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Letting go of the ego

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Re: Letting go of the ego

Postby Chrisd on Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:56 pm

Yeah these are just my farts youknow. Sometimes I cough, sometimes I write something down.
Maybe someone will benefit in a smallest of ways.
:peace:
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Re: Letting go of the ego

Postby fukasetsu on Tue Mar 17, 2015 3:01 pm

I learned a great deal from you, more then you could imagine :heya:
Differences are never in opposition.
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Re: Letting go of the ego

Postby Chrisd on Tue Mar 17, 2015 3:15 pm

fukasetsu wrote:I learned a great deal from you, more then you could imagine :heya:


you're wonderful
:Namaste: :heya:
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Re: Letting go of the ego

Postby fukasetsu on Tue Mar 17, 2015 4:34 pm

How meritious, may your kindness benefit all beings! Image :peace:
Differences are never in opposition.
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Re: Letting go of the ego

Postby desert_woodworker on Tue Mar 17, 2015 7:58 pm

Chris,

Of course that's right. Just NOT in this case. From my POV, with Avisitor.

And, obviously I want him to continue breathing. You? --Joe ;)

ps not my bro; my meditation-master. I've been informal with him, but only in private; and that, too, was formal as can be (e.g., especially when it came to giving each other beatings)

Chrisd wrote:
On the other hand, being sorry and repenting in whatever small way is possible is a way of giving and opening up from your prev. position so you're free to move forward again. From your bro Sheng Yen:
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Re: Letting go of the ego

Postby Chrisd on Tue Mar 17, 2015 8:01 pm

:) sure thing Joe.
I'm not big on formality as you may have noticed so I'll just stick with my bro's :daisy:
To each his own?
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Re: Letting go of the ego

Postby desert_woodworker on Tue Mar 17, 2015 8:02 pm

Chris,

To each his zone. --Joe

Chrisd wrote:To each his own?
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Re: Letting go of the ego

Postby Avisitor on Thu Mar 19, 2015 9:08 pm

Doesn't the title kinda conflict with itself??
I mean who is it that does the letting go??
An ego can't let go of itself??
Can it??

Catch 22 anyone??

Edit: if one is trying to awaken then how can that be done when the one who is trying isn't the one who experiences such things
The thoughts and actions can never bring about the results one is looking for
It can't be forced.
So, there are no enlightened beings ... only enlightened activity ... hahahaha :)X
Disclaimer: There is no intent to be offensive in my posts. None was intended and none should be interpreted as such.
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Re: Letting go of the ego

Postby desert_woodworker on Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:42 pm

aV,

This too is one reason why I write that there is no method in Zen Buddhist practice which is aimed at "killing" or destroying ego, or a self, which someone asked about. Practice methods and vows instead address waking up, and, in Mahayana, saving all beings.

Some say that not only are there no enlightened BEINGS, but there are no enlightened ACTIONS, either. They say that what there irrefutably are, however, are enlightenment EXPERIENCES, and I don't disagree. But I'd call them "awakening" experiences. Shakyamuni said he is AWAKE.

--Joe

Avisitor wrote:So, there are no enlightened beings ... only enlightened activity ... hahahaha
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Re: Letting go of the ego

Postby Avisitor on Fri Mar 20, 2015 9:06 pm

desert_woodworker wrote:This too is one reason why I write that there is no method in Zen Buddhist practice which is aimed at "killing" or destroying ego, or a self, which someone asked about.

Others have said something to the effect of ...
cease all conscious mental activity
Or stopping thoughts
Or there needs to be no self
It just seems to be a false notion that any of those actions or inactions could ever possibly lead to an awakening experience
I don't mean to say that those aren't a condition of the awakening experience
Just that by itself those things won't lead to awakening ... so no amount of polishing the roof tile will ever turn it into a mirror

:heya:

Yeah, yeah, shut up and get back on the cushion ... will do. :EEK:
Disclaimer: There is no intent to be offensive in my posts. None was intended and none should be interpreted as such.
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Re: Letting go of the ego

Postby desert_woodworker on Fri Mar 20, 2015 9:19 pm

aV,

Yes, but that's just a wished-for EFFECT, a RESULT, that some unnecessarily express, or express "for effect". It is NOT a method. Not a method of Zen Buddhist practice. --Joe

Avisitor wrote:
Others have said something to the effect of ...
cease all conscious mental activity
Or stopping thoughts
Or there needs to be no self

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Re: Letting go of the ego

Postby organizational on Sun Feb 26, 2017 10:32 pm

Letting go of the ego

This thread is a classical one

May this thread be go on

Any new addition?
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Re: Letting go of the ego

Postby Ted Biringer on Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:33 am

organizational wrote:Letting go of the ego

This thread is a classical one

May this thread be go on

Any new addition?


