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Zen is a mystery

For beginners there is no such thing as a bad question. Feel free to ask any and all questions here. Member's responses should be made within the "beginner's mind" perspective.

Re: Zen is a mystery

Postby Benign Charlatan on Thu Apr 16, 2009 2:55 pm

the other day, a guy in our local bicycle club and i were sitting in his floor and having a discussion about zen.

a friend of ours comes over and says, "what are you guys talking about?"

he smiles widely and says, "nothing!" followed by me pointing in the other guy's face and shouting, "zen, mother******!!!"

then we all had a good chuckle.
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Re: Zen is a mystery

Postby jonno on Mon May 04, 2009 10:13 am

Hi S Suzuki used to smile when his students bursting in telling him of some great enlightenments or breakthroughs they,d made. "It's no big deal" He,d say"Now go sit"
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Re: Zen is a mystery

Postby Shonin on Mon May 04, 2009 11:53 am

I wonder if Dogen's teacher told him that when he 'dropped off body and mind'?

Not quite - he validated the experience as well as ensuring that it wasn't attached to ?
The Victorious Ones have announced that emptiness is the relinquishing of all views. Those who are possessed of the view of emptiness are said to be incorrigible.
- Nagarjuna
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Re: Zen is a mystery

Postby Lunarious1987 on Sun Dec 11, 2016 2:49 pm

Mustafa wrote:
Drolma wrote:I'm such a goof, but is there like a "Zen in a Nutshell" teaching of any kind?

Or does anyone want to give me his/her own personal version of what Zen is in a nutshell?

Despite some efforts on my part to understand it, it's still a bit of a mystery to me.

:O:

I dont say that i have understood Zen. Neither do i say that i am a beliver despite that i do my duties frequently.
A perspective from Islam may be helpful to explain why i think like that.
In islam there is a difference between a beliver, and a muslims.

Roughly said for explanations sake from an atheistic view on islamic theism:
A muslim deacleres himself being a posessoion of God, but he is not in posesson of God will.
A beliver deacleres himself being a posessoion of God, and he is in posesson of Gods will.
These are two levels, i dont know if zen enlightenment is a third level in addition, because it is empty and nothing.

Zen is a mystery in a sense that it takes your breath away by simplicity.

Zen cannot be understood they say. It is really about questions and not answers.
So, to find your answer you have to define your question. And you are the only one who can define the question.
What is your question in this thread? You question is: what is my question. Fact is, noone will know that.

Imam Ali says there are 3 kinds of worship ((3 levels). 1 worship of slaves (fear). 2 worship of merchants (desire). 3 Worship of free men (enlightenment). He says, Allah, i worship you not because of fear from hell, or desire of your heaven, but because i found you worthy of worship so i worshipped you (free man, honor).
- Don't be thankful to be righteous. Be righteous to be thankful.
- Shia: "We are the friends/owners of proof, wherever it bends we bend."
- Imam Hussein was once asked: what is affluence? He said : Decreasing your wishes , and being satisfied with what is enough for you.”
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Re: Zen is a mystery

Postby desert_woodworker on Sun Dec 11, 2016 3:16 pm

Zen Buddhism is medicine. It is aimed toward making people well again by enabling them to wake-up. And it is then devoted to keeping them well by enabling them to remain awake.

"Worship" does not exist in Zen Buddhism, because there is no "god" brought in at all at any point (but, if one wants one, one can have one. There is no need, though).

Therefore, whatever any iman has to say about worship is absolutely irrelevant. And commentary about what irrelevant imans have to say about it is ...off-topic.

I disagree with the claim in the subject-line of the thread. Zen Buddhism is not a mystery: it is a body of Medical-practice for waking-up. The mystery instead is this great life, this mind: It is full of marvels and wonder.

Aitken Roshi, great pioneering American Zen Buddhist teacher (1917-2010), said about our practice as Zen Buddhist practitioners:

    "Our practice is not to clear up the mystery. It is to make the mystery clear." --Robert Aitken Roshi
Hear!, hear!,

--Joe

p.s. I also would echo the post made on Page 1 of this thread by "olcharlie", who I feel hits it 'smack' on the head:

olcharlie on Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:43 pm wrote:Life, the universe and everything is a mystery. Birth, consciousness, death, that anything exists at all where such things can take place strikes me as a bit of a mystery. To me, zen is the experience of being present with these mysteries, as opposed to being present with our many explanations of them.
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Re: Zen is a mystery

Postby Lunarious1987 on Sun Dec 11, 2016 3:57 pm

You are full of answers. Buddhism is a question. Your answers are wrong.
- Don't be thankful to be righteous. Be righteous to be thankful.
- Shia: "We are the friends/owners of proof, wherever it bends we bend."
- Imam Hussein was once asked: what is affluence? He said : Decreasing your wishes , and being satisfied with what is enough for you.”
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Re: Zen is a mystery

Postby HePo on Sun Dec 11, 2016 4:23 pm

Lunarious1987 wrote:

Imam Ali says there are 3 kinds of worship ((3 levels). 1 worship of slaves (fear). 2 worship of merchants (desire). 3 Worship of free men (enlightenment). He says, Allah, i worship you not because of fear from hell, or desire of your heaven, but because i found you worthy of worship so i worshipped you (free man, honor).

