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White People are Scary

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White People are Scary

Postby chicka-Dee on Sat Mar 26, 2011 8:36 pm

A powerful example of Self-Inquiry into our thought processes:

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Re: White People are Scary

Postby moon face buddha on Sun Mar 27, 2011 12:40 pm

That whole interaction looks staged.
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Re: White People are Scary

Postby chicka-Dee on Sun Mar 27, 2011 3:19 pm

moon face buddha wrote:That whole interaction looks staged.


Wow. You were watching something completely different than I was, then.
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Re: White People are Scary

Postby partofit22 on Sun Mar 27, 2011 3:44 pm

people can be scary, no matter what color their skin is- seems that's the lesson ...
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Re: White People are Scary

Postby chicka-Dee on Sun Mar 27, 2011 3:51 pm

The lesson is to look at the thoughts behind our fears, our pain and suffering, and question them -- is this true? Can you really know that this is true, that [fill in the blank for you] is the true cause of your fear?

It's a powerful form of inquiry to uproot conditioned thoughts that play in our minds like tapes, and trap us in fear, and suffering.
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Re: White People are Scary

Postby partofit22 on Sun Mar 27, 2011 4:30 pm

chicka-Dee wrote:The lesson is to look at the thoughts behind our fears, our pain and suffering, and question them -- is this true? Can you really know that this is true, that [fill in the blank for you] is the true cause of your fear?

It's a powerful form of inquiry to uproot conditioned thoughts that play in our minds like tapes, and trap us in fear, and suffering.


and the outcome of such inquiry would reveal that people can be scary! :)
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Re: White People are Scary

Postby Seigen on Sun Mar 27, 2011 4:45 pm

Thanks, chick-a-dee. I've never heard of Byron Katie, and I kind of like the simplicity of it, it doesn't pretend to be something other than what it is, it seems, pretty straightforward even with it's little tricks, there's a "judge your neighbor" worksheet! How many people might secretly relish judging their neighbor. :hide: But that's not in fact what you get:

Fill in the blanks below, writing about someone (dead or alive) you haven’t yet forgiven 100 percent.

That is showing some websmarts.
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Re: White People are Scary

Postby chicka-Dee on Sun Mar 27, 2011 5:35 pm

partofit22 wrote: and the outcome of such inquiry would reveal that people can be scary! :)


Hehe, partofit... I agree, people certainly can be (or at least seem) scary! But that's not at all the same that they are scary. See the difference? It might seem subtle, but see how it feels when you say each statement to yourself. And then maybe you can take it further -- is it really people that are scary? Or is it the thought that is scary -- that you could be harmed by them? When you think this, how do you react? If you don't think this, how do you feel?

Seigen wrote:Thanks, chick-a-dee. I've never heard of Byron Katie, and I kind of like the simplicity of it, it doesn't pretend to be something other than what it is, it seems, pretty straightforward even with it's little tricks, there's a "judge your neighbor" worksheet! How many people might secretly relish judging their neighbor. :hide: But that's not in fact what you get:

Fill in the blanks below, writing about someone (dead or alive) you haven’t yet forgiven 100 percent.

That is showing some websmarts.


Thank you, Seigen. I've just sort of started investigating her work (I'm reading her book, "I Need Your Love -- Is That True? How to Stop Seeking Love, Approval, and Appreciation and Start Finding Them Instead"). I find her to be very genuine, and her work (which she calls "The Work", a type of self-inquiry into our thoughts) to be quite credible.

You know that saying, "Don't believe everything you think". It's so true -- but it's pretty hard to do this when we aren't even aware of many of the thoughts that are playing in our minds, that we are reacting to, often quite unconsciously. This is really the root of our suffering -- that we believe our thoughts. It's fine and dandy to say, "don't attach" -- but it's another thing entirely to actually do this in the course of a day, living our lives. This is where the 'rubber' of our spiritual practice meets the 'road'. We can sit and mull the teachings around and around in our minds all we want, but if we can't put them into use, what good are they?

This is really a form of mindfulness, imo -- becoming aware of our thoughts, what we tell ourselves, and aware of how we suffer because of it. I think that many of us skip over the First Noble Truth much too quickly, and don't take the needed time to really look at it. I've done much of this work myself, and it opened up my practice considerably.

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Re: White People are Scary

Postby Seigen on Sun Mar 27, 2011 6:54 pm

chicka-Dee, I think you are going to really like the first audio here, James Ishmael Ford on the Wild Fox Koan. It is quite gentle and very much about how, that, we tell our stories. The discussion afterwards is long, but there are some things in there that you will have a real appreciation for.