Thanks - sure, here a few expressions from Dogen on the topic at hand:

When we see through, piercing to the Truth, we root out the self.
Shōbōgenzō,Keisei Sanshoku (Translated by Hubert Nearman)

[Nagarjuna] says, "If you want to realize the buddha-nature, you must first get rid of selfish pride."
Shōbōgenzō Bussho (Translated by Gudo Nishijima & Mike Cross)

[Commenting on Nagarjuna's words, Dogen writes] The Venerable One has preached the buddha-nature for others far and wide, innumerable times, and now we have quoted just one such example. "If you want to realize the buddha-nature, you must first get rid of selfish pride." We should intuit and affirm the point of this preaching without fail. It is not that there is no realization; realization is just "getting rid of selfish pride." "Selfishness" is not of only one kind. "Pride" too has many varieties. Methods of "getting rid" also may be of myriad diversity, but they are all "realization of the buddha-nature," which we should learn as realization through the eyeballs and seeing with the eyes.
Shōbōgenzō Bussho (Translated by Gudo Nishijima & Mike Cross)

But once he heard the Dharma, he held his filial bonds to be less binding and put his false sense of self out of his mind. This happened because the body and mind of someone who has wisdom is already something that does not belong to any personal self.
Shōbōgenzō,Immo (Translated by Hubert Nearman)

Manifesting sympathy means not making differences, not treating yourself as different and not treating others as different. For instance, the Tathagata was a human being just like other human beings. From His being the same as those in the human world, we know that He must have been the same as those in any other world. When we really understand what manifesting sympathy means, we will see that self and other are one and the same.
Shōbōgenzō,Bodaisatta Shishōbō (Translated by Hubert Nearman)

Where have the red faces [of our youth] gone? When we look for them, they have vanished without a trace. When we reflect carefully, there are many things in the past that we will never meet again. The sincere mind, too, does not stop, but goes and comes mo ment by moment. Although the state of sincerity does exist, it is not something that lingers in the vicinity of the personal self. Even so, there is something that, in the limitlessness, establishes the [bodhi-]mind. Once this mind is established, abandoning our former playthings we hope to hear what we have not heard before and we seek to experience what we have not experienced before: this is not solely of our own doing. Remember, it happens like this because we are "people who are it." How do we know that we are "people who are it"? We know that we are "people who are it" just from the fact that we want to attain "the matter that is it." Already we possess the real features of a "person who is it"; we should not worry about the already present "matter that is it." Even worry itself is just "the matter that is it," and so it is beyond worry. Again, we should not be surprised that "the matter that is it" is present in such a state. Even if "it" is the object of surprise and wonderment, it is still just "it." And there is "it" about which we should not be surprised.
Shōbōgenzō, Inmo (Translated by Gudo Nishijima & Mike Cross)

If we attach even slightly more weight to self-regard for the body than to the Dharma, the Dharma is not transmitted to us, and we do not attain the truth.
Shōbōgenzō, Raihai-tokuzui (Translated by Gudo Nishijima & Mike Cross)

Taking up the point that inherent within the spiritual activity of Buddha there is the killing off of 'Buddha', we need to explore through our training whether we ourselves have killed off our false self or have not yet killed off our false self.
Shōbōgenzō,Zazen Shin (Translated by Hubert Nearman)

A heart that is sincere, likewise, does not remain fixed, but comes and goes, moment by moment. We may say that there is truth in this sincere heart, but it is not something that lingers behind within the vicinity of a personal self.
Shōbōgenzō,Immo (Translated by Hubert Nearman)

Depending on the occasion, there are no boundaries between self and other.
Shōbōgenzō,Bodaisatta Shishōbō (Translated by Hubert Nearman)

Only a Buddha alone knows this Self. Others who are off the Path, such as non-Buddhists, vainly take their unreal, false self to be their True Self. The Self that Buddhas speak of is synonymous with the whole of the great earth. Thus, whether we know or do not know our True Self, in either case, there is no 'whole of the great earth' that is other than our True Self.
Shōbōgenzō,Yui Butsu Yo Butsu (Translated by Hubert Nearman)

Reflecting on there being no unchanging, permanent self is a gate to what the Dharma illumines, for thereby we refrain from fettering ourselves by thinking that such a false self is what we truly are.
Shōbōgenzō,Ippyakuhachi Hōmyōmon (Translated by Hubert Nearman)

