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Baker's Do-zen of Zen Buddhist Practices

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Re: Baker's Do-zen of Zen Buddhist Practices

Postby Linda Anderson on Sat Sep 19, 2015 4:13 pm

I had a relationship with ritual long before I came to zen. I think they serve a purpose, indeed, they are not meaningless, and they are not for everybody.

It seems to me that the 'grind stone" aspect arises precisely when comparison and analysis are applied in a realm where they don't belong. A true ritual is not routine nor structured tho it may appear so
linda
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not this morning;
Melon flowers bloomed.
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Re: Baker's Do-zen of Zen Buddhist Practices

Postby Michaeljc on Sat Sep 19, 2015 10:32 pm

If your writings are representative of the quality available in modern day sanghas - writings that consistently contradict what the Zen Masters have passed down to us - better to stay away.
Colin


Buddhist writings are no different to the Bible in that people can cherry-pick ammunition to promote any personal agenda, and you/they do

Open the shutters and let the breeze blow in

m
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Re: Baker's Do-zen of Zen Buddhist Practices

Postby desert_woodworker on Sun Sep 20, 2015 2:44 am

Colin,

chankin1937 wrote:Then why does Huang Po tell us that, "The Buddha-essence is.....illuminating, peaceful and productive of bliss."

Because Bo''s talking about the Buddha-essence. You're not.
And why does Nagarjuna say: "Bliss consists in the cessation of all thought."

Because he really means it. Not in meditation, but in daily life.
And why is it written in the Mahaparinirvana Sutra: "All formations are impermanent, this is the law of appearing and disappearing, when both appearing and disappearing, "disappear" then the stillness is bliss.”

Practice correctly, and find out. You've not done this.
New age? When were the above quotes written?

You're a self-interested spin-doctor. You wrote stuff 35 years ago, or closer to now, I dunno. Quote all you want of historical sources. You're a million miles from home because your interpretation of texts (and clandestine texts) is blurred by myopia due to desire merely to support your errant manifesto. You espouse a New Age outer-path as a result, as others here could tell you, too.

It's just not a necessary or compelling outer-path to Zen Buddhists. :lol2:

Many of us have seen this sort of thing before. And, well, it's like the "cranks", who write us scientists about their imagined "theories" and "explanations". They say they are correct, because they take "a fresh approach", and they say they've had no "polluting" contact with Scientific education. Despite their posturing enthusiasm, all they do is make the same mistakes that other ignoramuses make, again and again. Their ignorance and total lack of experience make them prone to error, and to missing the point every time. Well, what do you expect... .

Usually, what we (like to) do is to put one "crank" in touch with another "crank", by mail, or email, or whatever they're using. And usually, as a result, we never hear from either of them again! I have no proof, but I like to imagine that they cancel each other out, in a great flash, like Matter and Anti-Matter meeting. KA-BOOM!

We need to find you a suitable pen-pal, Colin, who lives and breathes for outer-paths.

If your writings are representative of the quality available in modern day sanghas - writings that consistently contradict what the Zen Masters have passed down to us - better to stay away.

Better for you. So you have said! And so you say. Zen-places are too far away for you. you wrote, and your accessibility issues (may?) make it more difficult to travel than when you were more easily and spontaneously ambulatory. Sour grapes! :cry: But there's a Vipassana place that's close(r)? Hmm, but I can't on my reputation recommend them, because I have no experience, there. But they're probably fine people, with fine practices for those interested. I am a Ch'an and Zen Buddhist. You might roll the dice, though, there. You can always retract yourself back into your turtle-shell again if it does not suit you.

OK, take care now, y'hear,

--Joe
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Re: Baker's Do-zen of Zen Buddhist Practices

Postby desert_woodworker on Sun Sep 20, 2015 2:57 am

Michael,

Michaeljc wrote:Open the shutters and let the breeze blow in

Nice. Heavens, yes! God, yes.

Almost the Equinox!

:rbow:,

--Joe
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Re: Baker's Do-zen of Zen Buddhist Practices

Postby chankin1937 on Sun Sep 20, 2015 12:53 pm

Joe,
chankin1937 wrote:Then why does Huang Po tell us that, "The Buddha-essence is.....illuminating, peaceful and productive of bliss."


Joe wrote: Because Bo''s talking about the Buddha-essence. You're not.


Helo Joe,
You seem to have lost the plot! I was quoting him. You deny the Zen goal is bliss. You are wrong. The three quotes I posted prove that.

