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Baker's Do-zen of Zen Buddhist Practices

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Baker's Do-zen of Zen Buddhist Practices

Postby desert_woodworker on Wed Sep 02, 2015 2:29 pm

For a year or so I've mentioned in passing the "12 or 13 practices of Ch'an and Zen Buddhism". I have also from time to time referred to Zazen as "the indispensable one-thirteenth part of Zen Buddhist practice". There is synergy and catalysis in the practices.

I'll list now the practices that come to mind, from the point of view of my lay- Ch'an- and Zen Buddhist practice.

There may in fact be more than thirteen, so these are, really, the provisions of quite a generous Baker over time, indeed.
Hail!, to all True Teachers. Here is a list of practices, in near-random order, and with gratitude:

Baker's Do-zen of Zen Buddhist Practices

Precepts
Paramitas
Bodhisattva Vows
Zazen (koan / shikantaza / etc.)
Kinhin
Dokusan / Sanzen
Dana
Bowing
Prostrations / Raihai
Mudra / Shashu
Samu
Sangha-Relations
Sesshin
Teisho
Zazenkai
Chanting / Ritual / Liturgy
(receiving the) Kyosaku
Oriyoki
Jukai
Dharma-Combat
Arts (Bonsai; Ikebana; Judo; Swordsmanship; Calligraphy; Gardening; Suiseki; Robe-Sewing; Tea; etc.)


----------------------------------------
With best Greetings, and wishes,

:Namaste:,

--Joe
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Re: Baker's Do-zen of Zen Buddhist Practices

Postby Meido on Wed Sep 02, 2015 3:09 pm

Of course, anything. But for a general list of inherited practice forms, here's a few that you might want to add...

Cooking
Internal Cultivation
Study
Pilgrimage
Solitary Retreat
Mantra/Dharani

RE Oryoki, FYI this is something of a Soto-specific term. "Communal meals" might be better.

Have fun :lol2:

~ Meido
明道禅徹
The Rinzai Zen Community: http://www.rinzaizen.org
Korinji monastery [臨済宗 • 祖的山光林禅寺]: http://www.korinji.org
Madison Rinzai Zen Community/Ryugen-ji [機山龍源寺]: http://www.madisonrinzaizen.org
http://rinzaiheartland.blogspot.com
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Re: Baker's Do-zen of Zen Buddhist Practices

Postby desert_woodworker on Wed Sep 02, 2015 3:20 pm

Dear Meido Roshi,

Meido wrote:Of course, anything. But for a general list of inherited practice forms, here's a few that you might want to add...

Yes; thanks especially for "anything"! Most important, eventually, if not immediately.

Cooking
Internal Cultivation
Study
Pilgrimage
Solitary Retreat
Mantra/Dharani

Indeed, yes. And these put it beyond a DOUBLE (but doable) Baker's Do-zen. :lol2:

RE Oryoki, FYI this is something of a Soto-specific term. "Communal meals" might be better.

Right, thanks! As you see, I did little translating.

Have fun :lol2:

Yessiree, Bob. Hugh betcha. :Namaste:,

--Joe
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Re: Baker's Do-zen of Zen Buddhist Practices

Postby Gregory Wonderwheel on Wed Sep 02, 2015 7:52 pm

:party: Yes, "Party Down!" with lists.

So with any list that goes beyond the "magic" numbers of six, seven, eight or ten, I typically view them as capable of being reduced to constellations of items rather than a list of single items. In other words, the list of single "stars" can be simplified into a smaller list by relating or associating the individual items of the larger list into constellations of associated stars. This is somewhat arbitrary, just as it is with astronomical constellations, but also it is not entirely arbitrary as the associations are somewhat given by their "appearance in the sky" just as this list is an appearance in the empty mind.

(BTW, the idea of the "magic" numbers for lists is not my invention, but comes from psychological studies on how people remember lists. A list of six is considered the largest, yet easily memorable list, and seven is the size where people begin to have greater difficulty where, for example, is it is easy to remember the seven days of the week but difficult to remember the names of the seven dwarves.)

For instance, in this proposed list there are three entries, "precepts," "dana" and "paramitas," that are already in relationship as "precepts" and "dana" are already two of the six or ten (both "magic" numbers) paramitas. So in my perspective paramitas already includes 6 items that would be folded underneath that label on the list.

