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New team of moderators

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Re: New team of moderators

Postby partofit22 on Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:36 am

@ All- To be clear, when I offered financial support I did so because the discussion was focused on preserving ZFI -- not financing the moving of it to another host- I'm not opposed to such a change itself, I'm opposed to financing such a venture-

Otherwise, best of luck to you guys! I hope the transfer of ownership is seamless and that nothing becomes lost or broken beyond retrieving when you make the move-
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Re: New team of moderators

Postby partofit22 on Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:53 am

fukasetsu wrote:
partofit22 wrote:A group on Facebook is an option, as Linda has suggested- Christopher:::, a founding member of this site, has a beautiful, active Facebook community already in place with a substantial following- https://www.facebook.com/TaoZen2012


Facebook is no option for me and there are other out there who don't go on facebook (or twitter or instagram or whatever's out there) :heya:

before you know it the entire internet begins with http/facebook :PP:


I do understand- :)
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Re: New team of moderators

Postby Michaeljc on Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:08 am

The way it is moving now is that Carol will transfer 'ownership' to me using the existing service.

To move things along I propose to get general feedback this way,

that:

Anyone has the right to object to my taking over ownership or make suggestions up until Jan 20th 5 pm US W time. If no objections eventuate we will proceed.

At this point in time I feel that I should not be a moderator. I would not be dictating policy or influencing moderators. But, I would reserve the right to co-opt a technical assistant.

I hope that it works out. Through their work Carol and Gregory have assembled a treasure trove of information :heya:

m
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Re: New team of moderators

Postby desert_woodworker on Sat Jan 14, 2017 3:46 pm

Michael,

I have not only no objections to your taking responsibility as "owner" of ZFI, but I send thanks!, across the Big Salt.

As owner, I hope you will carry the proper amount of air in the tires, and use only unleaded fuel. A wash of the vehicle from time to time, too, will keep it lookin' go-o-o-od.

Remember, this is the Big Vehicle, not the Small one. :peace:

Greetings and Salutations,

--Joe

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Re: New team of moderators

Postby partofit22 on Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:11 pm

Michaeljc wrote:The way it is moving now is that Carol will transfer 'ownership' to me using the existing service.

To move things along I propose to get general feedback this way,

that:

Anyone has the right to object to my taking over ownership or make suggestions up until Jan 20th 5 pm US W time. If no objections eventuate we will proceed.

At this point in time I feel that I should not be a moderator. I would not be dictating policy or influencing moderators. But, I would reserve the right to co-opt a technical assistant.

I hope that it works out. Through their work Carol and Gregory have assembled a treasure trove of information :heya:

m


Thank you, all, for your efforts- :)
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Re: New team of moderators

Postby Linda Anderson on Sat Jan 14, 2017 5:22 pm

Michaeljc wrote:The way it is moving now is that Carol will transfer 'ownership' to me using the existing service.

To move things along I propose to get general feedback this way,

that:

Anyone has the right to object to my taking over ownership or make suggestions up until Jan 20th 5 pm US W time. If no objections eventuate we will proceed.

At this point in time I feel that I should not be a moderator. I would not be dictating policy or influencing moderators. But, I would reserve the right to co-opt a technical assistant.

I hope that it works out. Through their work Carol and Gregory have assembled a treasure trove of information :heya:

m


Go for it Michael! Thanks for doing this!! let us know about how we can contribute $$.

best wishes
linda
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Re: New team of moderators

Postby Michaeljc on Sat Jan 14, 2017 6:48 pm

In every spiritual movement there is a tussle between the orthodox and the liberal. The Anglican church is at real risk of a complete split. Within the Catholic church there is immense pressure on Rome to include female clergy and accept birth control> its the way of things.

I will wait. Ya don't get off that easy Ani :lol2:
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Re: New team of moderators

Postby desert_woodworker on Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:00 pm

Ani,

I believe you'd make an able technical administrator, as you've shown skill in this (plus artistic skill, and vision) in your site which featured your photos of the Atacama Desert in Chile (in beautiful environs where I worked at the Observatory for years in the early-1980s).

Wishing you the continued very best in your work with the flutes and the music. I'm still enamored of the Chilean folkloric groups there. And, of native American flute styles in North America. By the way, about 18 years ago, I named one of the asteroids I discovered after a local friend, the cedar flute-maker and flute musician R. Carlos Nakai; maybe you know (of) him?

Below is the naming-citation (proposal) which I wrote to motivate the naming, and which was accepted by the International Astronomical Union, and since published to the world to make the naming official, and officially-recorded:

"(10894) Nakai = 1997 SE30

R. Carlos Nakai (b. 1946) is a musician and cultural anthropologist of
Navajo-Ute descent. Classically trained on trumpet and cornet, he turned to
wooden flute in 1972, mastered cedar flute-making and became a virtuoso
player, composer and international recording artist. Nakai means
"wanderer", as does planet in Greek."


Small world; big Universe.

--Joe
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Re: New team of moderators

Postby Michaeljc on Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:06 pm

For those that don't know Ani spent a year or more in intense meditative practice as an isolated recluse. According to my observation he has never identified with any one Buddhist school. He is very well read in scripture.

Fine by me
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Re: New team of moderators

Postby desert_woodworker on Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:26 pm

I agree that some or all of a team of moderators at a Zen Buddhist forum ought to have experience in formal Zen Buddhist training, no matter how diverse or divergent in the various extant Zen Buddhist schools (Soto; Rinzai; Obaku), and ways of approach (lineages). This gives the people actually a common point of reference, ...regardless of how they (the practitioners in question) may have later struck out in different or more personally supportable directions after their first training(s).