CH: And why does Nagarjuna say: "Bliss consists in the cessation of all thought."


Joe; Because he really means it. Not in meditation, but in daily life.


So you can live throughout the day without thinking? How ludicrous! On the other hand, there’s not much thought behind your posts.

CH; And why is it written in the Mahaparinirvana Sutra: "All formations are impermanent, this is the law of appearing and disappearing, when both appearing and disappearing, "disappear" then the stillness is bliss.”


Joe: Practice correctly, and find out. You've not done this.


How do you know that? Telepathy? :lool:

Joe: You're a self-interested spin-doctor. You wrote stuff 35 years ago, or closer to now, I dunno. Quote all you want of historical sources. You're a million miles from home because your interpretation of texts (and clandestine texts) is blurred by myopia due to desire merely to support your errant manifesto. You espouse a New Age outer-path as a result, as others here could tell you, too.


Another mindless tirade! I’m beginning to think you do post without thinking!

It's just not a necessary or compelling outer-path to Zen Buddhists.


It is the path recommended by the Patriarchs and Masters – but quite obviously not your path.
The only additional information I offer is why it works.

Your attitude is no surprise because in another post you have said there is no Buddhism and no Zen!
Your writings consistently contradict what the Zen Masters have passed down to us.
I wonder who we should believe?
Colin
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Re: Baker's Do-zen of Zen Buddhist Practices

Postby desert_woodworker on Sun Sep 20, 2015 2:43 pm

Colin,

chankin1937 wrote:I wonder who we should believe?

Believe your 3-dimensional living teacher, of whatever tradition of practice you gravitate toward. Make sure the teacher is alive, though, and living in 3 or more dimensions. Then, take to heart the practices taught (see the OP, e.g., for some named Zen Buddhist examples of the present-day, and old-times). Yes, make a beginning with the teacher and sangha, and continue. When you awaken, then "belief" is superfluous, and does not arise. Only Wisdom and Compassion arises. I offer these words for all reading. It's pretty general encouragement.

rgds,

--Joe
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Re: Baker's Do-zen of Zen Buddhist Practices

Postby HePo on Sat Sep 26, 2015 4:00 pm

Joe wrote:

This reminds me of the "admissions-criteria" tests, at Zen Buddhist monasteries, in the old-country (countries), where postulants had to prove (or indeed discover) their dedication to the aims and value of Zen Practice before they were even allowed indoors, and even then, after three days outdoors, once inside, had to sit the equivalent of a 5-day sesshin, or so, in a separate room together, to further demonstrate their readiness for the rigors of Zen Buddhist practice, and their un-brittle resilience and tenacity.


In Soto zen this "admissions-criteria test" is called tangaryo and if you google the word, you'll see that it is not uncommon in the West.

The ones i did were similar to a sesshin - however without kinhin, teisho, etc.,
sitting starting from waking up till going back to sleep and formal (on the tan) oryoki meals.

In Rinzai it is called tangazume.
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Re: Baker's Do-zen of Zen Buddhist Practices

Postby Meido on Sat Sep 26, 2015 4:55 pm

HePo wrote:In Rinzai it is called tangazume.


More precisely, two barriers:

Niwazume - one or more days spent outside, unmoving and petitioning for entrance, followed by,

Tangaryo - 2-3 days of solitary sitting inside while being observed.

I have not heard that any Rinzai monasteries in the West are using the practice of niwazume, but would appreciate knowing if anyone else has...

Meido
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Re: Baker's Do-zen of Zen Buddhist Practices

Postby HePo on Sat Sep 26, 2015 10:39 pm

Meido wrote:
HePo wrote:
In Rinzai it is called tangazume.


More precisely, two barriers:

Niwazume - one or more days spent outside, unmoving and petitioning for entrance, followed by,

Tangaryo - 2-3 days of solitary sitting inside while being observed.

I have not heard of any Rinzai monasteries in the West requiring niwazume, but would appreciate knowing if anyone else has...

Meido

hello Meido,

thanks for your "Rinzai Zen" input

As i have a little time off (hurt both knees) i did some research on the Sotoshu and Zen.Rinnou sites and Baroni's Illustrated Encyclopedia of Zen Buddhism.

- Sotoshu:
overnight quarters -(tanga ryō 旦過寮, tanga 旦過)
"Quarters" (ryō 寮) for "staying over until dawn" (tanga 旦過). Facilities for housing wandering monks who are not registered as regular residents in a monastery.

