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Re: Ways of Reviving ZFI as a Zen Buddhist Forum

Postby Spike on Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:14 pm

You said you don't have a license or vehicle, right? So you won't be driving home, hopefully ...
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Re: Ways of Reviving ZFI as a Zen Buddhist Forum

Postby partofit22 on Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:16 pm

fukasetsu wrote:Nice summary, well yeah main thingy I had in mind is like there's usually one bully, and others "decide" to bully along (at least they're save for now) and the one being bullied due to a overdosis of dick and cutness, ends up dead stranded on a beach somewhere.

But bullying begets bullying so we need a new bully-nee, which can be the new kid in the ocean but when there's no fresh fish it ends up another one being fried which bullied along in the previous round.


Oh, I think you'll due just fine .. :lol2:
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Re: Ways of Reviving ZFI as a Zen Buddhist Forum

Postby fukasetsu on Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:20 pm

Spike wrote:You said you don't have a license or vehicle, right? So you won't be driving home, hopefully ...


No I peddle home :PP:
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Re: Ways of Reviving ZFI as a Zen Buddhist Forum

Postby fukasetsu on Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:22 pm

partofit22 wrote:
fukasetsu wrote: we need a new bully-nee,
Teresa without a H wrote:


Oh, I think you'll due just fine .. :lol2:


:lol2:

Try me, this fish will just jedi of the bait on the hook. :daisy:
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Re: Ways of Reviving ZFI as a Zen Buddhist Forum

Postby Spike on Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:31 pm

fukasetsu wrote:
Spike wrote:You said you don't have a license or vehicle, right? So you won't be driving home, hopefully ...


No I peddle home :PP:

Be sure to wear your helmet
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Re: Ways of Reviving ZFI as a Zen Buddhist Forum

Postby fukasetsu on Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:53 pm

Don't have one (and still it doesn't result in little bikes)
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Re: Ways of Reviving ZFI as a Zen Buddhist Forum

Postby Spike on Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:40 am

BMW MC code: 'ATGATT'

All the gear, all the time.
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Re: Ways of Reviving ZFI as a Zen Buddhist Forum

Postby partofit22 on Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:52 am

fukasetsu wrote:
partofit22 wrote:
fukasetsu wrote: we need a new bully-nee,
Teresa without a H wrote:


Oh, I think you'll due just fine .. :lol2:


:lol2:

Try me, this fish will just jedi of the bait on the hook. :daisy:


:tee: Sounds like a "fish story" to me ..
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Re: Ways of Reviving ZFI as a Zen Buddhist Forum

Postby partofit22 on Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:33 pm

fukasetsu wrote:
Spike wrote:Fair enough. But knowing about Carol a little over the years, as she moderated and helped refine my posts, always for the better, I am sure she had the best of intentions.


Funny, I found her moderation to be arbitrary, ironically due to polarisation :lol2:

Which is no critique every moderator does that and I doubt it being escapable, but no doubt about her best intensions.
No reason to bring it up in the first place, since that only creates the suggestion she's capable of bad intent :PP:


Almost every forum I've participated in has a moderator that allows one or two persons to get away with wordy murder .. because .. I don't know- What I do know is that frequently whatever member/s respond to the pain in the butt with same mean-ness quite often get dinged or eventually banned- Kind of like the kid on the playground at school who brought a bouncy ball to play games with, providing the children play by their rules -- because it's their ball-

:)
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Re: Ways of Reviving ZFI as a Zen Buddhist Forum

Postby Spike on Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:48 pm

partofit22 wrote:
fukasetsu wrote:
Spike wrote:Fair enough. But knowing about Carol a little over the years, as she moderated and helped refine my posts, always for the better, I am sure she had the best of intentions.


Funny, I found her moderation to be arbitrary, ironically due to polarisation :lol2:

Which is no critique every moderator does that and I doubt it being escapable, but no doubt about her best intensions.
No reason to bring it up in the first place, since that only creates the suggestion she's capable of bad intent :PP:


Almost every forum I've participated in has a moderator that allows one or two persons to get away with wordy murder .. because .. I don't know- What I do know is that frequently whatever member/s respond to the pain in the butt with same mean-ness quite often get dinged or eventually banned- Kind of like the kid on the playground at school who brought a bouncy ball to play games with, providing the children play by their rules -- because it's their ball-

:)


partofit wrote:I think I love people more than I will ever realize-
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Re: Ways of Reviving ZFI as a Zen Buddhist Forum

Postby partofit22 on Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:55 pm

Spike wrote:
partofit22 wrote:
fukasetsu wrote:
Spike wrote:Fair enough. But knowing about Carol a little over the years, as she moderated and helped refine my posts, always for the better, I am sure she had the best of intentions.


