017 9:58 pm

Hi Joe,

desert_woodworker wrote:Also, well, I think you mis-speak. I think it's not said, "Don't seek". What's said is, "There is nothing to seek."


It is jundo has said at here:
viewtopic.php?f=64&t=11831

jundo wrote: I simply make the point that so many of the Linji quotes below seem like dandy "don't seek, don't stop the thoughts, don't doubt, Just Sitting" instructions!


which you may want to check

so, "don't seek" seems like to be an instruction
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Re: "don't seek"

Postby desert_woodworker on Tue May 16, 2017 10:05 pm

Enver,

It "comes down to" the same thing: "Don't seek", and "There is nothing to seek". For the reasons I gave.

And you've got to forgive some people for rough paraphrasing of old texts, when trying to make some related point. Not many of us are translators, nor can read the original ancient writing. It sometimes requires some special scholarship to do that.

Anyway, let me propose the following: Since "There is nothing to seek", then, "Don't seek"! That should make perfect sense to you.

--Joe
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Re: "don't seek"

Postby Jok_Hae on Wed May 17, 2017 12:56 am

Master Ryokan may be helpful here:

As long as I don't aim,
I won't miss.
With the catalpa bow,
I shoot an arrow
toward the open sky.

:peace:
You make, you get

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Re: "don't seek"

Postby [james] on Wed May 17, 2017 3:04 am

organizational wrote:What does it mean "don't seek"

in Zen?

thanks for any replies.


To investigate the statement "don't seek" it is helpful to have some understanding of what, why, when and how we seek. If, at this time, you are seeking the meaning of "don't seek" look into the nature of your seeking ... is it a casual curiosity or a deeper questioning ... does it arise in the context of this ZFI or are there strong connections to other aspects of your life ... do you have a mental picture of what not seeking might be ...of what seeking is ... where do seeking and not seeking come from?

These questions might not be your kind of questions of course but I think it is useful to let your own inquiry (however it is expressed) percolate and saturate your seeking/non-seeking self for days, weeks, months ... no hurry. The patient, careful, caring inquiry is the Zen of it, more so than the question itself.
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Re: "don't seek"

Postby fukasetsu on Wed May 17, 2017 1:27 pm

organizational wrote:What does it mean "don't seek"

in Zen?


It points to that it is foolish to seek that to which there is no way or road to.
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Re: "don't seek"

Postby desert_woodworker on Wed May 17, 2017 2:35 pm

It's recorded that the Ch'an man, Pai-chang (Hyakujo, who is famous in koan-practice circles for his "Fox"), said:

不着不求

"No clinging, no seeking."

--Joe

[this is nice because there's no explanation, no rationale given. So nicely bland. "Just the facts, Ma'am". Just THIS is Zen Buddhism, the radical, "sudden"-path. Else, give the false-mind something to chew on and you just feed further delusion... . Not going to happen, here! This path is a path of Compassion.].
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Re: "don't seek"

Postby desert_woodworker on Wed May 17, 2017 4:23 pm

Another authentic aphorism is:

    "Don't seek, just cease to cherish opinions."
(I'd say this advice and admonition is genetically related to the experiential insight and Wisdom in Ch'an Master Seng-ts'an's poetic line,

    "The Great Way (Tao) is not difficult, for those who cease to cherish opinions",
of the Ch'an poem, Faith in the True Mind, of Seng-ts'an, the Third Ch'an Ancestor [d. 606 AD], and 30th Ancestor after Shakyamuni Buddha. Seng-ts'an begins his poem with that very line).

--Joe
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Re: "don't seek"

Postby organizational on Wed May 17, 2017 7:48 pm

a well known story:
huike hit Bodhidharma.
when he cut off his arm he got the transmission.
Then, after he became the second patriarch his head was chopped off!

I know Turkey will be punished, too.i'm sure of this.
yet don't know how and when the punishment will come?

That is to say
what i'm ONLY seeking.


:lol2:
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Re: "don't seek"

Postby desert_woodworker on Wed May 17, 2017 8:13 pm

org'l, Enver,

No, rest, relax; Huike never "hit" Bodhidharma.

Also, Huike kept his head 'til the end.

Your rumors are fortunately FALSE.

Rest assured. Sleep well.

Take good care of yourself!