Simolarly, za-zen as sitting meditation or sitting zen is in the came category as kinhin walking meditation or walking zen, or other activities such as cooking zen or washing dishes zen. Zazen defined by Sixth Ancestor Huineng as a meaning that is not strictly the activity of sitting zen, would be in a different category, but when done with a zazen mind that would also include the other activities of life, so this category could possibly be placed under the 5th paramita category of zen-samadhi generally or in a separate category.

Also, the items "Bowing," "Prostrations / Raihai," and "Mudra / Shashu" seem to all be naturally associated and could be listed under a single category.

This kind of organization of the constellation categories is what seems to me to be the hard work of making lists, once the brainstorming portion of throwing everything one can think of into generating a first list.

I would like to see how people would organize this kind of list into categories related to Buddha Dharma. I imagine that some would just say, all these items could already be placed under a format of one of folds of the Eightfold Path or under one of items on list of the Ten Paramitas.

_/|\_
Gregory
Why you do not understand is because the three carts were provisional for former times, and because the One Vehicle is true for the present time. ~ Zen Master 6th Ancestor Huineng
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Re: Baker's Do-zen of Zen Buddhist Practices

Postby desert_woodworker on Wed Sep 02, 2015 8:34 pm

Gregory,

I present a single listing -- not even a list -- because they are the wonderful names and practices I have learned in 36 years' formal practice, not because there's any value in memorizing them.

But, others, feel free to pick and choose and organize as Humans are wont to do. :)

The listing is not exhaustive (even if exhausting).

My intent is to evidence that Zen Buddhist practice is more than a single-course meal, ...and of course, "to recite their lovely names". ;)

--Joe
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Re: Baker's Do-zen of Zen Buddhist Practices

Postby Gregory Wonderwheel on Wed Sep 02, 2015 8:40 pm

Yes, the recitation is endless, the Dharma gates are countless.

_/|\_
Gregory


desert_woodworker wrote:Gregory,

I present a single listing -- not even a list -- because they are the wonderful names and practices I have learned in 36 years' formal practice, not because there's any value in memorizing them.

But, others, feel free to pick and choose and organize as Humans are wont to do. :)

The listing is not exhaustive (even if exhausting).

My intent is to evidence that Zen Buddhist practice is more than a single-course meal, ...and of course, "to recite their lovely names". ;)

--Joe
Why you do not understand is because the three carts were provisional for former times, and because the One Vehicle is true for the present time. ~ Zen Master 6th Ancestor Huineng
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Re: Baker's Do-zen of Zen Buddhist Practices

Postby JessicaLeigh on Fri Sep 04, 2015 10:19 pm

I wanna engage in some dharma-combat! Sounds... fun :)
"One does not discover new lands without consenting to lose sight of the shore for a very long time." -Andrè Gide
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Re: Baker's Do-zen of Zen Buddhist Practices

Postby anka on Sat Sep 05, 2015 12:16 am

Had some dharma combat with my feline friend. He won as usual.

Cats are very good at being cats. Meanwhile we are left with a great question. What am I?

If you know the answer please do not tell me. The journey is much to enjoyable.
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Re: Baker's Do-zen of Zen Buddhist Practices

Postby Mason on Sat Sep 05, 2015 6:23 am

At Zen Mountain Monastery in Mt. Tremper, they do dharma combat 6 times a year. They've been doing it for a long time. It's pretty fantastic. You can read some of them transcribed in the book "Cave of Tigers." It's a living practice - and a powerful one.
Interconnectedness: it's like two sides of the same coin, except each side is everything in the universe - including the coin.
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Re: Baker's Do-zen of Zen Buddhist Practices

Postby chankin1937 on Tue Sep 08, 2015 11:47 am

Hello All,
Why not reduce the list to two items?
1/ Live your life.
2/ Practice zazen.
Remember what Huang po says :
As to performing the six paramitas and vast numbers of similar practices, or gaining merits as countless as the sands of the Ganges, since you are fundamentally complete in every respect, you should not try to supplement that perfection by such meaningless practices. ……. if you are attached to forms, practices and meritorious performances, your way of thinking is false and quite incompatible with the Way.
Colin
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Re: Baker's Do-zen of Zen Buddhist Practices

Postby desert_woodworker on Tue Sep 08, 2015 12:28 pm

Colin,

chankin1937 wrote: you should not try to supplement that perfection by such meaningless practices.