All Buddhas are beyond ordinary sentient beings, and all Buddhas are beyond 'Buddhas'. All Buddha Nature is beyond 'Buddha Nature', and all sentient beings are beyond being 'a sentient being'. Because this is the way things are, all thoughts and things are beyond being 'all thoughts and things', which we explore through our training as our reflecting on how all thoughts and things are devoid of a permanent, unchanging self. You need to remember to let your whole being leap free from entanglements with self.
Shōbōgenzō,Sanjushichihon Bodai Bumpō (Translated by Hubert Nearman)

Because this body manifesting itself "first must have got rid of selfish pride," it is not that of Nāgārjuna: it is "the physique of the buddhas."
Shōbōgenzō, Bussho (Translated by Gudo Nishijima & Mike Cross)

Those who can help others reach the Other Shore through manifesting their True Self will manifest It and give voice to the Dharma for that purpose: this is Buddha Nature.
Shōbōgenzō, Bussho (Translated by Hubert Nearman)

It was said in olden times in the Lotus Scripture, "We today are also true arhats, and, by our voicing of the Buddha's Way, we can help all to hear It." The main point of 'we can help all to hear It' is that we can help all things to be voices of Buddha. Why would anyone stop at just listening to Buddhas and Their disciples? When all those who are conscious of It and have knowledge of It, who have Its Skin and Flesh, Bones and Marrow, proceed to help others hear It, that is what I would call 'helping all'. Our 'being conscious of It and having knowledge of It' is synonymous with the grasses and trees of our native land and with the tiles and stones of our walls and fences.* What we hear is the rising and falling away of all these things, their flourishing and fading out, their births and deaths, their comings and goings. But the basis of helping all to hear the Buddha's Way by means of our voicing It is not simply exploring through our training that the whole world is an ear.
Shōbōgenzō, Arakan(Translated by Hubert Nearman)

You need to understand that 'endeavoring to do what increases merit' is not the same as continuing to give rise to good that has already arisen. It is endeavoring to increase it. It is Shakyamuni Buddha Himself, once having seen the morning star, going on to help others see the morning star.
Shōbōgenzō, Sanjushichihon Bodai Bumpō (Translated by Hubert Nearman)

Peace,
Ted
Do not misunderstand Buddhism by believing the erroneous principle ‘a special tradition outside the scriptures.’ Zen Master Dogen, Shobogenzo, Bukkyo (trans. Hee-Jin Kim)
Ted Biringer Author The Flatbed Sutra
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Re: Letting go of the ego

Postby desert_woodworker on Tue Feb 28, 2017 11:39 pm

There's no "letting go". That's wishful-thinking.

Let's cut to the chase and accept that dissolution of self comes from sufficient and correct practice, with a pinch of luck tossed into the pot. Realization of the dissolution comes suddenly (instantly, at the only and right time), and may last a few months.

Things begin to stick to one after a while, and one needs some more intensive practice to slough-off the acquired new snake-skin, ...again.

And so on. And on. And on... .

Such is our practice. No one can make any apologies for it.

First step is to make the correct first step: align yourself with a genuine Zen Buddhist teacher. And sangha.

No guarantees; but, without that first step, NO CHANCE. Period. One does one's own work, but one does not do it alone. Not in the Zen Buddhist tradition, anyway.

Yep, again, this is serious.

--Joe
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Re: Letting go of the ego

Postby [james] on Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:02 am

desert_woodworker wrote:And so on. And on. And on... .
Yep, again, this is serious.
--Joe


Joe, you've been away too long.
This view has been totally discounted here.
It's in the Mission Statement.
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Re: Letting go of the ego

Postby desert_woodworker on Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:32 am

[j],

[james] wrote:
desert_woodworker wrote:And so on. And on. And on... .
Yep, again, this is serious.

Joe, you've been away too long.
This view has been totally discounted here.
It's in the Mission Statement.

Negative; negatory; nugatroid. ;)

Dunno what you're getting at. It's my own experience. And that of others. Oh, say, over about 2 1/2 millennia. No dissenters.

Rodeo the past week here has had nothing to do with it.

Rest assured, cowboy,

--Joe

ps Hook 'em, horns.

rodeo-calf-event.jpg
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Last edited by desert_woodworker on Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Letting go of the ego

Postby [james] on Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:55 am

desert_woodworker wrote:Negative; negatory; nugatroid. ;)

Dunno what you're getting at. It's my own experience. And that of others. Oh, say, over about 2 1/2 millennia. No dissenters.

Rodeo the past week here has had nothing to do with it.


Maybe you fell off your horse.
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Re: Letting go of the ego

Postby desert_woodworker on Wed Mar 01, 2017 1:57 am

[james] wrote:Maybe you fell off your horse.

Nugatroid... . :lol2:

--Joe

p.s. All's swell.
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