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Letting go of the ego

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Re: Letting go of the ego

Postby desert_woodworker on Tue Mar 10, 2015 3:53 am

L.,

NEITHER of us was THERE. Thus... . :lol2:

(I naturally discount all "certainties").

--Joe

Linda Anderson wrote:
desert_woodworker wrote:Dear Linda,

It's categorical. And directed at practitioners, who are/were THERE. Were you there? :lol2: --Joe

ps I'm HERE. Lucky ME.

Linda Anderson wrote:Joe, I'm here, I don't need to be there. So, from here, they said it quite clearly... it's not categorical


well, you are are thin ice.... you weren't there either. a case of global warming?
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Re: Letting go of the ego

Postby Linda Anderson on Tue Mar 10, 2015 3:56 am

desert_woodworker wrote:L.,

NEITHER of us was THERE. Thus... . :lol2:

(I naturally discount all "certainties").

--Joe

Linda Anderson wrote:
desert_woodworker wrote:Dear Linda,

It's categorical. And directed at practitioners, who are/were THERE. Were you there? :lol2: --Joe

ps I'm HERE. Lucky ME.

Linda Anderson wrote:Joe, I'm here, I don't need to be there. So, from here, they said it quite clearly... it's not categorical


well, you are are thin ice.... you weren't there either. a case of global warming?


not giving up Joe... I am here and I saw 4 zen teachers speak of this... frankly, I don't like the ego talk, but it is a beginner's consideration... thus, I say essentially and skillful means.

besides, I've seen worse in dharma talks, sorry
Not last night,
not this morning;
Melon flowers bloomed.
~ Bassho
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Re: Letting go of the ego

Postby desert_woodworker on Tue Mar 10, 2015 4:07 am

Linda,

Yup. Worse is always available.

Sitting on a half-way OK cushion,

--Joe

Linda Anderson wrote:besides, I've seen worse in dharma talks, sorry
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Re: Letting go of the ego

Postby Linda Anderson on Tue Mar 10, 2015 4:37 am

Ani,
here's another way to stage it... good hearts and many zen teachers will simply leave it at this: "not knowing is most intimate"

that says more than any word like e-g-o. it's that wiff that makes my mouth water

btw, that was my first encounter with zen. I could have stopped there. oh, well, I wouldn't know you all and it's sure been fun.
Not last night,
not this morning;
Melon flowers bloomed.
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Re: Letting go of the ego

Postby fukasetsu on Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:17 pm

partofit22 wrote:
fukasetsu wrote:one cannot use mind to get something from mind


I don't understand ..


Can a fingertip touch itself, can a blade cut itself, can you perceive perception or think thoughts?

It's like moving about in an attempt to be still.

Furthermore your own mind is insubstantial like the empty sky, how could one get or lose anything from it (apart from one's imagination)
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Re: Letting go of the ego

Postby MattJ on Tue Mar 10, 2015 2:05 pm

Why not just ask Meido directly? He is always open for discussion.
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Re: Letting go of the ego

Postby Avisitor on Tue Mar 10, 2015 2:25 pm

Don't they say teach according to how the student can understand??
So, if one is reading about the way others learn and becomes stuck upon the words
Then isn't one looking at the finger instead of where the finger is pointing??

I like the way DW put ..
It's not done as an act of "will" (!), however, and comes about only as a result of correct practice (involving teacher and sangha).

And then, is maintained by further, regular practice, after the "forgetting" or "Great Cessation".
Disclaimer: There is no intent to be offensive in my posts. None was intended and none should be interpreted as such.
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Re: Letting go of the ego

Postby desert_woodworker on Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:21 pm

Linda,

Well done!, mentioning that you could have stopped at hearing, "not knowing is most intimate". But, yes, then there would be folks you hadn't met or interacted with.

I really feel that a good (large) part of zen training is enjoying the company of the others we are with.

And it seems that the Zen tradition has always emphasized practicing together.

--Joe

ps (what good luck, to find such a Way).
Linda Anderson wrote:btw, that was my first encounter with zen. I could have stopped there. oh, well, I wouldn't know you all and it's sure been fun.
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Re: Letting go of the ego

Postby desert_woodworker on Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:32 pm

Linda,

They might have spoken of it, but I wonder what on earth they had in mind? Perhaps the mention was some sort of expedient? (as you say).