Here is the link, the audio files are at the bottom of the page and James's is the first.
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Re: White People are Scary

Postby moon face buddha on Sun Mar 27, 2011 7:25 pm

chicka-Dee wrote:Wow. You were watching something completely different than I was, then.


Maybe. It looked to me like the black woman was part of the show.

It is entirely possible that I am too cynical about this glitzy video productions by life coaches, zen master, swamis and other people who are trying to separate me from my hard earned money.
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Re: White People are Scary

Postby partofit22 on Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:08 pm

chicka-Dee wrote:Hehe, partofit... I agree, people certainly can be (or at least seem) scary! But that's not at all the same that they are scary. See the difference? It might seem subtle, but see how it feels when you say each statement to yourself. And then maybe you can take it further -- is it really people that are scary? Or is it the thought that is scary -- that you could be harmed by them? When you think this, how do you react? If you don't think this, how do you feel?


when i see no i, there is no me to be fearful -- of anything- so there's nothing to investigate- (at those times ... :lol2: )

but i'm not often without me- like today while driving through neighborhoods of cleveland and thinking "people live here-" and i tried to keep it to just that -- just to people, just to houses lining the streets of neighborhoods, without attaching any adjectives- sorry to say, that didn't happen- but it's clear that things happen to neighborhoods due to fear-
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Re: White People are Scary

Postby So-on Mann on Sun Mar 27, 2011 10:16 pm

I'm turned off by the "Hollywood bourgeois satsang" setting too, moon face. Perhaps they worked it out beforehand that she would come up and they'd talk about it, but her reactions seem pretty damn genuine to me.

What I find most interesting is that she responded that if she let go of "White People are Scary" that she would be free. The racism that binds this woman in her daily life is like a set of Russian dolls. She feels racism against white people and feels crippled by it, and is taking responsibility for it, even though we all know that her racism would not exist if it weren't for the racism white people have held and still hold against her and her people. But she did not say white people need to change (we do!). She's realizing she is the one who needs to change right now. And perhaps her changing will ultimately help white people to change too.
Facing a precious mirror, form and reflection behold each other. You are not it, but in truth it is you.
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Re: White People are Scary

Postby A Medic on Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:59 pm

I didn't watch the whole video but it looks staged to me also. My favorite part is when she said "did you buy the worksheet."
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Re: White People are Scary

Postby lok91 on Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:02 am

She's realizing she [black woman] is the one who needs to change right now. And perhaps her changing will ultimately help white people to change too.

White person convincing a black woman that she's the one who needs to change. White people are scary!
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Re: White People are Scary

Postby chicka-Dee on Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:24 am

A Medic wrote:I didn't watch the whole video but it looks staged to me also. My favorite part is when she said "did you buy the worksheet."


Listen again -- she said, "did you write a worksheet?" Also if you didn't watch the whole thing, how can you say it looks staged? Obviously the process she uses was talked about before hand (and work sheets were filled in, in other words some depth work was done before hand), so this may make it appear 'staged'.

Let me be clear -- I'm not at all trying endorse a specific teacher or her teachings, but the process itself, of inquiry into our thought processes, which many teachers teach. This is merely an example. If you don't find it useful or interesting, that's completely okay with me.


~*Thank you for the link, Seigen. I will have a look at this.*~

And thank you for your great comments, So-on -- yes, I think it shows so clearly how her beliefs have crippled her and limited her life, and I find it fascinating that as she was starting to let go of this belief that was so central in her life, a big part of her identity started to dissolve. This is really a key thing.

lok91 wrote:
She's realizing she [black woman] is the one who needs to change right now. And perhaps her changing will ultimately help white people to change too.

White person convincing a black woman that she's the one who needs to change. White people are scary!


