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how close are you ?

A place to share and discuss the practice of Zen Buddhism without teachers. Debates about whether practicing without teachers is possible or desirable are not appropriate here, nor are criticisms of Zen Buddhist practice with teachers.
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A place to share and discuss the practice of Zen Buddhism without teachers. Debates about whether practising without teachers is possible or desirable are not appropriate here, nor are criticisms of Zen Buddhist practice with teachers.

how close are you ?

Postby klqv on Fri Dec 05, 2014 6:40 pm

um, i may be of the belief that i have at least seen the possibility of my purified sense organs.

how well are you doing on the path, do you think ?



:hugs: :hugs: :daisy:
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Re: how close are you ?

Postby fukasetsu on Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:34 pm

klqv wrote:how well are you doing on the path, do you think ?


"I do not believe in spiritual paths. The purpose of spiritual paths is to enmesh you in the world of knowledge, while Reality resides prior to it.
All spiritual paths lead to unreality. Discard all paths.”
~Sri Niz.

:daisy:

Anyways I'm fine, and so are you.

ps thanks for the inquiry, but eh lose the "do you think" the way we think we're doing is never really how we're really "doing" :)
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Re: how close are you ?

Postby Avisitor on Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:58 am

I think I started this path a long time ago and I am still on the verge of beginning again
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Re: how close are you ?

Postby Quiet Heart on Sat Dec 06, 2014 7:52 am

Avisitor wrote:I think I started this path a long time ago and I am still on the verge of beginning again

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Re: how close are you ?

Postby klqv on Sat Dec 06, 2014 12:47 pm

cute :lol2:

i think there is a buddhist path. not sure about an end to it tho :)
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Re: how close are you ?

Postby Seeker242 on Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:07 pm

I'm doing quite well on the path. Put one foot in front of the other and move right down it! But it's a dirt path so you kind of need shoes or you have to step on some sharp pebbles. About 1/4 mile down, there is a good view of the lake. A family of ducks live there, sometimes we bring them some food. They like that!

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Re: how close are you ?

Postby TTT on Mon Dec 08, 2014 5:25 am

How are you doing klqv? Everything good with you?
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Re: how close are you ?

Postby Sparkle on Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:32 am

Still me pushing up piles of snow in front of myself...then scratching my head wondering where they came from :ninja:

:<.<:
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Re: how close are you ?

Postby littletsu on Mon Dec 08, 2014 2:36 pm

how close to what? :)

I would like to meet someone who is at this "stage":

"The Buddha teaches that the materialist view is an error, and that despite the apparent solidity of matter, it is in fact completely empty of any solid aspect whatsoever. This can not be seen if the mind views the world as separate from itself. In the dualistic state everything is separated into the dichotomy of the ‘subject’ and the ‘object’. This creates the illusion of a separate, permanent self that stands in juxtaposition to the apparently real external world that surrounds it. However, through the act of effective meditation, the delusive experience is seen thoroughly through. The perception of emptiness sweeps through the illusion of a one-sided solidity and dissolves the duality that it is based upon. The perception of emptiness in relation to the sensing of a solid external world, in the first instance is such a relief for the aspirant that it is firmly grasped as an antidote to the sickness of material reality. This kind of emptiness, although signifying a substantial step forward on the spiritual path, is nevertheless the next hurdle to over-come. The grasping of this kind of emptiness becomes nihilistic in the sense that it ‘wipes out’ physical matter completely. Buddhist masters often describe this state as a ‘dead’ mind, or the ‘unrecorded’ state, and within Buddhist meditation it must be transcended. The grasping of a hard earned emptiness is understandable as its realisation has entwined within it a great sense of peace and tranquillity, as the aspirant is no longer bound by the tyranny of physical matter. "

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Re: how close are you ?