Funny, I found her moderation to be arbitrary, ironically due to polarisation :lol2:

Which is no critique every moderator does that and I doubt it being escapable, but no doubt about her best intensions.
No reason to bring it up in the first place, since that only creates the suggestion she's capable of bad intent :PP:


Almost every forum I've participated in has a moderator that allows one or two persons to get away with wordy murder .. because .. I don't know- What I do know is that frequently whatever member/s respond to the pain in the butt with same mean-ness quite often get dinged or eventually banned- Kind of like the kid on the playground at school who brought a bouncy ball to play games with, providing the children play by their rules -- because it's their ball-

:)


partofit wrote:I think I love people more than I will ever realize-


Your kindness doesn't go unrecognized -- regardless of however brusk that kindness comes across- :)
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Re: Ways of Reviving ZFI as a Zen Buddhist Forum

Postby Dan74 on Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:08 pm

Hi Gregory :heya:

Thank you for clearing things up, even if over a dozen pages into the thread and without addressing concerns that were expressed.

Do you garden? If you have the same laissez-faire appeoach, then I guess you get your herbs and veggies from the store. But wild gardens can bee beautiful and this forum does occasionally get some beauties too.

But for my taste, I like to sink my teeth into some nutrient. So it's GBCF from me, I leave you with the words a more illustrious former member said to me:

I lost interest
over time.  There just weren't enough formal Zen students there to hold
my interest, since I'm not interested in general spiritual philosophy
particularly.  I think most Zen students who check out ZFI eventually
reach the same or similar conclusions.  Thus, those with idiosyncratic
individual views came to dominate.  I don't think it's a friendly
place.



partofit22 wrote:
Gregory Wonderwheel wrote:
Linda Anderson wrote:As I understand it, members of this forum took full responsibility for moderation and for the payment of renewal fees.... there was discussion about zfi continuing, or not, and ppl stepped forward. I thought that Carol and Gregory made it clear that they are no longer responsible. So, imo, no one abandoned ship.


NO I have never said I am no longer responsible. I am the person who has continued to approve all the registrations by crosschecking names, IP addresses, and email addresses against entries in the "Stop Forum Spam" website.

Carol transferred the "ownership" and password of the Forum to Michael without talking to me beforehand or asking for my agreement. As one might imagine that this has caused some tension.

I have been observing (lurking) and posting from time to time.

I think the notion of "reviving" is somewhat silly. That's my opinion, because I don't see ZFI as either languishing or dying in a manner that needs reviving. ZFI seems alive and well to me. But perhaps that is because I am not trying to measure by preconceived notions. Perhaps some would consider my standards to be "low." I have always appreciated the organic quality and have no desire to market or advertise and feel no need to increase participation beyond what occurs "naturally" through the participation of the people who find their way here. I see attempts to market or advertise as too close to proselytizing for my tastes.

I am not clear what is behind the idea of "reviving"? What is the need that such an idea is trying to fulfill? What is the perceived lack?

_/|\_
Gregory
.


Well, Gregory, this forum wouldn't even be, as it is or as it was, without a desire to revive, to renew, to create something new- The wanting of a renaissance of sorts during what appears to be dark times happens when the conditions to make it take place arise- When something would benefit from a dusting off, be it our backsides (our mind) or an altar or frond of a plant that is in our care or a forum that had become polarized and borderline hostile over time due to neglect .. the occasion to change, to evolve, is eventual- It fulfills our human ability to be the beauty we see and experience each and every day- Nothing is lacking for that to happen obviously because it already has- That doesn't mean that many of us haven't missed Carol's more frequent contributions to the forum or yours-

flutemaker indicated somebody needed to be behind the scenes doing a laundry list of things and now we know that's what you've been doing- It's more than enough for one person to do- Wouldn't you say that's true? Learning this, I think, will ease some of the tension, too- Those with an interest, take an interest -- those without don't-

I'm not a huge fan of war related programming- It's my husband's thing- So once in a while I sit and witness the D Day slaughter on a big screen while squirming and thinking I've seen this all before when in reality I never have- And I learned that I haven't from watching him watch the program as though he'd never viewed it before-

My preferences don't trump his- They aren't more important- But sometimes communicating a disinterest in any shape or form ends in defensiveness unless one's hands are empty-

I think I love people more than I will ever realize-
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Re: Ways of Reviving ZFI as a Zen Buddhist Forum

Postby fukasetsu on Wed Jul 19, 2017 6:13 pm

partofit22 wrote:Almost every forum I've participated in has a moderator that allows one or two persons to get away with wordy murder .. because .. I don't know-


Well if it's consciously it's usually due to politics, or our habit to prefer this over that, which is ok since not all behaviour like ice cream flavours are an aquired taste. It's nasty however if one's preferences for a certain individual is more important then their behaviour.

