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Question One

For beginners there is no such thing as a bad question. Feel free to ask any and all questions here. Member's responses should be made within the "beginner's mind" perspective.

Re: Question One

Postby desert_woodworker on Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:17 pm

Thanks again for our conversation, Larry. And thanks for the final thoughts re: the topic. I'll add mine below. :Namaste:

desert_woodworker wrote:
Larry wrote:A couple of final thoughts :)

As there's nothing like "agape" present or posited in Buddhist experience, I'll stay away from using the term "unconditional love"

Larry wrote:I think Theravada Metta comes pretty close. But I guess you'd say it's just an expedient concept or method on the path towards full Awakening. Dare I say, Loveless Awakening :lol2:

It's OK. Yes.

I agree that "metta" is a deliberate practice, employed by the mind of samsara, and is not a part, facet, or feature of our original or true nature. Indeed, I'd say it is a practice (but not one within Ch'an and Zen Buddhist practice), and it is not an expedient (skillful) means. A skillful means is employed and applied by the mind of no-mind (that is, flows from our original nature), by the bodhisattva.

Awakening to no-mind is the loveless, hateless, awakening, such as you surmise (or have experienced yourself). Only our original inheritances are there for free use. Nothing added, nothing extra, and there's nothing, especially, of vexations, nor attachments. It is most richly truly-Compassionate, with our actions informed by true Wisdom, and expressed in true Compassion, in seamless response to events and conditions among beings. Wonderful, miraculous!, the mind of no-mind, Buddhamind, our true nature.

Larry wrote:Thanks very much for your detailed replies. I always learn a lot from your experience, wisdom & Chan/Zen perspective :)

True dharma is such that one shares it and does what's possible to give it a push on the local, continental, and international stage. But here, we're talking, whereas one's teacher is the one who can help set us upon and steer us on the path. Still, it's Human, among peers, to share. Thank you!

With best wishes
for strong practice,

--Joe
Last edited by desert_woodworker on Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Question One

Postby Spike on Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:21 pm

:bored: KENZO "Snowbird", a Movie by Sean Baker :pop:
runtime 11:48

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bkgc6rqOc8w

Shot entirely on apple iPhone 6s plus

true love :huh?:

transcendence :bored:

(and fashionable!) :>.>:

"eachother"

awakening is b*llsh*t in comparison
Ripple in still water
When there is no pebble tossed
Nor wind to blow. --R.H.
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Re: Question One

Postby desert_woodworker on Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:45 pm

Oh, and Larry, the Forest way and the Ch'an or Zen Buddhist way are just two different but related ways. They don't both share exactly the same practices, and they each have their own logic and progression, with even further minor differences among distinct teaching lineages in the same school. But I think both endeavor to universalize the Awakening experienced and lived by our original teacher, Shakyamuni Buddha. Hail!

Now, say, does Christianity attempt to universalize the experience of its Founder? I'd say, "Yes", from this point of view -- The "Good" in us is constantly being crucified. But, it resurrects!

(Now, some say Paul is the founder, and Jesus is the victim of Christianity, ...but maybe don't let's get into that).

:heya:

--Joe
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Re: Question One

Postby Larry on Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:03 pm

Spike wrote: :bored: KENZO "Snowbird", a Movie by Sean Baker :pop:

Never thought I'd see so many members of ZFI in a movie :lol2: :hide:
:spin:
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Re: Question One

Postby Spike on Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:47 pm

Wish they'd given me a speaking role! ( or at least some of that cake . . )
Ripple in still water
When there is no pebble tossed
Nor wind to blow. --R.H.
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Re: Question One

Postby [james] on Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:36 pm

Spike wrote:Wish they'd given me a speaking role! ( or at least some of that cake . . )


It WAS too sweet!
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Re: Question One

Postby Spike on Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:51 pm

Exactly the spirit
Ripple in still water
When there is no pebble tossed
Nor wind to blow. --R.H.
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Re: Question One

Postby partofit22 on Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:12 am

I like parkas
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Re: Question One

Postby Spike on Tue Oct 10, 2017 1:51 am

Only $1095 for the Puffa
Ripple in still water
When there is no pebble tossed
Nor wind to blow. --R.H.
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Re: Question One

Postby bokki on Wed Oct 11, 2017 6:53 pm

Sheng Yen
"Scattered mind, simple mind, one mind, no mind."
(my paraphrase of Mr. Joes citation,plz crct if wrng)

thank you. some ideas, quickly
not that i agree or not, but would like to understand more

