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Postby fukasetsu on Thu Aug 29, 2013 2:26 pm

First I thought it was a site bug so I just changed the url in lack of the "post reply" or "quote" buttons,
but then I got this message

7097624.jpg


Sub=Common Practice Issues
Topic=Death.

So what's going on, a bug or not?
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Re: You cannot reply in this forum

Postby Sparkle on Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:05 pm

You're already dead...
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Re: You cannot reply in this forum

Postby Linda Anderson on Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:07 pm

read the fine print:

Posting in this forum is limited to Zen practitionners in a formal setting with a teacher and sangha. To request posting permission contact the moderators by PM.
Subforums: Common Practice Issues, Soto Zen, Rinzai Zen, Chan, Son, Thien, Sanbo Kyodan Zen lineages


that must mean that only some of us will die :blush:
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Re: You cannot reply in this forum

Postby fukasetsu on Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:22 pm

Sparkle wrote:You're already dead...


:lol2:

I know... but not double dead... yet :)


Linda Anderson wrote:read the fine print:

Posting in this forum is limited to Zen practitionners in a formal setting with a teacher and sangha. To request posting permission contact the moderators by PM.
Subforums: Common Practice Issues, Soto Zen, Rinzai Zen, Chan, Son, Thien, Sanbo Kyodan Zen lineages


that must mean that only some of us will die :blush:

Thanks Linda, ah hence this forum is not used much.
Does it apply to currebtly practising formally or is the so called past worth something?
Ah well, nevermind requesting "permission" and validating "authenticy" thingies Image

Thanks for the enlightenment, Linda. :)
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Re: You cannot reply in this forum

Postby [james] on Fri Aug 30, 2013 1:56 pm

Anirukta wrote:
fukasetsu wrote:So what's going on

So what, I too can't post on that "forbidden" forum.


Vexing!
Is there vexation after death?
Oh, bother.
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Re: You cannot reply in this forum

Postby Linda Anderson on Fri Aug 30, 2013 2:01 pm

oh :PP:

you mean that topic on Death! I didn't connect the dots til I tried this morning. it's the pureland over there.

on death....

before I opened my eyes this morning: we arise and fall just like our thoughts. that completely.

then, I remembered.... "all things return to the source, where does the source return to". It's enough to realize the enormity of putting down my pervasive reality in this life, how absolutely thorough that would be even for a moment that never would stop. Lately, I have a cold fear which is warming. Perhaps the fear is only felt when I have some view of stopping. It's not that hard to see how an unconscious fear of death permeates most actions self and others.
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Re: You cannot reply in this forum

Postby fukasetsu on Fri Aug 30, 2013 5:31 pm

Linda Anderson wrote:before I opened my eyes this morning: we arise and fall just like our thoughts. that completely.

then, I remembered.... "all things return to the source, where does the source return to". It's enough to realize the enormity of putting down my pervasive reality in this life, how absolutely thorough that would be even for a moment that never would stop. Lately, I have a cold fear which is warming. Perhaps the fear is only felt when I have some view of stopping. It's not that hard to see how an unconscious fear of death permeates most actions self and others.


Thanks for sharing Linda :Namaste:

I can't really relate to "death" as the mob or society or dictionary does.
To me there is only appearance and disappearance, yet not in my world.
I don;t consider myself to be born (the very thought is a perversion to my nature)
So how could death apply.

On the other hand, I know what people mean with "death"
regarding that I never have an issue with "disappearance" since I'm not attached to people,
only when my cat gets very sick or a pet is close to death, and I see the fear and confusion with that being I feel genuinly sad, on the other hand having just a mirror mind doesn't help anyone, it's about the function of every situation and condition. It only goes wrong when wanting to help is an emotional reactivity, an effort of mind. When it's natural and spontaneous it's just the Pranja/dharma arising, but even then it take two to Tango, ironically since the very same life flows through all.
Birth and death is but a dream, I'm staying out of it, refuse to give it any name or shape, nor attribute it to anything.
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Re: You cannot reply in this forum

Postby Chrisd on Fri Aug 30, 2013 6:09 pm

You say you refuse to give it any name or shape. Is that a matter of choice?
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Re: You cannot reply in this forum

Postby clyde on Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:43 pm

Ven. Guo Gu; Thank you for initiating the thread, but I don’t have permission to post to the “Formal Zen Practitioner Discussion Forum”. In any case, this is what I wanted to post:

A few years ago my mother-in-law passed away. She was old and died quietly in her sleep. Later we found this hand-written note in her bedside table. I added the verse of the poem it came from.

note.jpg


I found it comforting that she seemed to have found peace and fearlessness.