What 'we' do is basically the same a politician does when he says ok lets make a deal with this drug trafficer so we can fight "terrorism" or whatever, and let tons of drugs into our country (which end up in the ghettos) so often our actions hit the weak one or the poor one in a similair way, only the results are different ofcourse, of a more severe consequence. But for me it's in the core the same.
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Re: Ways of Reviving ZFI as a Zen Buddhist Forum

Postby partofit22 on Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:11 pm

fukasetsu wrote:
partofit22 wrote:Almost every forum I've participated in has a moderator that allows one or two persons to get away with wordy murder .. because .. I don't know-


Well if it's consciously it's usually due to politics, or our habit to prefer this over that, which is ok since not all behaviour like ice cream flavours are an aquired taste. It's nasty however if one's preferences for a certain individual is more important then their behaviour.

What 'we' do is basically the same a politician does when he says ok lets make a deal with this drug trafficer so we can fight "terrorism" or whatever, and let tons of drugs into our country (which end up in the ghettos) so often our actions hit the weak one or the poor one in a similair way, only the results are different ofcourse, of a more severe consequence. But for me it's in the core the same.


That's what I've attempted to express -- and the inequality of it- Thank you for that-
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Re: Ways of Reviving ZFI as a Zen Buddhist Forum

Postby fukasetsu on Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:14 pm

Dan74 wrote:I leave you with the words a more illustrious former member said to me:

I lost interest
over time.  There just weren't enough formal Zen students there to hold
my interest, since I'm not interested in general spiritual philosophy
particularly.  I think most Zen students who check out ZFI eventually
reach the same or similar conclusions.  Thus, those with idiosyncratic
individual views came to dominate.  I don't think it's a friendly
place.



Dan, but aren't those with idiosyncratic views the more interesting, just like an einstein or da vinci to name some.
And if ZFI is not "friendly" I wonder which part of paradise those who find it unfriendly reside.
To me ZFI is 99% more friendly then everyday situations one might encounter in daily life.
But yes to each its own taste.
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Re: Ways of Reviving ZFI as a Zen Buddhist Forum

Postby fukasetsu on Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:15 pm

partofit22 wrote:That's what I've attempted to express -- and the inequality of it- Thank you for that-


You too, lets turn the page and see if we're both on that one too :)
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Re: Ways of Reviving ZFI as a Zen Buddhist Forum

Postby Linda Anderson on Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:19 pm

Seems pretty basic to me. I'm not looking to anyone (much less Gregory) to do anything. If change is wanted, we are free to say what we want and be the change that we want to see. We can raise the bar on conversation by out actions and words. The world does not need more authoritarian influence... fundamentalism has everything to do with wanting someone to tell one what to think and do. It's good to watch how our own preferences are at work. yes, there is an ebb and flow, that's natural to me.

as far as I know, the technical function and appearance is what it is .... this is a standard application which allows certain customization. Nobody is in the software business here. I'm not so sure anyone cares about the details.... so what is behind this? And, as far as I know, the elements of this conversation arose after RJ introduced discontent. and, then it built on itself.

Am I mistaken that the forum had come to what it is with appreciation for the natural flow and each other?

some thoughts

linda



Dan74 wrote:Hi Gregory :heya:

Thank you for clearing things up, even if over a dozen pages into the thread and without addressing concerns that were expressed.

Do you garden? If you have the same laissez-faire appeoach, then I guess you get your herbs and veggies from the store. But wild gardens can bee beautiful and this forum does occasionally get some beauties too.

But for my taste, I like to sink my teeth into some nutrient. So it's GBCF from me, I leave you with the words a more illustrious former member said to me:

I lost interest
over time.  There just weren't enough formal Zen students there to hold
my interest, since I'm not interested in general spiritual philosophy
particularly.  I think most Zen students who check out ZFI eventually
reach the same or similar conclusions.  Thus, those with idiosyncratic
individual views came to dominate.  I don't think it's a friendly
place.



partofit22 wrote:
Gregory Wonderwheel wrote:
Linda Anderson wrote:As I understand it, members of this forum took full responsibility for moderation and for the payment of renewal fees.... there was discussion about zfi continuing, or not, and ppl stepped forward. I thought that Carol and Gregory made it clear that they are no longer responsible. So, imo, no one abandoned ship.


NO I have never said I am no longer responsible. I am the person who has continued to approve all the registrations by crosschecking names, IP addresses, and email addresses against entries in the "Stop Forum Spam" website.

Carol transferred the "ownership" and password of the Forum to Michael without talking to me beforehand or asking for my agreement. As one might imagine that this has caused some tension.

