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The bodhisattva.

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The bodhisattva.

Postby TTT on Tue Jul 05, 2016 12:20 pm

Hello.

What is it to be a bodhisattva and how does one become one?

To contrast with the arhat, how is an arhat and how does one become that?

What is the differens between the two categorys?

Is it importent differens?
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Re: The bodhisattva.

Postby desert_woodworker on Tue Jul 05, 2016 3:14 pm

TTT,

TTT wrote:What is it to be a bodhisattva and how does one become one?
To contrast with the arhat, how is an arhat and how does one become that?
What is the differens between the two categorys?
Is it importent differens?

For the first question, see a teacher of a Mahayana Buddhist school, who will teach practice-methods to practice with the sangha and at home.

For the questions 2-4, see any introductory book on Buddhism, or a book on comparative religion which includes Buddhism.

best!,

--Joe
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Re: The bodhisattva.

Postby TTT on Tue Jul 05, 2016 7:06 pm

Thanks and good ide.

Last i was at a Sangha it was at wesak i think, or was it after that? It was after and it was an introdutions cours, i did not go to the entire days just one or two, "what is I", etc... i guess.

Introduction books? I have some books in the topic of buddhism.

I was just trying to make a intresting thred post in wish we can discuss the topics?
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Re: The bodhisattva.

Postby desert_woodworker on Tue Jul 05, 2016 11:29 pm

TTT wrote:I was just trying to make a intresting thred post in wish we can discuss the topics?

Excellent.

After you read as much as you can, maybe you'll develop some topics to raise and to discuss.

--Joe
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Re: The bodhisattva.

Postby TTT on Thu Jul 07, 2016 12:36 am

There seems to be a misunderstandin.
I am reding on the net just now, thet the Arhat (sanskrit) "one how is worthy" or "perfect person" means thet a person, or someone, how has reached nirvana is an Arhat. The bodhisattva is a mahayana teaching, he or she, the bodhisattva can not fall back from nirvana when reached.
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Re: The bodhisattva.

Postby desert_woodworker on Thu Jul 07, 2016 2:49 am

TTT,

TTT wrote:There seems to be a misunderstandin.
I am reding on the net just now, thet the Arhat (sanskrit) "one how is worthy" or "perfect person" means thet a person, or someone, how has reached nirvana is an Arhat. The bodhisattva is a mahayana teaching, he or she, the bodhisattva can not fall back from nirvana when reached.

Good, it seems you have some basic information on arhats and bodhisattvas, how they may be defined, in what ways they may be alike, and how they may differ. Good!, if you do.

If you're satisfied that you have a clear understanding of these figures (people), then you are in a good position to discuss points about them, or about their practice. That could be of interest to some people here. Or you may have questions for Teachers, in particular.

--Joe
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Re: The bodhisattva.

Postby TTT on Sat Jul 09, 2016 6:18 pm

Hello Desert_woodworker.

I wrote somthing, like a poem or a haiku on hering.

At times one can confuse a Sarvoka Buddha to a Arhat, hence the hering!

"The Arhat is lisening to the Buddha, the Buddha is not there enymore,
He, the Arhat, is lisening to himslef or he is lisening to himself agen, or he is lisening to somthing els, no one and parhaps nothing."

There are Meny teachings on hering out there.. So is that to be put intresst in and to clarify to oneself? I am asking you in this thred cauce i find it so.
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Re: The bodhisattva.

Postby TTT on Sun Jul 10, 2016 7:18 am

I think that ther can be a "over" belife in minds true nature as somthing good. That it will beinfit all if realised. It may be so, but its not always the case?

What do you think?

I am think of that sort of saying "if i follow my nature all will be ok" or..

And what needs to be done?

:Namaste:
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Re: The bodhisattva.

Postby desert_woodworker on Sun Jul 10, 2016 3:25 pm

TTT,

Realizing one's nature is a "first-step" in Zen Buddhist practice. And it is one of the "three pillars".

There are preliminary steps before this, of course, which concern details of elements of practice. But awakening to true nature is definitely a fulfillment of one's faith in Buddha Nature, and really is the beginning of a new life, a life lived in natural accord with what one has awakened to. Also, all of our original human inheritances are then in play (active), in the awakened person, inheritances which had previously been covered-over, and which are uncovered at awakening.

So, awakening is not an end, but is an enabling transition, THE enabling transition... "not dependent on words and letters", but a result of the dropping away of body and mind, and of one's previous fixation with them as limitations or distractions.

Only the proper practice can enable a person to awaken, so you are correct that a good result cannot always be had just by thinking about true nature. :tongueincheek:

I hope that you have a teacher, and sangha, and can practice regularly and intensively with them, as well as at home. This is the only way that "original nature" or "true nature" can ever become relevant and real to a person. Without such practice, one will not awaken, and true nature is just another idea among many ideas.

But true nature is not an idea: it must (and can) be realized. Teacher and sangha can help, and are usually known to be necessary assets ("Treasures") along the Way.