On a Zen Discussion Forum in the Beginners Questions Forum how is this relevant?
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Re: Zen is a mystery

Postby Lunarious1987 on Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:00 pm

HePo wrote:
Lunarious1987 wrote:

Imam Ali says there are 3 kinds of worship ((3 levels). 1 worship of slaves (fear). 2 worship of merchants (desire). 3 Worship of free men (enlightenment). He says, Allah, i worship you not because of fear from hell, or desire of your heaven, but because i found you worthy of worship so i worshipped you (free man, honor).

On a Zen Discussion Forum in the Beginners Questions Forum how is this relevant?

It is related to what I as Mustafa wrote in the quote. Uggh
- Don't be thankful to be righteous. Be righteous to be thankful.
- Shia: "We are the friends/owners of proof, wherever it bends we bend."
- Imam Hussein was once asked: what is affluence? He said : Decreasing your wishes , and being satisfied with what is enough for you.”
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Re: Zen is a mystery

Postby desert_woodworker on Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:45 pm

L.,

Lunarious1987 wrote:Your answers are wrong.

That's just something you believe because you have never practiced. And, because you don't know how to understand what you read, neither in books, nor here.

(Because you can't see this (due to ego, and brainwashing), you need to have someone point this out to you. But you are an ingrate, and will not say thank you. Thus, you are a deaf and dumb person, on a ballistic trajectory elsewhere).

Therefore, you should leave here and reside at a site that concerns the religion you respect.

--Joe
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Re: Zen is a mystery

Postby desert_woodworker on Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:49 pm

D.,

Drolma wrote:Or does anyone want to give me his/her own personal version of what Zen is in a nutshell?

Surely.

There is no "Zen".

Zen Buddhism and its practice(s) is medicine for waking-up, and for living daily-life as a fully-awake person.

rgds,

--Joe
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Re: Zen is a mystery

Postby Lunarious1987 on Sun Dec 11, 2016 6:28 pm

I say thank Allah like 100 times a day, everytime i take a deep breath and relax. I thank him in good occasions and bad occasions because i don't know and he knows. I say i ask Allah for forgiveness instantly when i wake up, often. Look at my signature. The top. You or I are in no position to judge people, being ingrate or not. You are litterally asking me to be your slave, and threatning me by abuse and making my stay a misery if i don't.

Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe - Quran
- Don't be thankful to be righteous. Be righteous to be thankful.
- Shia: "We are the friends/owners of proof, wherever it bends we bend."
- Imam Hussein was once asked: what is affluence? He said : Decreasing your wishes , and being satisfied with what is enough for you.”
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Re: Zen is a mystery

Postby Lunarious1987 on Sun Dec 11, 2016 6:37 pm

desert_woodworker wrote:D.,

Drolma wrote:Or does anyone want to give me his/her own personal version of what Zen is in a nutshell?

Surely.

There is no "Zen".

Zen Buddhism and its practice(s) is medicine for waking-up, and for living daily-life as a fully-awake person.

rgds,

--Joe

As long as you got hair on your body, you're a primitive creature whom needs discipline. Clothes are an extension of body, they are protection, making your skin thicker, armour, and as long as you are not naked, free to be naked, you are a slave worshipper. Because you do not control your body. Youre an animal. Youre not awake, not enlightened. Noone is enlightened. Who dares to say so with the weight it requires? Even the teachers here are slaves and not enlightened.

Peace
- Don't be thankful to be righteous. Be righteous to be thankful.
- Shia: "We are the friends/owners of proof, wherever it bends we bend."
- Imam Hussein was once asked: what is affluence? He said : Decreasing your wishes , and being satisfied with what is enough for you.”
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Re: Zen is a mystery

Postby desert_woodworker on Mon Dec 12, 2016 1:53 am

Lunarious1987 wrote:Even the teachers here are slaves and not enlightened.

Review your medications, and be sure to take them. If you cannot afford them, perhaps your enlightened country will subsidize them, or even provide them free to keep you well. There may also be generic alternative versions. Important! Do not skip dosages to try to stretch-out a supply.
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Re: Zen is a mystery

Postby fukasetsu on Mon Dec 12, 2016 2:03 am

desert_woodworker wrote:
Lunarious1987 wrote:Even the teachers here are slaves and not enlightened.

Review your medications, and be sure to take them. If you cannot afford them, perhaps your enlightened country will subsidize them, or even provide them free to keep you well. There may also be generic alternative versions. Important! Do not skip dosages to try to stretch-out a supply.


what are the odds lol, the medicine thingy just popped up elsewhere.
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