- " to search for the ox, you must find his tracks, the no mind.
..
the no mind is not wood and stone, but a imperturbable mind in the midst of circumstances"
paraphrases of Dahui, SF, ltr 1

- Dongshan, after the teaching of the inanimate, saw his reflection, and said it is you you are not it, dont search from another..
a paraphrase

- mountains, no mountains, mountains

- when a thief appears, a thief
when a saint appears, a saint

- ...

i dont think that me remembering old masters will help me understand this.
maybe im spliting hairs, or tree-stumps, idk
so ill in a few words try to say ..

imo, prbbly wrong,
but one must first realise (i mean at least c once)
the empty mind.
only then can unity of "illusion" and "truth"
can b realised
along the lines that no mind is samsara

thnx, joe.

b :heya:
Another log on the fire,
10,000 frogs singing in the rain
burst into flames

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Re: Question One

Postby bokki on Wed Oct 11, 2017 8:18 pm

and maybe MaTzus spectacular condensing of this q?
" mind is buddha"
and
"no mind, no buddha"
i may have missed something
and a nbr of koans that sprung from that
Another log on the fire,
10,000 frogs singing in the rain
burst into flames

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Re: Question One

Postby desert_woodworker on Wed Oct 11, 2017 11:38 pm

b.,

bokki wrote:i dont think that me remembering old masters will help me understand this.

That's right.

And the stages or phases in practice that Master Sheng Yen names and enumerates are not to be "understood", but instead they are phases that a student who is practicing will in fact undergo and experience, by inhabiting them most intimately.

Sometimes, even in one 7-day retreat, a practitioner will (can... ) traverse through all four of them, and awaken (to no-mind) on that very retreat. Although, I'd say that it regularly happens that some diligent practitioners or cultivators may come to retreat already established in Simplified Mind, or, deeper, in One-Mind, and then sink to no-mind, should they become quite lucky and have good cooperating causes and conditions on the retreat to enable a sudden awakening.

Sudden is called "sudden" because it happens in the space between two instants, but then the opening or awakening lasts many days, weeks, or months. That is, unless -- as Guo Gu reminds us -- the opening was not a true one at all, and was just "a blind cat catching a dead mouse". The teacher knows how to tell the difference between such things. ;)

--Joe
Last edited by desert_woodworker on Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Question One

Postby Larry on Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:46 am

bokki wrote: mountains, no mountains, mountains

Neat summary :)
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Re: Question One

Postby bokki on Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:17 pm

Hi bokki

Can your avatar discuss religion & write poetry?
Or maybe track down Fuki?
Or chase his cats?
Or chase away vicious birds? :lol2:

:lol2:
no..
d lazy fk sits there all day laughing at me
..
"look at me, where is your dental insurance?"
he motionlessly mocks me

..
id kick im 2 d curb
would he ask me 4 food
but e dont
and hes a big dog 2, lol
and d cats like him
dey pur while scratching
his hair of d dog
kittens play with his nonexistent tail
Another log on the fire,
10,000 frogs singing in the rain
burst into flames

-Linda Anderson, aka LA Chef
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Re: Question One

Postby bokki on Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:17 pm

u want im?

cheap??
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10,000 frogs singing in the rain
burst into flames

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Re: Question One

Postby Larry on Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:30 pm

bokki wrote:d lazy fk sits there all day laughing

I know the feeling :lol2:
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Re: Question One

Postby Larry on Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:58 pm

bokki wrote:u want im?

I'm not sure....Does he have Buddha Nature? :lol2:
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Re: Question One

Postby bokki on Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:07 pm

lol Larry
I know the feeling :lol2:

i feel d knowing

Buddha nature..?

MAYBE


lol i c ill b cing u

b :heya:
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10,000 frogs singing in the rain
burst into flames

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Re: Question One

Postby HAN SEN on Fri Oct 13, 2017 11:31 pm

The ancient Greeks had something like Agape of course, and right there on the Sea of Galilee, at that. Not to mention that some of the Sacraments are Epicureanism rehashed. I won't pull the legs and arms off this doll. One mind: we kinda mind. No mind: we don't mind. Biologically humans differ significantly from their pre-human ancestors. One or several of those differences leads to familial love, the social bonding that extends throughout our lives and is the life blood of the nuclear family. I heard on Zen master saying how spending a weekend in retreat with someone, never having said a word, shared a thought, can create as deep a bond as any. I'm not able to discern a difference between true compassion and this topic we're discussing. :ghug:
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Re: Question One

Postby Larry on Sat Oct 14, 2017 4:32 am

HAN SEN wrote: I'm not able to discern a difference between true compassion and this topic we're discussing. :ghug:

:Namaste:
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