I'm not reciting "theory", but -- lucky sort such as I am -- I speak as one who has had these assets, and who has them again recently.

Take good care,

--Joe

TTT wrote:I think that ther can be a "over" belife in minds true nature as somthing good. That it will beinfit all if realised. It may be so, but its not always the case?

What do you think?

I am think of that sort of saying "if i follow my nature all will be ok" or..

And what needs to be done?
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Re: The bodhisattva.

Postby TTT on Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:22 am

Speculation can be good now and then?

:Namaste:
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Re: The bodhisattva.

Postby TTT on Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:24 am

I'm not reciting "theory", but -- lucky sort such as I am -- I speak as one who has had these assets, and who has them again recently.

Take good care,

--Joe


Theory and theory, life can be a test. Its not a theory.
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Re: The bodhisattva.

Postby TTT on Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:27 am

But true nature is not an idea: it must (and can) be realized. Teacher and sangha can help, and are usually known to be necessary assets ("Treasures") along the Way.


Yes, i am not native english speaking, what does "assets" mean?

like quality?
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Re: The bodhisattva.

Postby TTT on Mon Jul 11, 2016 10:31 am

Only the proper practice can enable a person to awaken, so you are correct that a good result cannot always be had just by thinking about true nature. :tongueincheek:


I am not talking about true nature i am talking about "over" thinking it it.

St. Paulus hade an "epifani" i the contenplation. This led to his "enlightenment".
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Re: The bodhisattva.

Postby desert_woodworker on Mon Jul 11, 2016 2:57 pm

TTT,

Whether thinking or over-thinking is just about all the same.

The way to realize one's true nature instead is to experience it, and this can be facilitated by correct practice with, for example, a Zen Buddhist teacher and sangha.

It's not clear what a Zen Buddhist teacher would have said about the claimed experience had by Saul, which led to his becoming St. Paul. We don't have much information. But I suspect that a teacher would say, "That's just the beginning. Keep practicing".

--Joe

TTT wrote:
Only the proper practice can enable a person to awaken, so you are correct that a good result cannot always be had just by thinking about true nature. :tongueincheek:

I am not talking about true nature i am talking about "over" thinking it it.
St. Paulus hade an "epifani" i the contenplation. This led to his "enlightenment".
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Re: The bodhisattva.

Postby desert_woodworker on Mon Jul 11, 2016 3:01 pm

TTT,

As I wrote, assets can be "treasures". In this case, valuable things which help us (in our practice), and help others.

--Joe

TTT wrote:
But true nature is not an idea: it must (and can) be realized. Teacher and sangha can help, and are usually known to be necessary assets ("Treasures") along the Way.

Yes, i am not native english speaking, what does "assets" mean?
like quality?
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Re: The bodhisattva.

Postby TTT on Mon Jul 11, 2016 8:02 pm

desert_woodworker wrote:TTT,

As I wrote, assets can be "treasures". In this case, valuable things which help us (in our practice), and help others.

--Joe

TTT wrote:
But true nature is not an idea: it must (and can) be realized. Teacher and sangha can help, and are usually known to be necessary assets ("Treasures") along the Way.

Yes, i am not native english speaking, what does "assets" mean?
like quality?


:Namaste:
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Re: The bodhisattva.

Postby A Philosopher on Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:41 pm

I will have a "technical" question about the translation. But, first, some general points.

The Four Great Bodhisattva Vows in Chinese -- Sì hóng shì yuàn :

Zhòng shēng wúbiān shì yuàn dù
Fánnǎo wújìn shì yuàn duàn
Fǎ mén wúliàng shì yuàn xué
Fó dào wúshàng shì yuàn chéng

The Four Great Bodhisattva Vows in Sino-Japanese -- Shi gu sei gan

Shu jo mu hen sei gan do
Bon no mu jin sei gan dan
Ho mon mu ryo sei gan gaku
Butsu do mu jo sei gan jo

A translation used by the Rochester Zen Center

All beings, without number, I vow to liberate.
Endless blind passions I vow to uproot.
Dharma gates, beyond measure, I vow to penetrate.
The Great Way of Buddha I vow to attain.

A translation used by the Zen Studies Society

However innumerable all beings are, I vow to save them all.
However inexhaustible delusions are, I vow to extinguish them all.
However immeasurable Dharma teachings are, I vow to master them all.
However endless the Buddha's way is, I vow to follow it.

What the Diamond Sutra says about the great awakening (annuttara samyak sambodhi) and the Bodhisattva's vow:

"Subhuti, someone who gives rise to the supreme, perfect thought of awakening [annuttara-samyak-sambodhicitta] will resolve thusly: ‘I shall liberate all sentient beings,’ and then having liberated all sentient beings, he understands that in truth, not a single being has been liberated. Why is this? Subhuti, if a bodhisattva has the view of a self, a person, of sentient beings, a soul, then that is not a bodhisattva. And why not? Subhuti, there is no independently existing thing such as the supreme, prefect thought of awakening. Subhuti, what do you think? When the Buddha was with Dipankara Buddha, he had attained supreme, perfect enlightenment [annuttara-samyak-sambodhi]? No.”