You misunderstand practice. Naurally, as you have not practiced. And you misunderstand "meaningless".

While a person is not yet awakened, the full panoply of traditional Zen Buddhist practices we have inherited are medicine, not supplements.

After awakening, practices and one's participation may change a bit, but they are still efficacious because ...the Three Poisons rise endlessly. Zazen is but one practice of a Baker's Do-Zen, the indispensable 1/23rd part or so, it seems.

A novice monastic said to a master who had been prostrating before a Buddha image, "Master, why don't you spit on the Buddha, why do you BOW?" The master is given to have said, "You spit, I'll bow."

Now you know what I know; and a good deal more. :lol2:

:O:

--Joe
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Re: Baker's Do-zen of Zen Buddhist Practices

Postby chankin1937 on Wed Sep 09, 2015 11:28 am

chankin1937 wrote: you should not try to supplement that perfection by such meaningless practices.


Joe wrote: You misunderstand practice. Naurally, as you have not practiced. And you misunderstand "meaningless".


Hello Joe,
Did I also misunderstand “if you are attached to forms, practices and meritorious performances, your way of thinking is false and quite incompatible with the Way.”

I am an English speaker born and bred. I get by with reading it too. Huang po was pretty clear in his condemnation of your hobby.
I’m not objecting to your behaviour. That’s your choice.
What I do object to is your insistence that those practices are indispensible to others on the middle way. I know that you can get along quite well without all but one of them.

While a person is not yet awakened, the full panoply of traditional Zen Buddhist practices we have inherited are medicine, not supplements.


Zazen is an enjoyable practice. Half an hour a day is a great stress reliever and keeps one “in touch”.

Colin
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Re: Baker's Do-zen of Zen Buddhist Practices

Postby Linda Anderson on Wed Sep 09, 2015 3:40 pm

chankin1937 wrote:Hello All,
Why not reduce the list to two items?
1/ Live your life.
2/ Practice zazen.
Remember what Huang po says :
As to performing the six paramitas and vast numbers of similar practices, or gaining merits as countless as the sands of the Ganges, since you are fundamentally complete in every respect, you should not try to supplement that perfection by such meaningless practices. ……. if you are attached to forms, practices and meritorious performances, your way of thinking is false and quite incompatible with the Way.
Colin


:)X
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Melon flowers bloomed.
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Re: Baker's Do-zen of Zen Buddhist Practices

Postby another_being on Wed Sep 09, 2015 4:12 pm

desert_woodworker wrote:Colin,

chankin1937 wrote: you should not try to supplement that perfection by such meaningless practices.

You misunderstand practice. Naurally, as you have not practiced...
--Joe


Isn't this kind of insulting and personal? I thought you guys worked this out.

:peace:
"Some people think they are enlightened, some people think they are not enlightened." -- Denko
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Re: Baker's Do-zen of Zen Buddhist Practices

Postby desert_woodworker on Wed Sep 09, 2015 6:47 pm

a_b,

Yes, the slings and arrows we do endure. None cut too deeply. So, I replied civilly and logically. But, back to your kind question:

another_being wrote:Isn't this kind of insulting and personal? I thought you guys worked this out.

If it is true, as it appears to be -- through admissions, here -- then, no, not insulting, in my half of the exchange. Thanks for seeing it as you do.

It's an attempt, through logic, to demonstrate to anyone paying attention that someone who has not practiced, and who conveniently dismisses practices, plural, with no knowledge of them and no participation in them -- which practices are held to be important to the thorough program of Zen Buddhist training, being transmitted preciously down the centuries -- is no authority on their value, nor can stand to try to serve as a competent critic as to their "meaningfulness".

The insult is the ignorant critic's dismissal of practices, and claim of "meaningless[ness]". There I agree.

Of course, anyone may dismiss anything for oneself. Doing so makes one no less ignorant, though, nor any less incompetent as a presumptive, "critic", slandering what you ignorantly dismiss. Pshaww-w... .