I have been observing (lurking) and posting from time to time.

I think the notion of "reviving" is somewhat silly. That's my opinion, because I don't see ZFI as either languishing or dying in a manner that needs reviving. ZFI seems alive and well to me. But perhaps that is because I am not trying to measure by preconceived notions. Perhaps some would consider my standards to be "low." I have always appreciated the organic quality and have no desire to market or advertise and feel no need to increase participation beyond what occurs "naturally" through the participation of the people who find their way here. I see attempts to market or advertise as too close to proselytizing for my tastes.

I am not clear what is behind the idea of "reviving"? What is the need that such an idea is trying to fulfill? What is the perceived lack?

_/|\_
Gregory
.


Well, Gregory, this forum wouldn't even be, as it is or as it was, without a desire to revive, to renew, to create something new- The wanting of a renaissance of sorts during what appears to be dark times happens when the conditions to make it take place arise- When something would benefit from a dusting off, be it our backsides (our mind) or an altar or frond of a plant that is in our care or a forum that had become polarized and borderline hostile over time due to neglect .. the occasion to change, to evolve, is eventual- It fulfills our human ability to be the beauty we see and experience each and every day- Nothing is lacking for that to happen obviously because it already has- That doesn't mean that many of us haven't missed Carol's more frequent contributions to the forum or yours-

flutemaker indicated somebody needed to be behind the scenes doing a laundry list of things and now we know that's what you've been doing- It's more than enough for one person to do- Wouldn't you say that's true? Learning this, I think, will ease some of the tension, too- Those with an interest, take an interest -- those without don't-

I'm not a huge fan of war related programming- It's my husband's thing- So once in a while I sit and witness the D Day slaughter on a big screen while squirming and thinking I've seen this all before when in reality I never have- And I learned that I haven't from watching him watch the program as though he'd never viewed it before-

My preferences don't trump his- They aren't more important- But sometimes communicating a disinterest in any shape or form ends in defensiveness unless one's hands are empty-

I think I love people more than I will ever realize-
Not last night,
not this morning;
Melon flowers bloomed.
~ Bassho
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Re: Ways of Reviving ZFI as a Zen Buddhist Forum

Postby desert_woodworker on Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:26 pm

Linda,

Linda wrote:Am I mistaken that the forum had come to what it is with appreciation for the natural flow and each other?

Whew; I'd say you are not mistaken, and have encapsulated History correctly and compactly.

Good thoughts, Linda, thanks for sharing (I note that you've been with ZFI from near the beginning, and your participation pre-dates my joining by years).

I, too, would say that ZFI is alive and pretty Well.

Anyone with a pulse-oximeter upon the pointing finger of ZFI will see that its lifeblood is at least 99-percent oxygenated. No resuscitation, needed, "thank you!", for caring. ;)

Plus, I'd say this particular thread reached its useful-end twenty-some pages ago ...IMO. :lol2:

:Namaste:,

--Joe :heya:

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Re: Ways of Reviving ZFI as a Zen Buddhist Forum

Postby [james] on Thu Jul 20, 2017 5:39 pm

Dan74 wrote:Hi Gregory ...
Do you garden? If you have the same laissez-faire appeoach, then I guess you get your herbs and veggies from the store. But wild gardens can bee beautiful and this forum does occasionally get some beauties too.

Gregory Wonderwheel wrote:I have always appreciated the organic quality and have no desire to market or advertise ....

Sounds like an organic gardener to me.

Dan74 wrote:But for my taste, I like to sink my teeth into some nutrient. So it's GBCF from me, I leave you with the words a more illustrious former member said to me:
I lost interest
over time.  There just weren't enough formal Zen students there to hold
my interest, since I'm not interested in general spiritual philosophy
particularly.  I think most Zen students who check out ZFI eventually
reach the same or similar conclusions.  Thus, those with idiosyncratic
individual views came to dominate.  I don't think it's a friendly
place.


The formal vs informal streams, here, have often been counterflowing rather than interflowing which is unfortunate and unnecessary I think. There can be a place for both in any situation. Is one a "Zen Student" who shuts the door on other perspectives, idiosyncratic or otherwise?

Is "GBCF" a goodbye acronym of some sort? I hope not.
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Re: Ways of Reviving ZFI as a Zen Buddhist Forum

Postby desert_woodworker on Thu Jul 20, 2017 7:18 pm

James,

[james] wrote:Is "GBCF" a goodbye acronym of some sort? I hope not.

Guessing from context, it may be modeled after "Good Bye Cruel World (I'm off to join the Circus)", but, in this case, World may be "Forum".

Another formal practitioner would always be good to welcome here; I wonder if that is (was?) the writer's status.

rgds,

--Joe
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