Discussions of Zen Buddhism in all shapes and sizes.
Awakening is not an experience, it arises as this Body Buddha.... we could say it never happened and never will... but that is more like re-arranging the deck chairs on the Titanic with a time line in mind. i'll leave it there, this discussion seems a bit like our (US) election ... the debates are sure not to change anyone's mind when illusion is taken for reality.
I'd add this... my friend Oushi once said that beginners deserve the same teaching as so called-non-beginners. Settle into that, he is so right.
Not last night,
not this morning;
Melon flowers bloomed.
Linda (et al.),
Sure, and thank you; don't let yourself be drawn into anything you find uncomfortable.
Moreover, the "on-topic topic of discussion" is 'Imagination', and its observed and evident non-role in Zen Buddhist practice (and perhaps in Buddhist practice overall, except possibly for visualization practices in some schools). So, again, thanks.
Awakening, regardless, is what occurred to Shakyamuni, and what Shakyamuni experienced (the sudden opening of, and to), when he awakened under the sacred Pipal tree that morning upon seeing the Morning Star in the dawn. So, no one should say it is not an experience.
He awakened, and hence he is called "the Buddha". No awakening, no Buddha.
As our human, Original, Teacher, it's also no surprise that awakenings continue to happen within practitioners of the present day, when -- accompanied with good cooperating causes and conditions -- practitioners definitely and unequivocally experience Sudden Awakening (as in the Zen Buddhist school), and hence Emptiness, and see their original nature (kensho), and have, then, the decks clear for the spontaneous arising of prajna and karuna in seamless and spontaneous response to circumstances in (daily-) life, just as they arise. This is not fiction, and teachers and ancestors do not lie about this, and neither do I lie about it.
In recognition of this potential awakening to true nature in all beings, I bow my head, and hope that this never gets lost.
Practitioners, take heart! (see your teacher). Words are not where it's at. Strong practice,
Joe, in South Park there's a 3 part episode show called imaginationland, I assume you're not a follower of the show but it you did see it then it would make this thread so much more fun, if you're ever want to see it I'd be happy to send you the (director's cut) DVD, even if it we're only for future inside jokes on ZFI
Mijn Oude Vriend uit de woestijn begrijpt geen Nederlands. <3
Thanks!, but no. I'm happy with the thread!
Thanks, everybody... .
See the first posts here to see how well I regard imagination. It has a place, elsewhere.
It's just that in the Chan practice(s) I've learned and adopted from several transmitted teachers, it does not enter. In the thread, I have been remarking on how imagination does not enter.
As for another instance, intoxication does not enter, either. I'm just noting it. And I'm remarking on the consistency with which it does not enter, in my experience. Pretty remarkable. But as I also say, natural.
Well, we can talk about this again perhaps sometime following the end of your Chan retreat (no hurry... give the body plenty of rest after retreat), in the new year, and I can ask you then how imagination served you, or if you invoked it at all, or were encouraged to invoke it, during those seven days of dedicated Chan practice and nothing but Chan practice.
Happy trails!, on the Path,
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