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Right Speech Flow Chart

A place to share and discuss the practice of Zen Buddhism without teachers. Debates about whether practicing without teachers is possible or desirable are not appropriate here, nor are criticisms of Zen Buddhist practice with teachers.
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A place to share and discuss the practice of Zen Buddhism without teachers. Debates about whether practising without teachers is possible or desirable are not appropriate here, nor are criticisms of Zen Buddhist practice with teachers.

Right Speech Flow Chart

Postby partofit22 on Fri Apr 08, 2016 3:24 am

Image

Chart found here: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/monkeymind/2016/04/the-buddha-suggests-when-to-shut-up-when-to-speak.html

Gregory Wonderwheel shows up once again! This time in the comment section, beneath the above blog entry, and he points to here:

http://www.wayist.org/lotus-sutra-ch-20-bodhisattva-never-disparaging
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Re: Right Speech Flow Chart

Postby Linda Anderson on Fri Apr 08, 2016 4:08 am

oh my, take off your shoes and walk quietly on the earth..... unless you want to turn yourself into a self-improvement project, which by the way, never works. this is so unkind to ourselves, imo.

what are you thinking?
Not last night,
not this morning;
Melon flowers bloomed.
~ Bassho
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Re: Right Speech Flow Chart

Postby Avisitor on Fri Apr 08, 2016 6:46 am

The Earth is my home so definitely take your shoes off and tread lightly
My home needs to be kept in order and neat .. for the master to return
Disclaimer: There is no intent to be offensive in my posts. None was intended and none should be interpreted as such.
Sorry, got a message that I was not being PC.
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Re: Right Speech Flow Chart

Postby partofit22 on Fri Apr 08, 2016 1:33 pm

Linda Anderson wrote:oh my, take off your shoes and walk quietly on the earth..... unless you want to turn yourself into a self-improvement project, which by the way, never works. this is so unkind to ourselves, imo.

what are you thinking?


Self improvement: It's nothing more than change, which is what we all are subject to- So the term doesn't bother me- It's no different than a road trip .. :)
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Re: Right Speech Flow Chart

Postby partofit22 on Fri Apr 08, 2016 1:35 pm

Avisitor wrote:The Earth is my home so definitely take your shoes off and tread lightly
My home needs to be kept in order and neat .. for the master to return


Image
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Re: Right Speech Flow Chart

Postby fukasetsu on Fri Apr 08, 2016 3:13 pm

partofit22 wrote:Self improvement: It's nothing more than change, which is what we all are subject to- So the term doesn't bother me- It's no different than a road trip .. :)


Indeed, there's always room for improvement (behavioural) but we don't need a chart or any ideation for that.

In any case it's the sincerity of the effort which matters, I don't practise right speech but I can see it's good medicine when needed.
Mijn Oude Vriend uit de woestijn begrijpt geen Nederlands. <3
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Re: Right Speech Flow Chart

Postby desert_woodworker on Fri Apr 08, 2016 4:30 pm

There was a Zen Buddhist Roshi in recent and modern times -- it may have been someone in the Harada-Yasutani school -- who used to say to people practicing with him at his place:

"You're all perfect already, but you could all use a little improvement."

--Joe
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Re: Right Speech Flow Chart

Postby desert_woodworker on Fri Apr 08, 2016 4:35 pm

A friend of mine told me that something her grandfather used to say when she was a child has affected her all through her life.

From her behavior, I'd say it indeed seems to be true that it has affected her, and that she embodies this "teaching".

Her grandfather "taught", with regard to "speaking", that one first consider three things (before speaking):

"Is it true?
Is it 'nice' ?
Is it necessary?"


I'm just passing this along, and am not directly advocating this. Sometimes, speech is better if it is spontaneous, provided it is not merely "reactive" in a hot-heated or silly sort of way. I suppose it all depends on one's (current!) character.

I would have liked to have met the grandfather. The granddaughter is my friend of 34 years, now.

--Joe
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Re: Right Speech Flow Chart

Postby fukasetsu on Fri Apr 08, 2016 4:56 pm

Thanks Joe, nice examples.

Spontaneous is always the best, but some folks out of habit/delusion say very nasty things "spontaneously" (astray from Nature) so then,

"Is it true?
Is it 'nice' ?
Is it necessary?"

Are good reminders indeed, same applies to precepts or anything, good advice where needed, but no ideology, for then it wouldn't be natural but would (could) only enhance the issue at matter, which is self-other (grasping)

When you don't see seperation (in essence) then all speech is better spontaneous for there's no harm intended, ofcourse whatever is said might still be misinterpretated by others and result in something nasty, but I know when run by the very shadow of the whip.

Observation is key, nothing is ever personal, so it's all good. :)
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Re: Right Speech Flow Chart

Postby Linda Anderson on Fri Apr 08, 2016 5:05 pm

desert_woodworker wrote:There was a Zen Buddhist Roshi in recent and modern times -- it may have been someone in the Harada-Yasutani school -- who used to say to people practicing with him at his place:

"You're all perfect already, but you could all use a little improvement."

--Joe


I've heard that often quoted ... Suzuki Roshi said it
Not last night,
not this morning;
Melon flowers bloomed.
~ Bassho
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Re: Right Speech Flow Chart

Postby fukasetsu on Fri Apr 08, 2016 5:22 pm

Linda Anderson wrote:I've heard that often quoted ... Suzuki Roshi said it


I hope all is well, Linda, remember the more we see you the more we rejoice in your presence.

No stress though, just a reminder. :daisy:
Mijn Oude Vriend uit de woestijn begrijpt geen Nederlands. <3
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Re: Right Speech Flow Chart

Postby Linda Anderson on Fri Apr 08, 2016 7:41 pm

:daisy:

I am very present with my seasonal job... virtual call center, work at home, children's summer reading programs.

(((Fuki)))
Not last night,
not this morning;
Melon flowers bloomed.
~ Bassho
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Re: Right Speech Flow Chart

Postby fukasetsu on Sun Apr 10, 2016 5:09 pm

Thanks Linda, lucky kids.

:Namaste:
Mijn Oude Vriend uit de woestijn begrijpt geen Nederlands. <3
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