:Namaste:,

--Joe
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Re: Baker's Do-zen of Zen Buddhist Practices

Postby desert_woodworker on Wed Sep 09, 2015 8:28 pm

Colin,

chankin1937 wrote:What I do object to is your insistence that those practices are indispensible to others on the middle way. I know that you can get along quite well without all but one of them.

Most people "get-along" without ANY of them. But those Humans who would increase the likelihood of practicing in the direction of Awakening will of course take the practices learned from competent compassionate Zen Buddhist teachers and apply them to their purposes in their practice.

I list the practices, because they are transmitted to us by compassionate geniuses down the centuries.

I practice them, because in traditional practice, they incur synergy and catalysis among themselves, and daily-life.

"Object" away. You rail against the fundamentals of Zen Buddhist practice, you know. That's another clear seal-of-authenticity of an outer-path. Believe me, I have not at this Forum ever been talking about "getting-along".

I'll repeat for all: "Psychological adjustment is not Liberation."

Hence, a synergistic panoply of Zen Buddhist practices exists, some of them, in this thread, herein named. Hail!

--Joe
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Re: Baker's Do-zen of Zen Buddhist Practices

Postby Mason on Wed Sep 09, 2015 8:42 pm

Well, Zen is not the only path in Buddhadharma. I hope that much is clear.
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Re: Baker's Do-zen of Zen Buddhist Practices

Postby desert_woodworker on Wed Sep 09, 2015 8:54 pm

T-g.,

Thus-gone wrote:Well, Zen is not the only path in Buddhadharma. I hope that much is clear.

Note where you're typing. It's in a thread within an area named "Zen Buddhism".

I placed my post well.

There are other traditions of Buddhadharma. They, and outer-paths, are housed and treated elsewhere. I hope that is clear.

--Joe
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Re: Baker's Do-zen of Zen Buddhist Practices

Postby Linda Anderson on Thu Sep 10, 2015 1:36 am

I'm walking the line. When we say Zen Buddhist practice, it can take many forms according to the practitioner and teacher, if there is one. Generally, most agree it involves zazen and I'll stand up for zen and living life. Beyond that, we are hanging from a branch with our teeth. The blind leading the blind. No one is excluding anything as I see it, we are all free to create our own practice ... Tho we practice, it's refreshing and true to hold it as meaningless; otherwise, what are we doing and why? Colin cut right to the chase... I'd say meaninglessness and useless are the way if we hang long enough.

The image of hanging from a tree came up, but I couldn't remember the context of the koan ... here's what google brought up... commentary by my kin back in the day. :Namaste:

John Tarrant Roshi
Zazenkai
September 13, 1992, Oakland, California

This is from the Mumonkan, the koan collection. This is the
Fifth Case of that collection. It's called "Hsiang-yen: Up a
Tree".
The priest Hsiang-yen said, "It is as though you were up in
a tree, hanging from a branch with your teeth. Your hands
and feet can't touch any branch. Someone appears beneath
the tree and asked, `What is the meaning of Bodhidharma's
coming from the West?' If you do not answer, you evade your
responsibility. If you do answer, you lose your life. What
do you do?"
Wu-men has a comment here.
Even if your eloquence flows like a river, it is all in
vain. Even if you can expound cogently upon the whole body
of Buddhist literature, that too is useless. If you can
respond to this dilemma properly, you give life to those who
have been dead and kill those who have been alive. If you
can't respond, you must wait and ask Maitreya about it.
Wu-men's verse.
Hsiang-yen is just blabbing nonsense;
his poisonous intentions are without limit.
He stops up everyone's mouths,
making his whole body the eye of a demon.

Please sit comfortably.....


You can read the entire Teisho here: http://www.sacred-texts.com/bud/zen/case5trn.txt
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not this morning;
Melon flowers bloomed.
~ Bassho
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Re: Baker's Do-zen of Zen Buddhist Practices

Postby Mason on Thu Sep 10, 2015 3:29 am

desert_woodworker wrote:
I placed my post well.

There are other traditions of Buddhadharma. They, and outer-paths, are housed and treated elsewhere. I hope that is clear.

--Joe



No, you just write as if other Buddhist practice traditions did not exist.
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