Postby Chrisd on Mon Dec 08, 2014 2:57 pm

littletsu wrote:how close to what? :)

I would like to meet someone who is at this "stage":

"The Buddha teaches that the materialist view is an error, and that despite the apparent solidity of matter, it is in fact completely empty of any solid aspect whatsoever. This can not be seen if the mind views the world as separate from itself. In the dualistic state everything is separated into the dichotomy of the ‘subject’ and the ‘object’. This creates the illusion of a separate, permanent self that stands in juxtaposition to the apparently real external world that surrounds it. However, through the act of effective meditation, the delusive experience is seen thoroughly through. The perception of emptiness sweeps through the illusion of a one-sided solidity and dissolves the duality that it is based upon. The perception of emptiness in relation to the sensing of a solid external world, in the first instance is such a relief for the aspirant that it is firmly grasped as an antidote to the sickness of material reality. This kind of emptiness, although signifying a substantial step forward on the spiritual path, is nevertheless the next hurdle to over-come. The grasping of this kind of emptiness becomes nihilistic in the sense that it ‘wipes out’ physical matter completely. Buddhist masters often describe this state as a ‘dead’ mind, or the ‘unrecorded’ state, and within Buddhist meditation it must be transcended. The grasping of a hard earned emptiness is understandable as its realisation has entwined within it a great sense of peace and tranquillity, as the aspirant is no longer bound by the tyranny of physical matter. "

(http://wenshuchan-online.weebly.com/imp ... ation.html)


I don't personally believe in stages in a sense of progress as if you're building (on) something. Like "more" insight. There's only one insight and that's about who you are, the rest is the play of illusion. Progress is in my view more of the nature of: how attached are you to the world still and how badly do you want to be free?

A related quote:
Nisargadatta: Take an example. A venerable Yogi, a master in the art of longevity, himself over 1000 years
old, comes to teach me his art. I fully respect and sincerely admire his achievements, yet all I can
tell him is: of what use is longevity to me? I am beyond time. However long a life may be, it is but a
moment and a dream. In the same way I am beyond all attributes. They appear and disappear in
my light, but cannot describe me. The universe is all names and forms, based on qualities and their
differences, while I am beyond. The world is there because I am, but I am not the world.

But I remember Tony Parsons talking about the wall not being real material stuff. He's touring so you could check him out although he's not very fond of the idea of stages either. http://www.theopensecret.com/
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Re: how close are you ?

Postby Avisitor on Mon Dec 08, 2014 3:10 pm

It is like sitting in a moving car and watching the moon race along with you
The faster you go .. the moon moves just as fast
Slow down or stop and there again is the moon

The mountain in the distance seems so far away
Walking along, it doesn't seem to get any closer
But soon, one looks up and there it is
It is waiting for one to walk up its open paths
Last edited by Avisitor on Tue Dec 09, 2014 1:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
Disclaimer: There is no intent to be offensive in my posts. None was intended and none should be interpreted as such.
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Re: how close are you ?

Postby klqv on Mon Dec 08, 2014 4:15 pm

TTT wrote:How are you doing klqv? Everything good with you?

yeah i'm ok, started a poetry post grad course.. one of the lecturers seems kinda constant pissed off with me, while the other has praised my work sooooo... we'll see :) !


and you TTT :heya: ??
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Re: how close are you ?

Postby klqv on Mon Dec 08, 2014 4:20 pm

Chrisd wrote:
littletsu wrote:how close to what? :)

I would like to meet someone who is at this "stage":

"The Buddha teaches that the materialist view is an error, and that despite the apparent solidity of matter, it is in fact completely empty of any solid aspect whatsoever. This can not be seen if the mind views the world as separate from itself. In the dualistic state everything is separated into the dichotomy of the ‘subject’ and the ‘object’. This creates the illusion of a separate, permanent self that stands in juxtaposition to the apparently real external world that surrounds it. However, through the act of effective meditation, the delusive experience is seen thoroughly through. The perception of emptiness sweeps through the illusion of a one-sided solidity and dissolves the duality that it is based upon. The perception of emptiness in relation to the sensing of a solid external world, in the first instance is such a relief for the aspirant that it is firmly grasped as an antidote to the sickness of material reality. This kind of emptiness, although signifying a substantial step forward on the spiritual path, is nevertheless the next hurdle to over-come. The grasping of this kind of emptiness becomes nihilistic in the sense that it ‘wipes out’ physical matter completely. Buddhist masters often describe this state as a ‘dead’ mind, or the ‘unrecorded’ state, and within Buddhist meditation it must be transcended. The grasping of a hard earned emptiness is understandable as its realisation has entwined within it a great sense of peace and tranquillity, as the aspirant is no longer bound by the tyranny of physical matter. "