--Joe

p.s. Turkey is a wonderful country, ...and has wonderful cats! I have one cat from Lake Van. And one cat from the Zoo at Ankara (well, a descendant of one of the Angora cats who were bred there when their numbers became as few as 19 individuals (!) in the early 1960s!). Turkey will not and can not be "punished". Rest easy! Turkey is great. As God is great, and Mohammad, rasul of God, is great. So my Sufi friends have taught me (in 1973-1975). :Namaste:

organizational wrote:a well known story:
huike hit Bodhidharma.
when he cut off his arm he got the transmission.
Then, after he became the second patriarch his head was chopped off!

I know Turkey will be punished, too.i'm sure of this.
yet don't know how and when the punishment will come?

That is to say
what i'm ONLY seeking.
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Re: "don't seek"

Postby organizational on Wed May 17, 2017 10:39 pm

desert_woodworker wrote:
No, rest, relax; Huike never "hit" Bodhidharma.

Also, Huike kept his head 'til the end.

Your rumors are fortunately FALSE.

Rest assured. Sleep well.

Take good care of yourself!



So, if huike did not hit bodhidharma how did his teeth get broken?

The books are lying.
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Re: "don't seek"

Postby desert_woodworker on Wed May 17, 2017 11:00 pm

org'l, Enver,

organizational wrote:So, if huike did not hit bodhidharma how did his teeth get broken?

The books are lying.

Maybe not. My grasp of "the books" may be loose. My knuckles are not white.

Whatever the case of the supposed violence between Bodhidharma and Huike, at least Huike LIVED ON to be able to transmit the Dharma to yet a new generation beyond Bodhidharma and himself. That's what really counts.

Thus, we have the seed available, in our time, in unbroken lineage, thanks to him, and MANY others.

:Namaste:

--Joe
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Re: "don't seek"

Postby organizational on Thu May 18, 2017 8:15 am

desert_woodworker wrote:
p.s. Turkey is a wonderful country, ...and has wonderful cats! I have one cat from Lake Van. And one cat from the Zoo at Ankara (well, a descendant of one of the Angora cats who were bred there when their numbers became as few as 19 individuals (!) in the early 1960s!). Turkey will not and can not be "punished". Rest easy! Turkey is great. As God is great, and Mohammad, rasul of God, is great. So my Sufi friends have taught me (in 1973-1975). :Namaste:


I read your words, about Turkey and turkish cats.

Everyone has a plan.So God has a plan too.

Please, God punish them with my hatred

This will be the justice, for me.
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Re: "don't seek"

Postby organizational on Thu May 18, 2017 12:46 pm

A donkey is a global goods so who say that it belongs to me just stumble.

Coughing is a global's thing to do so who say it just belong to me just stumble.

Culture of China is a global product who say it only belongs to me is just stumble.


org.,

ps: just wasting time
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Re: "don't seek"

Postby [james] on Thu May 18, 2017 2:59 pm

organizational wrote:ps: just wasting time


don't seek, don't waste.
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Re: "don't seek"

Postby jundo on Thu May 18, 2017 3:11 pm

Until one is without all need to seek, one cannot understand.

Without any need to seek, live gently.

Gassho, J

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Re: "don't seek"

Postby desert_woodworker on Thu May 18, 2017 3:16 pm

Enver,

organizational wrote:I read your words, about Turkey and turkish cats.

Everyone has a plan. So God has a plan too.

Please, God punish them with my hatred

I'm sorry to "set you off". I didn't know that you don't like cats! :tongueincheek:

Here's my Angora boy cat near a huge Night Blooming Cereus flower: these are blooming again now at my place.

wht_flwr_wht_cat_1024.JPG

--Joe :peace:
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Re: "don't seek"

Postby organizational on Thu May 18, 2017 4:33 pm

Hello desert,

My problem is not Turkish cats or turkish people.I delete them from the ledger.

Well, to be honest I have a question for you.

I guess it's time has come.

Can one's teacher be his enemy?

Can one say the zen patriarch huike is my enemy?

Cause, I say so.

My meditation has say so.

:daisy:
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Re: "don't seek"

Postby desert_woodworker on Thu May 18, 2017 5:27 pm

Enver,

organizational wrote:Can one say the zen patriarch huike is my enemy?

Turn the page (of your book); there are many more stories! :heya:

I'm glad you're "OK" with Turkish (Van) cats and Turkish (Angora) cats, and Turkish people; they seem great to me.
(Van kedisi; Ankara kedisi).

Ask your teacher -- or a teacher here -- about Huike.

--Joe

van_lake.jpg
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