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Practicing Rinzai Zen

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Practicing Rinzai Zen

Postby maaeso on Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:12 pm

I thought this may be the best place to post this.

Lets say someone is from the Soto School focuses on heavy Shikantaza or a close variant of. Places like Gyobutsuji Zen Monastery in America, Sanshin Zen Community, Antai-ji in Japan come to mind.

Then they want to delve into the differences of Rinzai practice.

What would be the differences in the practice, would the Koan curriculum be presented differently, is there any prominent examples of this having happened and how did it go.

Look forward to the Rinzai perspective. :O:
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Re: Practicing Rinzai Zen

Postby desert_woodworker on Sun Aug 13, 2017 6:59 pm

maaeso wrote:Then they want to delve into the differences of Rinzai practice.

What would be the differences in the practice, would the Koan curriculum be presented differently, is there any prominent examples of this having happened and how did it go.

Do you mean, would a person with some Soto training be taught differently at a Rinzai place compared with a person with no training at all?

Since it depends on student, teacher, and probably other things, I'd say, "No one knows". Until you do it.

I'll guess though that you'd start at the beginning, no matter what your background. But if you arrive with a strong practice you might make quicker "progress" than a person entirely new to zazen. Or maybe not!

--Joe
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Re: Practicing Rinzai Zen

Postby Caodemarte on Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:35 pm

It is not so unusual that Rinzai teachers will have Soto students, including Soto monks/nuns. Teaching is always individual. The various suggested " curriculums" are more ordering devices than rigid exam system. It will be varied or ignored depending on teacher and student. Minor sectarian or partisan differences don't matter much to real practice. Additionally, a Rinzai teacher might advise you not to mess about with koans at all, but practice in a different style if that is more suitable for you. Koan practice is not the same as Rinzai Zen (find a line from Rinzai that uses the word koan or praises similar practices). The form of your practice (koan, Shikantaza, Prayer) is usually less important than how you do it.

By the way, Soto teacher Sekkei Harda is a good example of a Soto teacher who has written about practicing koans if you are interested.
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Re: Practicing Rinzai Zen

Postby maaeso on Sun Aug 13, 2017 9:33 pm

Caodemarte wrote:It is not so unusual that Rinzai teachers will have Soto students, including Soto monks/nuns. Teaching is always individual. The various suggested " curriculums" are more ordering devices than rigid exam system. It will be varied or ignored depending on teacher and student. Minor sectarian or partisan differences don't matter much to real practice. Additionally, a Rinzai teacher might advise you not to mess about with koans at all, but practice in a different style if that is more suitable for you. Koan practice is not the same as Rinzai Zen (find a line from Rinzai that uses the word koan or praises similar practices). The form of your practice (koan, Shikantaza, Prayer) is usually less important than how you do it.

By the way, Soto teacher Sekkei Harda is a good example of a Soto teacher who has written about practicing koans if you are interested.


This brings to mind a question that I think I would want to post in the Formal Section. I can't see a post part in that though, do I need certain privileges or is it locked?
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Re: Practicing Rinzai Zen

Postby Caodemarte on Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:35 pm

maaeso wrote:....This brings to mind a question that I think I would want to post in the Formal Section. I can't see a post part in that though, do I need certain privileges or is it locked?


If you mean the Formal Zen Practioner Forum (which is then divided into subsections) it says at the top that posting is limited to those in a formal relationship in a sangha and teacher. To request permission to post, send a PM to a moderator. When I signed up at the time I joined ZFI I simply named the sangha I was with and the teachers I studied with to demonstrate I was a regular formal practitioner in a formal setting (although I like the term "inept regular student who has to take the same class over and over"). By the way, somehow my name slipped off the list due to a technical glitch later on so I just asked again.
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Re: Practicing Rinzai Zen

Postby desert_woodworker on Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:37 pm

If you post to "Teachers", it may take a few (tens of) hours for your post to appear there for public -- and your -- viewing, because this is the way the ZFI board operates, through its gracious and generous volunteer Moderator. This is a precedent which is set for Quality-Control, and vetting, I think.

"Stand by..." .

--Joe
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Re: Practicing Rinzai Zen

Postby Avisitor on Tue Aug 15, 2017 8:54 pm

Standing by ....
Disclaimer: There is no intent to be offensive in my posts. None was intended and none should be interpreted as such.
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Re: Practicing Rinzai Zen

Postby desert_woodworker on Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:19 pm

"Roger, Houston.

Meanwhile, Tranquility Base, here. The Eagle has landed."

--Joe
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Re: Practicing Rinzai Zen

Postby Avisitor on Sat Aug 19, 2017 1:07 pm

I remember the images associated with those words.
Black and white .. or should I say all shades of grey?
Different time and different perceptions
Disclaimer: There is no intent to be offensive in my posts. None was intended and none should be interpreted as such.
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