You can choose to see it that way -- or you can look past colour altogether.
Last edited by chicka-Dee on Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: White People are Scary

Postby chicka-Dee on Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:29 am

partofit22 wrote:
chicka-Dee wrote:Hehe, partofit... I agree, people certainly can be (or at least seem) scary! But that's not at all the same that they are scary. See the difference? It might seem subtle, but see how it feels when you say each statement to yourself. And then maybe you can take it further -- is it really people that are scary? Or is it the thought that is scary -- that you could be harmed by them? When you think this, how do you react? If you don't think this, how do you feel?


when i see no i, there is no me to be fearful -- of anything- so there's nothing to investigate- (at those times ... :lol2: )

but i'm not often without me- like today while driving through neighborhoods of cleveland and thinking "people live here-" and i tried to keep it to just that -- just to people, just to houses lining the streets of neighborhoods, without attaching any adjectives- sorry to say, that didn't happen- but it's clear that things happen to neighborhoods due to fear-


No sense investigating fear or suffering when there is none, then, lol. But if/when it comes around, you might want to. :)
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Re: White People are Scary

Postby lok91 on Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:58 am

chicka-Dee wrote:
lok91 wrote:
She's realizing she [black woman] is the one who needs to change right now. And perhaps her changing will ultimately help white people to change too.

White person convincing a black woman that she's the one who needs to change. White people are scary!


You can choose to see it that way -- or you can look past colour altogether.

I'm a white male so I don't need to look past color, or gender for that matter, in this country. I'm on the top. :)
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Re: White People are Scary

Postby moon face buddha on Mon Mar 28, 2011 8:43 am

I really dislike the whole 'you should look past colour' idea. It implies that there is something WRONG with being black/white male/female left-handed/right-handed etc, and that we cannot have meaningful interactions with other humans until we see past colour and just see everyone as monochrome bland walking meat-puppets.

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Re: White People are Scary

Postby partofit22 on Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:54 am

chicka-Dee wrote:
partofit22 wrote:
chicka-Dee wrote:Hehe, partofit... I agree, people certainly can be (or at least seem) scary! But that's not at all the same that they are scary. See the difference? It might seem subtle, but see how it feels when you say each statement to yourself. And then maybe you can take it further -- is it really people that are scary? Or is it the thought that is scary -- that you could be harmed by them? When you think this, how do you react? If you don't think this, how do you feel?


when i see no i, there is no me to be fearful -- of anything- so there's nothing to investigate- (at those times ... :lol2: )

but i'm not often without me- like today while driving through neighborhoods of cleveland and thinking "people live here-" and i tried to keep it to just that -- just to people, just to houses lining the streets of neighborhoods, without attaching any adjectives- sorry to say, that didn't happen- but it's clear that things happen to neighborhoods due to fear-


No sense investigating fear or suffering when there is none, then, lol. But if/when it comes around, you might want to. :)


i do see the subtle difference, chicka-dee, when it comes around -- when i remember to notice to see and investigate deeper- :lol2:
don't know if this poem applies, but it reminded me of this discussion:

What happened when he went to the store for bread

Because I went to the store for bread
one afternoon when I was eighteen
and arrived there just in time to meet
and be introduced to a man who had stopped
for a bottle of Coca-Cola (I’ve forgotten his name),
and because this man invited me to visit a place
where I met another man who gave me
the address of yet another man,
this one in another province,
and because I wrote a letter and got an answer
which took me away from the place where I was born,
I am who I am instead of being somebody else.

What would I have been if I had’t left there
when I did? I would have almost certainly
gone mad; I think I might have killed somebody.
But even if something else had saved me
from madness, I would not be the same person.
I’d have spent thirty years in a different world
and come to look at things in such a different way
that even my memories of childhood and youth
would be different; it might even seem to me now
that there was never anything to escape from.

And then too, there are those who are other
than they would have been, because of some small act
of mine; I played a certain record once
because I liked it, and because he liked it too, a stranger
became my friend and, as such, met the woman
he married, and now they have two children
who would not have been born except for my taste in music.

Carrying the thought farther still, there must be
people in citites that I’ve never visited
whose lives have changed, perhaps not because of what
I’ve written but because I wrote: it might be
they didn’t like my play and so left early
and because they left early something happened
that would not have happened if they’d stayed---
I put it that way so as not to sound immodest.
God knows, there’s not a lot to boast about
when so much seems to depend upon the time of day
a boy goes out to buy a loaf of bread.

-- Alden Nowlan
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Re: White People are Scary

Postby klqv on Mon Mar 28, 2011 11:58 am

lok91 wrote:
chicka-Dee wrote:
lok91 wrote:
She's realizing she [black woman] is the one who needs to change right now. And perhaps her changing will ultimately help white people to change too.

White person convincing a black woman that she's the one who needs to change. White people are scary!


You can choose to see it that way -- or you can look past colour altogether.

I'm a white male so I don't need to look past color, or gender for that matter, in this country. I'm on the top. :)

yargh... i think that's how this video made me think - why don't i completely look past colour etc. / would i even want to. make sense?
God is dead!
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