- Zen.Rinnou:
Tangazume - 旦過詰
The period in which a postulant at a Zen monastery must sit alone in a small room (called the tangaryo) facing the wall, usually for a period of five days. See also niwazume.

Niwazume - 庭詰
The period in which a postulant at a Zen monastery must sit in the monastery entrance hall (genkan) in a bowing posture, asking for admission, usually for a period of two days. See also tangazume.


- Baroni's:
Tanga
Literally meaning to pass the night, the term denotes the practice of traveling monks taking lodging for a single night at a time at various monasteries along their route. Zen monasteries maintain a guest hall, administrated by the guest prefect (J. shika), for the sake of offering
such lodging. Newly admitted trainees also spend a period of time in the guest hall. See also tanga zume.

Tanga Zume
A probationary period lasting a few days, when a new Zen postulant is first accepted by a monastery for training. During the tanga zume, the trainee is not yet admitted into the monastery proper to practice with the rest of the assembly. For a few days, the postulant
resides alone in a guest hall specifically designed and maintained for temporary lodging. The term tanga literally means “to pass the night” and is the word used for the practice of traveling
monks stopping at a temple for a night’s lodging in the guest room. Before being admitted to the monastery for the tanga zume, the trainee undergoes another initial waiting period, known as the niwa zume. During that period of time, the trainee is left waiting in the entryway. During the three to seven days of the tanga zume probation, the postulant remains alone, passing the days in quiet meditation, isolated from other monks. The probation period is a further test of the postulant’s determination to practice Zen. It provides the administrator of the temple an opportunity to observe the candidate and evaluate his or her suitability to monastic life. At the
end of the probation period, the postulant is given formal permission to enter the monastery and instructed in the rules of the monastic community.

Suzuki, Daisetz Teitaro. The Training of
the Zen Buddhist Monk. New York:
Globe Press Books, 1991


Niwa Zume
Waiting period endured by new Zen trainees (unsui) before they are admitted to a Zen monastery for formal training. The term means to be left waiting at the entry gate (genkan), which is where the newcomer remains until the request for entry is accepted. Zen postulants
formally request permission to enter a monastery for practice, but the initial request is always refused as a matter of form. The postulant then waits for a period of one to several days as a sign of his or her determination to practice Zen. Throughout the waiting period, the postulant sits at the edge of the raised platform in the entryway, with head bowed down over his or her baggage and hands held together in supplication. The practice is intended to test the resolve of trainees.
The Niwa Zume is a stylized version of traditional practices. Early Zen literature is filled with stories of masters testing the sincerity and determination of would-be disciples. Perhaps the most famous is the story of the Second Patriarch Hui-k’o (487–593), who stood patiently in the snow for several days awaiting recognition from Bodhidharma, the first patriarch. Finally, Hui-k’o cut off his arm with a sharp knife and presented it to Bodhidharma as a symbol of his deep commitment to the practice of Zen.

Suzuki, Daisetz Teitaro. The Training of
the Zen Buddhist Monk. New York:
Globe Press Books, 1991.


It would seem that in both Jap. Soto Zen and Jap. Rinzai Zen tanga ryo has a similar meaning "guest room".
That made me wonder if the way Tangaryo is used in Soto Zen in the west (meaning "admissions test") is a western invention and if there is an actual word in Japanese (Soto Zen) that has the meaning we seem to have given to it in the west.

Of course, i could have overlooked something.

- Japanese Rinzai Zen Buddhism: Myoshinji, a Living Religion by Jorn Borup might be an interesting read.
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Re: Baker's Do-zen of Zen Buddhist Practices

Postby Meido on Sat Sep 26, 2015 11:06 pm

Hi HePo,

Thanks for those.

HePo wrote:It would seem that in both Jap. Soto Zen and Jap. Rinzai Zen tanga ryo has a similar meaning "guest room".
That made me wonder if the way Tangaryo is used in Soto Zen in the west (meaning "admissions test") is a western invention and if there is an actual word in Japanese (Soto Zen) that has the meaning we seem to have given to it in the west.

Of course, i could have overlooked something.

- Japanese Rinzai Zen Buddhism: Myoshinji, a Living Religion by Jorn Borup might be an interesting read.


I'm sadly not very knowledgeable when it comes to the Soto flavor of things. I have wondered, though, if one sometimes finds in the different Soto lines (as in Rinzai ones) variations in "house style", perhaps including nomenclature. The usage I know best is just what comes from my teacher, who was an unsui at Tenryuji. He reported that niwazume for him lasted a day, and his time sitting in the tangaryo was 2 days if I recall correctly.