So, here is my question. Long time ago, I read somewhere Roshi Aitken's exchange with someone in which he comments on the first vow. Roshi observed that a more exact translation of the original (probably in Sanskrit, but I am not sure) would read (roughly) like this: I vow to be open to needs and suffering of all sentient beings. I cannot find this exchange and do not know what original text is referred to by Roshi Aitken.

Could someone, please, illuminate these issues? Thank you so much!

By the way, here is Aitken's "general" commentary on the Bodhisattva's vow. Unfortunately (for what I am asking about), this commentary does not address the issue I have just mentioned.
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Re: The bodhisattva.

Postby lobster on Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:28 am

TTT wrote:Hello.

What is it to be a bodhisattva and how does one become one?



The Buddha became one after waking up.
You could try zen practice for waking. Supposed to be effective. :heya:

Real sorry to hear Google closed down, maybe there are other sources of information? :hide:
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Re: The bodhisattva.

Postby TTT on Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:41 am

The "bodhisattva" got somthing to do with precepts right? This is what i mean with the thred.
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Re: The bodhisattva.

Postby jundo on Mon Mar 06, 2017 2:17 pm

TTT wrote:Hello.

What is it to be a bodhisattva and how does one become one?

To contrast with the arhat, how is an arhat and how does one become that?

What is the differens between the two categorys?

Is it importent differens?


I like stepping into questions and other sticky stuff, so let me try ...

If any being acts to rescue sentient beings by helping those "sentient beings" realize that there are no "sentient beings" in need of rescue all along ... or if someone acts to rescue sentient beings in a more worldly sense by offering food, shelter and comfort (although perhaps this portion is a more modern interpretation) ... and if someone seeks to learn and put into Practice the Buddhist Teachings to end delusion (doing so even if endless tasks) ... then they are acting as a Bodhisattva.

There are also "Great Bodhisattvas" such as Kannon or Jizo who, although likely paradigms and symbols which are creations of the human religious imagination rather then actual personages residing somewhere, stand as symbols for the ideal and best of the above human qualities. In fact, although perhaps just symbolic, they are also as real as real can be when human beings act to bring to life their qualities of Wisdom and Compassion (for example, Kannon becomes real when your human hands reach out in aid, thus becoming yourself two of the 1000 hands of Kannon, who then resides right in your heart and hands and becomes real in the world through you.)

All are Buddha, by the way, as are you me and the other guy. Many a Bodhisattva may know that there are no "sentient beings" in need of rescue, no me and you, no fill or lack, a realm beyond birth and death, war and peace. Nonetheless, they choose to keep on working in this Samsaric world of "me and you" to aid those in lack, comfort those in grief, bring peace. They do so even as they know this world as something of a dream.

So, what is different from an Arhat?

Buddhist religious sectarian politics mostly, if you ask me.

Supposedly, by many traditional Mahayana accounts, the Arhats were those who followed the so-called "lesser" teachings of earlier Buddhism and were allegedly more "out for themselves." The so-called "lesser" teachings were said to be the Buddha''s "pulling an Upaya fast one" for people not equipped to handle the truth of the "Great Vehicle" (who are often depicted in the religious propagandic portions of Mahayana Sutras as "amazed" and "dumbfounded" when they hear the Mahayana message). Maybe there is more a feeling too that early Buddhist "Nirvana" was meant as an extinguishing and escape from the wheel of rebirth, while the Mahayana message is more one of transcendence and realization that there is no need for "escape" for we are already "escapted" to the eye which can pierce delusion, that one is free right here all along by seeing through Samsara and not falling into its hungry traps.

Beyond that, I wouldn't worry much about differences in name. If you ask me, even a Christian, Muslim, charitable Atheist, space alien or anyone can manifest qualities of a Bodhisattva in helping sentient beings (although maybe not in the "studying the Buddha way" portion of the formula, such as the teachings of Buddhism that are not shared by some other creeds such as "non-self").

Gassho, Jundo

SatToday

PS - Traditional Chinese-Japanese Kanji expressions are very "short hand" and one needs to fill in the details in one's heart. The original in Japanese/Chinese is literally the following (maybe one of the Chinese translators like Mr. Wonderwheel would have more to offer):

眾 生 無 邊 誓願 度 masses-creatures-without-limit-vow-rescue (but I understand 度 as actually paramita/perfection/ferry over, thus "rescue" in that way)

Perhaps the Robert Aitken quote mentioned is from here, although I don't see him saying exactly "open to the needs and suffering". However, he could have said that somewhere, and it would be perfectly fine to read that into the "short hand". Not wrong at all and sounds lovely in fact:

http://integral-options.blogspot.jp/201 ... -vows.html
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