In any case, it's clear that there is no practice of "dissolving or killing" the ego. That's what counts, in a tradition of practice that involves practice. Practices are focused otherwise. And only about 1/13th of all the practices is zazen. When we do dishes, we're not killing the ego, ...although, it might be dissolving slightly in the sudsy water. :tongueincheek:

--Joe
Linda Anderson wrote:not giving up Joe... I am here and I saw 4 zen teachers speak of this... frankly, I don't like the ego talk, but it is a beginner's consideration... thus, I say essentially and skillful means.
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Re: Letting go of the ego

Postby Linda Anderson on Tue Mar 10, 2015 6:57 pm

desert_woodworker wrote:Linda,

They might have spoken of it, but I wonder what on earth they had in mind? Perhaps the mention was some sort of expedient? (as you say).

In any case, it's clear that there is no practice of "dissolving or killing" the ego. That's what counts, in a tradition of practice that involves practice. Practices are focused otherwise. And only about 1/13th of all the practices is zazen. When we do dishes, we're not killing the ego, ...although, it might be dissolving slightly in the sudsy water. :tongueincheek:

--Joe
Linda Anderson wrote:not giving up Joe... I am here and I saw 4 zen teachers speak of this... frankly, I don't like the ego talk, but it is a beginner's consideration... thus, I say essentially and skillful means.


yes dear, now do the dishes! very good point, there is no practice killing the ego... I've also been thinking that I don't care to talk much about ego, even suffering, bec they are a bit removed from the bodymind... and seem only to reify things... rehearses samsara. (look at how cleverly I can gossip about my ego, kind of thingy) Actions and experience are one thing, rehearsing samsara is another. And, I particularly dislike having other ppl misinterpret my samsara. :blush:

Ani's question was simply, do zen teachers use such words, he answered his own question... the ones noted did. some do, some don't... as above
linda
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Re: Letting go of the ego

Postby fukasetsu on Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:26 pm

ego, meheshego, my and thine-go "mr. gone", ego still functions :PP:
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Re: Letting go of the ego

Postby Linda Anderson on Wed Mar 11, 2015 3:32 am

she sure is the one driving the car!
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Re: Letting go of the ego

Postby Michaeljc on Wed Mar 11, 2015 4:21 am

Allow practice to deal with the issue of ego - as it surely will, in its own time and own way
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Re: Letting go of the ego

Postby Linda Anderson on Wed Mar 11, 2015 5:26 am

Michaeljc wrote:Allow practice to deal with the issue of ego - as it surely will, in its own time and own way

:rbow:

and :lol2:

wonderful Michael!
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Melon flowers bloomed.
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Re: Letting go of the ego

Postby Chrisd on Wed Mar 11, 2015 8:45 am

Michaeljc wrote:Allow practice to deal with the issue of ego - as it surely will, in its own time and own way


:Namaste:
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Re: Letting go of the ego

Postby fukasetsu on Thu Mar 12, 2015 1:14 pm

Linda Anderson wrote:here's another way to stage it... good hearts and many zen teachers will simply leave it at this: "not knowing is most intimate"

That's because 'knowing' only appears due to ignorance.

that says more than any word like e-g-o.


I won't preach what I don't practise, especially since you allowed me to have my "Netherlands" :)
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Re: Letting go of the ego

Postby desert_woodworker on Thu Mar 12, 2015 2:36 pm

Michael,

Yup; that's what we're talkin' about.

:)X

--Joe

ps (granted, other Wisdom-traditions besides Zen Buddhism have their own logic and progress when it comes to most matters. May they do so! Zen Buddhism has its ways, too. Especially when it comes to expedients, and expedience. Kudos, --J.).

Michaeljc wrote:Allow practice to deal with the issue of ego - as it surely will, in its own time and own way
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Re: Letting go of the ego

Postby another_being on Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:21 pm

I would say that this "letting go" is another way of advising to not cling to ego. Seen for what it is, ego loses its stature.
"Some people think they are enlightened, some people think they are not enlightened." -- Denko
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Re: Letting go of the ego

Postby desert_woodworker on Thu Mar 12, 2015 10:35 pm

ab,

another_being wrote:I would say that this "letting go" is another way of advising to not cling to ego. Seen for what it is, ego loses its stature.


Well, I think that's undeniable.

(except if one is an "egotist", and thinks the ego is grand!).

But, unless one works effectively on correct practice, the "stature" of ego is bound to oscillate, between losses and gains of preeminence.

It may do so anyway, even with correct practice and guidance, but then it can be hoped that its resurgences of preeminence will be weaker and shorter as time (and practice) goes on. Like a stone, skipping on water -- after lowering and shortening skips -- eventually disappearing! ...back into the deep.

--Joe
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Re: Letting go of the ego

Postby Herbie on Fri Mar 13, 2015 8:51 am

I have looked and I have looked but cannot find an ego :lol2:
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