(http://wenshuchan-online.weebly.com/imp ... ation.html)


I don't personally believe in stages in a sense of progress as if you're building (on) something. Like "more" insight. There's only one insight and that's about who you are, the rest is the play of illusion. Progress is in my view more of the nature of: how attached are you to the world still and how badly do you want to be free?

A related quote:
Nisargadatta: Take an example. A venerable Yogi, a master in the art of longevity, himself over 1000 years
old, comes to teach me his art. I fully respect and sincerely admire his achievements, yet all I can
tell him is: of what use is longevity to me? I am beyond time. However long a life may be, it is but a
moment and a dream. In the same way I am beyond all attributes. They appear and disappear in
my light, but cannot describe me. The universe is all names and forms, based on qualities and their
differences, while I am beyond. The world is there because I am, but I am not the world.

But I remember Tony Parsons talking about the wall not being real material stuff. He's touring so you could check him out although he's not very fond of the idea of stages either. http://www.theopensecret.com/
i recmon fwiw there's progress and you build on something. like the light gets stronger and stronger, tho it's the same lamp.

i think asking where other people are isn't very helpful... any teacher you visit has dedicated their life physically and mentally to buddhism, and it doesn't really matter what more do you need to know?

i think that details no an actual path can help one get a sense of SOMETHING. not how much one has achieved, not that is arrogant and other worldly. but maybe a sense of what's next?
God is dead!
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Re: how close are you ?

Postby Chrisd on Mon Dec 08, 2014 5:14 pm

klqv wrote:i recmon fwiw there's progress and you build on something. like the light gets stronger and stronger, tho it's the same lamp.


It's a way of looking at it. There's some truth to it, I agree. I might have been too bold in my prev post.
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Re: how close are you ?

Postby fukasetsu on Mon Dec 08, 2014 5:37 pm

Chrisd wrote:although he's not very fond of the idea of stages either. http://www.theopensecret.com/


lalla 2.jpg


Image

Here's a related blog entree from Sir Bob:
Stages of Human Spiritual Development
https://theconsciousprocess.wordpress.c ... velopment/
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Re: how close are you ?

Postby klqv on Mon Dec 08, 2014 6:01 pm

easy to say, more difficult to know, i guess.

does anyone know it ?
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Re: how close are you ?

Postby fukasetsu on Tue Dec 09, 2014 12:32 am

klqv wrote:easy to say, more difficult to know, i guess.

does anyone know it ?


I missed the reference, does anyone know what?
Differences are never in opposition.
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Re: how close are you ?

Postby TTT on Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:19 am

klqv wrote:
TTT wrote:How are you doing klqv? Everything good with you?

yeah i'm ok, started a poetry post grad course.. one of the lecturers seems kinda constant pissed off with me, while the other has praised my work sooooo... we'll see :) !


and you TTT :heya: ??


Not much new.
Going to a cooking course. With the agenda, thet all food we make are good and other Childish statmensts. But its ok cours. Its through some welfare program the state made. What sort of poetry are thay righting in the cours?
Is it a history class too, maybe?
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Re: how close are you ?

Postby Coffee Bean on Mon Aug 31, 2015 3:29 am

klqv wrote:um, i may be of the belief that i have at least seen the possibility of my purified sense organs.

how well are you doing on the path, do you think ?



:hugs: :hugs: :daisy:


Well as can be in view of the question. I've noticed nothing otherwise.
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Re: how close are you ?

Postby anka on Mon Aug 31, 2015 12:15 pm

I'm still wandering around the trail head parking lot speaking nonsense.
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