The Myoshinji book is indeed a good read.

~ Meido
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Re: Baker's Do-zen of Zen Buddhist Practices

Postby desert_woodworker on Sat Mar 04, 2017 1:20 am

Josh,

Josham wrote:Can it only be zazen, or are there other kinds of practice?

Try to read from page 1 of this thread, Josh. Ask anyone about any of the practices that interest you (or research them). They make best sense when practiced, though (with teacher and sangha), as you'll see if you begin practice.

rds,

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Re: Baker's Do-zen of Zen Buddhist Practices

Postby jundo on Sat Mar 04, 2017 2:19 pm

I just want to say that these are excellent lists, and I concur in the value ...

Precepts
Paramitas
Bodhisattva Vows
Zazen ...
Kinhin
Dokusan / Sanzen
Dana
Bowing
Prostrations / Raihai
Mudra / Shashu
Samu
Sangha-Relations
Sesshin
Teisho
Zazenkai
Chanting / Ritual / Liturgy
...
Oriyoki
Jukai
...
Arts (Bonsai; Ikebana; Judo; Swordsmanship; Calligraphy; Gardening; Suiseki; Robe-Sewing; Tea; etc.)

...

Cooking
Internal Cultivation
Study
Pilgrimage
Solitary Retreat
...


Some do overlap and some [such as Koan Introspection Zazen and "Dharma Combat"] are not our way in the corner of Soto Zen where I sit, so I have no comment but I am sure that they are fine practices for somebody. My Lineage rejects the Kyosaku as a semi-violent anachronism, but it may be good for somebody. I hesitate at "Dharani" because, while a powerful practice that some find great value in, they sometimes have the aspect of superstition and magic spell that perhaps is best avoided. We don't recite them at Treeleaf.

The Practices on the list [even Zazen] may not be for everyone, but they are wonderful and rich practices which should not be run from either {even Dharani or the Kyosaku, which I gladly participate in when visiting someone else's temple, dropping my personal likes and dislikes]. Oryoki eating, for example, is a rewarding and life changing Practice of grateful, sacred and mindful eating in which the self is poured and found again. Bowing is raising up in praise the Buddha and the whole world (not two, by the way) as they raise you (not two, by the way). Zazen in motion.

I would merely add a list of countless other daily rituals that are just as sacred and rich to those with Wise Eye: Opening a door, changing a diaper, scratching the nose, farting, smiling and crying, fixing a broken window, stapling papers, avoiding anger at the office and excess desire in the store, doing one's taxes, petting the cat, stubbing the toe, helping someone in need ... in other words, everything and anything with the right heart and mind. When one changes a diaper, it is the whole of the universe changing a diaper in that moment (and the whole of the diaper changing a universe), and so for all the rest. Do not leave any bit of life off this list!

I sit to realize (in the bones) and realize (make real in life) such fact.

Gassho, Jundo

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Re: Baker's Do-zen of Zen Buddhist Practices

Postby Avisitor on Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:15 am

desert_woodworker wrote:Josh,

Josham wrote:Can it only be zazen, or are there other kinds of practice?

Try to read from page 1 of this thread, Josh. Ask anyone about any of the practices that interest you (or research them). They make best sense when practiced, though (with teacher and sangha), as you'll see if you begin practice.

rds,

--Joe

From what I have read, I am surely disappointed that there was not more discussion about such practices rather than just a list
And the vexations that were brought up through the interactions of one and the thread starter only showed less tolerance and more prejudice
Something that I thought was part of sloughing off the self to find this awaken state that was so often spoken of
To find true understanding and compassion???

But, what do I know? Opinions are like asses ... every one has one hanging out the back side ... :coffee:
(well, almost everyone ... lol)
Disclaimer: There is no intent to be offensive in my posts. None was intended and none should be interpreted as such.
Sorry, got a message that I was not being PC.
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Re: Baker's Do-zen of Zen Buddhist Practices

Postby lobster on Thu Mar 09, 2017 7:29 am

jundo wrote:When one changes a diaper, it is the whole of the universe changing a diaper in that moment (and the whole of the diaper changing a universe), and so for all the rest. Do not leave any bit of life off this list!