I hope we all do.
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Re: You cannot reply in this forum

Postby partofit22 on Fri Aug 30, 2013 11:49 pm

That's beautiful, Clyde- Thank you for sharing her story-
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Re: You cannot reply in this forum

Postby fukasetsu on Sat Aug 31, 2013 2:00 am

Chrisd wrote:You say you refuse to give it any name or shape. Is that a matter of choice?


It's just in my nature to witness rise and fall, the notion of choice come from the personality.
There is appearance and disappearance, that's all. Any further concept of "birth/death" is just a phantasy the conditioned mind adds to perception. In a social (interacting) way, I refuse conformity, not in a sense of rejecting, but in a sense of knowing it's all make belief, concepts, stories which if not accepted as valid, then no longer needs acceptance or rejection, but in language it's expressed this way.

All formations are impermanent, this is the law of appearing and disappearing. When both appearing and disappearing disappear, then the stillness is bliss.
~ Mahaparinirvana sutra


Does not mean there's no longer appearing and disappearing in a phenomenal sense, yet the mind does not mark it as "appearing and disappearing" so it is not shaped or named conceptually. (or granted reality)
When my father died I was the only one not crying or being depressed, I was like that as a kid also.
About 10 years ago when my girlfriend left I very much so fabricated "disappearing" "leaving" which was just a selfish attachment of the delusion of being something in particular, seperate.
But "death" was never an issue for me, far as I see it people suffer for nothing, all based on self-fabricated narrations of imagining to be something in particular, but I was like that too, before merging with being as is.
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Re: You cannot reply in this forum

Postby fukasetsu on Sat Aug 31, 2013 2:01 am

clyde wrote:
note.jpg


I found it comforting that she seemed to have found peace and fearlessness.

I hope we all do.


Thank you Clyde, I hope so too.
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Re: You cannot reply in this forum

Postby Guo Gu on Sat Aug 31, 2013 6:41 am

just saw this thread.

sorry, folks. i am new to internet forums and don't quite understand the subcategories on this forum. i thought having "Zen practitioners in a formal setting with a teacher and sangha" as stated under the "Formal Zen Practitioner Discussion Forum" just means one has a teacher. i didn't realize it is that strict and actually forbids people from posting even under "common practice issues" under that section. i guess i'm not alone as some of you assumed you can post there.

anyway, i recreated the everyone's posts here: viewtopic.php?f=129&t=9931&p=152112#p152112

fuki, you've been revived! (even though you can't relate to that) :heya:

james, it seems there's vexations after death :)

i'll be leading a retreat so won't be online for a while. but by all means, post away, even if you're dead or alive!

be well,
guo gu
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http://www.tallahasseechan.com/
Received inka from Master Sheng Yen (1930-2009) in 1995
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Re: You cannot reply in this forum

Postby unsui on Sat Aug 31, 2013 8:37 am

Guo Gu wrote:just saw this thread.

sorry, folks. i am new to internet forums and don't quite understand the subcategories on this forum. i thought having "Zen practitioners in a formal setting with a teacher and sangha" as stated under the "Formal Zen Practitioner Discussion Forum" just means one has a teacher. i didn't realize it is that strict and actually forbids people from posting even under "common practice issues" under that section. i guess i'm not alone as some of you assumed you can post there.

...

be well,
guo gu

If one checks new posts using the function "View new posts", it isn't always clear where on the board one is. This happens every once in awhile, especially people trying to post in the "Ask A Teacher" forum. It has also occurred more often, early on, with the "restricted" area.

It IS certainly OK to post in the "Formal Zen Practitioner Discussion Forum" . This is a "safe" place to discuss issues, topics, and questions that arise from practice, and yes, this means one has a teacher, which isn't a prerequisite anywhere else on the board.
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Re: You cannot reply in this forum

Postby fukasetsu on Sun Sep 01, 2013 2:22 am

Guo Gu wrote:fuki, you've been revived! (even though you can't relate to that) :heya:


Image
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Re: You cannot reply in this forum

Postby Linda Anderson on Sun Sep 01, 2013 4:02 am

Anirukta wrote:Though I don't like it, yet posting here, to keep the topic going.

Source: http://onedropzen.org/teachings/questio ... nswers/739

Q: I felt great fear of dying when I realized that the moment of death will come to me earlier or later. How can I proceed knowing this? I feel that this means that it does not matter how long I live or how I live whether I help others or not as they too will eventually die the same death.