It is amazing how something so small can produce so much ... :lol2:
In a similar way the expansion of the endless listing and its contraction to one breath or less, one thought or none etc is sure to keep us Boddhisatva'd ... :O:
For many it is what is useful to add and subtract. For example the listing line that leads to ninjas :ninja: is no more a killing than a birth. A skilful line that slices our kindness can evoke a whole lineage of tree huggers ... :hugs:
The wisdom is adding chocolate to the list :hide: but giving it away as unnecessary :ghug:
In other words, lists help others remember not to leave the infinite dozen of thirteen or less ... :lool:
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Re: Baker's Do-zen of Zen Buddhist Practices

Postby jundo on Thu Mar 09, 2017 3:39 pm

Avisitor wrote:From what I have read, I am surely disappointed that there was not more discussion about such practices rather than just a list


Let me try to disappoint more. :)

I believe in reforming and modernizing many old traditions, leaving aside many superstitions and some old dusty customs. But some old things are worthwhile ... powerful and beautiful practices ... even though old or Japanesey or Chinesey or whatever.

Precepts


Guide one to a healthy, gentle life helpful to self and others (self-others not two, by the way) avoiding excess desire, anger, divisive thinking and like harmful and negative behavior in a way also supportive of Zazen and all the rest of life.

Paramitas


Likewise for the Paramitas such as (how they are phrased and list content varies somewhat) generosity, ethical behavior, patience and tolerance, energy and diligence, balance, self-reflection, wisdom, equanimity, restraint of excess desires ... all makes for a fruitful life and a fruitful practice (not two, by the way)

Bodhisattva Vows


Ditto for these Vows to keep on aiding the "sentient beings" and to keep on keeping on with realizing the Way. Like wedding vows or any promise to oneself and others, sometimes it is good to vow.

Zazen ...


Hub of the wheel.

Kinhin


One of the few times in life we move forward, but free of destination ... just being here now here now here ...

We spend so much of our day running and walking to "get someplace", we usually don't know any other way to walk.

Dokusan / Sanzen


Helpful to consult and get pointers from experienced teachers (and fellow practitioners too).

Dana


A Paramita, but this is a special reminder to support others and to give.

Bowing/Prostrations / Raihai


A practice of humility and gratitude that many of us, in our western pride, resist ... an act whereby as we raise up the Buddha and the whole world (not two, by the way) they simulatenously raise up you (not two, by the way)

Mudra / Shashu


I am not one for particular magic powers attributed to a particular mudra, but there is a certain grace and balance of the entire body ... including the hands ... that is supportive of this practice in which body-mind are not two. Anyway, gotta do something with one's hands, and Shashu is better than jamming your hands in your pockets I suppose.

Samu


Work, but as Zazen ... striving to attain, but simultaneously with nothing to attain ... cleaning, yet simultaneously realizing that Buddha Eye knows both clean and grime as Pure from the start ... working toward a goal, yet all goals dropped away (goals and no goals, not two) ...

Sangha-Relations


Good to get along with one's fellows, supporting each other on the way, dropping or managing frustrations and annoyances.

Sesshin


Zazen is not a matter of time, not of long or short ... and sometimes we sit a bit longer in order to realize that fact.

Teisho


A good Talk by some wise guy can be helpful, and can turn us.

Zazenkai


See "Sesshin", above. Sometimes sitting alone is fine, but there is a certain strength and mutual support in sitting together and Chanting in voices joined.

Chanting


Most of the Chants (Heart Sutra, Harmony of Relative & Absolute, Four Vows ... ) are actually statements of Zen Buddhist and Mahayana philosophy and viewpoints. The Heart Sutra and "Harmony of Relative & Absolute", for example, are basic statements of Emptiness, the interidentity of such to this world of apparent form in which we live, and the role of the human mind in creating such interidentity. (It is not that Zen is free of all philosophizing and doctrines and viewpoints, but merely that our philosophy and often mindbending viewpoints are not are usual ways of seeing and experiencing the world and who we are, and we know when to think about things ... and when to put the words down and not to!) Monks of old understood this basic philosophy and these doctrines, engraving them in their bones, before they "burned the books." So, I usually recommend folks to read and understand what is written there, and then and only then, to forget about what the words mean and pour oneself into the sound ... ... ...

Ritual / Liturgy


I recently heard even some atheists realize that they needed some ceremonies in their movement. From weddings to graduations, sometimes the dance of joined movement touches the heart and conveys meaning ... and also, it is a dance in which we can pour ourselves to find Self again.

Oriyoki


A powerful Practice of grateful, sacred and mindful eating in which the self is poured and found again. The antidote to the fast food drive thru. ;)

Jukai


Like a graduation or wedding ceremony, it just marks a transition in life. I tell folks that the ceremony itself works no magic, but is a celebration of a commitment to undertake the Precepts, study and follow this way, and jump in the boat with all the other Zen folks who have committed to do so through the centuries.

Arts (Bonsai; Ikebana; Judo; Swordsmanship; Calligraphy; Gardening; Suiseki; Robe-Sewing; Tea; Cooking etc.)


Like Samu and Oryoki, all arts in which one can pour the self, all body-mind, to find again. In our Sangha, a lot of folks undertake Rakusu and Kesa sewing which, if you ask me, is like all life ... stitch by stitch, just this stitch and this, never perfect yet sincerely trying to do one's best, mistakes made so we try to fix what we can ...

Study


In this "way beyond words and letters", most of the old masters would study Mahayana and Zen doctribes ,,, but knew when to put the books down. They would burn the books, but with the lessons engraved in the bones. They would think, but were not prisoners of thought, knew how to "see through" thoughts and when to stop all the thinking.

Pilgrimage


Sometimes it is good to visit others, but no place to go.

Solitary Retreat


Sometimes it is good to be with others, sometimes it is good to be just with the "me myself & i"

All of life is Practice, so need I explain the value of that? :Namaste:

Gassho, J

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Re: Baker's Do-zen of Zen Buddhist Practices

Postby organizational on Thu Mar 09, 2017 5:57 pm

Gassho J

Thanks for the explanations.But I've one contest and one question.

My contest is about Bodhisattva Vows;

Bodhisattva Vows



You said; "It is like wedding vows or any promise to oneself and others.."

Here I believe it is different than a wedding bow.It should be more sacred that I think.However I know that I don't know the whole inside of the vow.

And my question is about Sangha;

Sangha


Here at the forum, we are all from the different side of the world not even that we all have different origins in different religions and not only that here many sections of buddhism practioners and even visitors are together.

Are we a Sangha?

What does it need to be a sangha?What are the rules I mean?

rgrds,
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Re: Baker's Do-zen of Zen Buddhist Practices

Postby jundo on Thu Mar 09, 2017 6:26 pm

organizational wrote:

You said; "It is like wedding vows or any promise to oneself and others.."

Here I believe it is different than a wedding bow.It should be more sacred that I think.


My wife, the bodhisattva in my house, would disagree that wedding vow is less sacred than bodhisattva vow. :)


Here at the forum, we are all from the different side of the world not even that we all have different origins in different religions and not only that here many sections of buddhism practioners and even visitors are together.

Are we a Sangha?

What does it need to be a sangha?What are the rules I mean?


The whole universe (and whatever is beyond that) is the Sangha of the whole universe (and whatever).

All Buddhists are the Sangha of All Buddhists.

However, if you mean specifically "a group of Buddhist practitioners who get together to practice their Buddhist practice together" then maybe not by your description. No.

Anyway, it is only a word. Not so important what you call this place. Word is just a word.

Gassho, J

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Re: Baker's Do-zen of Zen Buddhist Practices

Postby organizational on Thu Mar 09, 2017 7:03 pm

Gassho, J
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Re: Baker's Do-zen of Zen Buddhist Practices

Postby organizational on Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:15 pm

from my zazenkai : )

We are all dwelling in according to our each of own Culture, view of life, surroundings, perception, idea, consciousness, conception, artificial intelligence, mutual understanding, judicial conception, perspective etc.
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Re: Baker's Do-zen of Zen Buddhist Practices

Postby desert_woodworker on Tue Mar 14, 2017 12:03 am

Av,

Wishes for the final week of Winter.

Avisitor wrote:From what I have read, I am surely disappointed...

Do you mean "sorely" disappointed? Well, OUCH! for you, in either case. :PP:

Avisitor wrote:From what I have read, I am surely disappointed that there was not more discussion about such practices rather than just a list.

Don't blame me. :) I only started the thread, and my purposes in starting it were thoroughly and completely satisfied. The thread had a history, and was instigated by my concern to inform a badgering member (now banned, banished or vanished) that there is much more to Zen Buddhist practice than what he used to call "meditation", in his errant manifesto.

Whatever's missing from this thread in your opinion, feel free to try to supply it.

Or start a new thread to accomplish your ends.

best, :lol2:

--Joe

Avisitor wrote:And the vexations that were brought up through the interactions of one and the thread starter only showed less tolerance and more prejudice

Yup, the feller just had no concept of reality when it came to what constitutes actual Zen Buddhist practice. Thanks!

--Joe
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