A: by Harada Roshi, posted on August 20, 2013, 1:44 pm

That is why we have training. Because people know that they do not live forever, that is why they treasure that which is forever, Because human´s mind is impure, that is why we like what is pure. This world is imperfect. that is why we seek for perfection. Whether you believe or not, the workings of the mind do not change. Only in this modern age where people have too much knowledge, have become too intellectual, they made their own trap. That is why it is so important to practice the state of mind where we hold onto nothing. While we are alive, we think about death. while we have all, we already think about that which we have to let go of, and our mind becomes unsettled. It is important to know that we all can have the state of mind where we can simply be present. There is nothing eternal in this world, yet the eternal can be found in our mind. There is no perfection and purity in this world, yet we can find it in our mind. To realize the law of the mind that is Buddhism, which teaches that our mind never stops. Flowing water does not rot, yet if the mind stops flowing, it becomes hard. To be filled with fear is a mind that has stopped.


hmmm, I'm not so sure that I agree with Harada on this point ... so much focus on the mind. It's time for a bit of a rant and a little co-creativity. whatever one sees, that is what they get ... are we supposed to believe his opinion? Perhaps some can relate, I can't even in the midst of my own attachments.... there is an ease and a noticing that goes beyond this determinism. I am done with being told what I think. I welcome a challenge to my thought, but oh my, this kind of certainty is a bit off .... how does he know anything about me or you. I have been noticing my inaccuracies for sometime now. As I have said before, one size does not fit all.... and it would serve most to listen and see if this applies to you. Even for beginners, it sets you up if you buy into a belief that you are less than you are .... look for yourself.... is he leading you into a larger view or imposing limits on your natural being. Beginners are not so far away, if they don't take the bait from others and from themselves.

In all fairness, Harada is a great teacher. I know people who study with him, and he is much more. I am generalizing on this kind of teaching which is pretty common in Buddhism at times. I think it essentially is not helpful, especially for this twenty-first century, and doesn't encourage the highest potential of Buddha nature. It's not as hard as we are told and we can thank our forefathers for blazing the path. Beware giving so much energy to illusion. Find someone who embodies natural being and can induct that in others.

I've gone beyond liking what is pure.... look for yourself and relax the perfection. Love the pure and the impure. Is that the reason for training? no, it's much more.

He is right, the workings of the mind don't change. And, they never will... then what? going beyond to where the mind sees it's not in control.

"To realize the law of the mind that is Buddhism", says Harada. omg, put the mind down and see for yourself. listen to your receptive sensibility. Buddhism is about realizing the heart for me. why do we insist on viewing the mind as if it a problem. It is a friend also.

We, nobody, has time for another 20,30 40 years when the world is so challenged. go direct
Last edited by Linda Anderson on Sun Sep 01, 2013 5:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: You cannot reply in this forum

Postby Linda Anderson on Sun Sep 01, 2013 5:56 am

Anirukta wrote:What I do like however is the title of this topic You cannot reply in this forum.

Better than the original "death". Of what use is death. May it go to hell.

As people come here and post replies in the "You cannot reply in this forum" forum, isn't that great?..

:lol2:

As for the death, I can tell something, but maybe later. I don't like it. There are three type of the "fear" for me, all different. The first two have nothing to do with sitting meditation, but the third has. As it was in the "too much" topic. The first is old, as I was a child -- since then I know it. The second is as you wake up at night and suddenly you don't "know" how to breath, and "how to" everything, as a hand that is out of glove and cannot go into the proper place quickly. The "glove" is the body, the "hand" is.. God knows what. It's fast, lasts a couple of seconds. The first is long, it may last up to 30 - 40 minutes. Nowhere to hide, its strong. The third one is new for me.


Well, funny... we can't reply.... but we are :lol2:

Ani, don't they all have to do with meditation whether we are sitting or not? Child, yes. Waking up at night... yes, I've seen nothing waking up at 3am, not knowing even my name ... I woke up knowing nothing... who I was or where I was, and seeing how I reconstructed to fill in the uncertainty. I watched it fill in. The hand in glove image is vast and deep... and one the we can have gratitude for as a teaching... it blasts through purity if we are brave to what is so for us. Not sure what you mean by the third one, except space.
Last edited by Linda Anderson on Sun Sep 01, 2013 9:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Melon flowers bloomed.
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Re: You cannot reply in this forum

Postby Linda Anderson on Sun Sep 01, 2013 6:15 am

Well, it's all god's play, dear heart... a station along the way that we can't explain is a good thing. Hope you have forgotten where you are going. :Namaste: If only... but it's not for me to say. :daisy:
Not last night,
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Melon flowers bloomed.
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