Reading, without personal guidance, would cause one to miss a lot, and likely to get things wrong (in concept; and in practice).

The Zen Buddhist school itself claims to be a rather special pointing-at-the-mind-of-Humanity, not dependent on words and letters, and not coming through words and letters. This is not to denigrate the value of scriptures and writings of masters, neither in this or in other Buddhist schools, but it is to make the point about the rather special situation that Zen Buddhism and Zen Buddhist practice is in, historically and at present. So much the better if moderators agree on this, I'd say, and actually share this common and core experience, and background. A sine qua non, in my view.

tnx,

--Joe
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Re: New team of moderators

Postby Linda Anderson on Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:16 pm

here's another pov...

I have not seen "personal guidance" coming from any moderator. In fact, I personally do not welcome it. Moderators are not intended to be teachers, but rather to guide and monitor TOS and make the forum a place where people feel comfortable to share and learn with others. Since this is a zen forum, it is good for people to have some experience/wisdom with practice. It is also good to remember that zen has many roots, so others may have a different flavor of experience and I think this is a healthy thing to understand. After all, at the end of the day, zen is simply about being oneself free from concepts and words. We have long moved beyond depending on teachers to provide structure or guidance. Teachers can be specifically asked questions in the teacher section and hopefully they may offer insights on any topic forum-wide. Many people on this forum are already sharing and exploring.... sincerity in doing that is all that's required. We have some good folks doing this.

It seems to me that on this forum as well as the US/world in general.... we are waking up to the fact that we can not rely on "Big Daddy" for the answers. It's asking for trouble. Yes, we can consult knowledgeable people when we need/choose. There are other vehicles for working with teachers.

Food for thought... new mods.

linda
Last edited by Linda Anderson on Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:23 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: New team of moderators

Postby [james] on Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:20 pm

Anirukta wrote:I would decline the technical assistant position, based on the following observations, and thoughts (perhaps not entirely correct).

None of us here can know very much of anything about each other. The impressions we have are based on very little and, keeping that in mind, the exchanges we have here must be mostly based on good faith. So, yeah, "not entirely correct" but not completely off track either.

Firstly, I feel somehow that there is no support here, on the forum, other than from a single person, Michaeljc, regardless of him being an owner of the site or not. So, a sort of "silent opposition" from the majority of the old-timers is not the best setting for such a role.

The majority of old timers are long gone it seems ... they have voted with their feet. So I invite you to be part of something new. I support your active and essential participation and have said so earlier in this thread.

.... and finally, there are by no means realized people, and very much aware of that. Being of that last kind, having left behind everything related to "practice", "Zen", clearing all sort of books, videos, and anything else even remotely related to matters "spiritual" from all my media, presently I am about just making bamboo flutes north Indian style, mastering them, and seeking perfection in this very basic undertaking.

Though I have often not understood your posts, I have always admired what I would call a desperate determination in your efforts, as you have described them.

From one side, my non-interest in "Zen" would help me to no interfere with any kind of arguing regarding Zen matters. But from the other side, using Carol's language, "for the consistency" of the forum team, I would not align well with the majority of the team, being firmly and substantially interconnected within formal Zen Buddhist circles.

Consistency and inconsistency both have their place. "Substantially interconnected within formal Zen Buddhist circles" is an unfounded assumption, I think. I can't speak for michaeljc or macdougdoug but I am certainly not connected to any formal expressions of Zen Buddhism nor do I want to be. To each his own.

Please do reconsider.

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Re: New team of moderators

Postby desert_woodworker on Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:19 pm

Linda,

Linda Anderson wrote:I have not seen "personal guidance" coming from any moderator.

I agree that that's a good thing!

But, moderators DO "guide" errant posters to remain on topic, or return to it. That's "personal", and is also for the public good.

I agree with Carol that moderators can save a lot of grief in and out of their circle by having certain basic agreements. One of these is on the value of a common basis among them in formal Zen Buddhist practice, as I see it. After, or prior, or following, or combined with that common basis, can be any sort of this-way, that-way other practice experience, in various schools, or non-schools, and the more the better, perhaps, to understand and sympathize with almost all comers' trajectories and geodesics.

A sine qua non, I call it again. And something that people coming to ZFI would naturally expect, given the Forum's name (let's please not change that name).

To define terms: by formal practice I mean the learning and honing of practice-forms from a qualified Zen Buddhist teacher, practiced face-to-face with said Zen Buddhist teacher at least for a time (as has been traditional and defining of the school for 2000 years), and practiced and honed with the sangha surrounding that teacher. One does not need to be nor to have been a monastic to have learned correctly;

By "Zen Buddhist" I mean Ch'an-, Seon-, Thien-, or Zen-Buddhist.

:Namaste:

--Joe
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Re: New team of moderators

Postby Michaeljc on Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:22 pm

Nor am I anti-orthodox. Courses for horses. We all come to this great practice via different paths. In saying that I feel that we can all benefit from exposure to the orthodox training system. Its worthwhile experiencing this unique system that spans back centuries. For some people, much more can come out of it.

I believe that the team of moderators should remain autonomous. There will be challenges for sure and would hope that they will consult with others, including teachers, over difficult situations. There are normally not too many of these IMO
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Re: New team of moderators

Postby macdougdoug on Sun Jan 15, 2017 10:40 am

desert_woodworker wrote:Linda,

Linda Anderson wrote:I have not seen "personal guidance" coming from any moderator.

I agree that that's a good thing!

But, moderators DO "guide" errant posters to remain on topic, or return to it. That's "personal", and is also for the public good.

I agree with Carol that moderators can save a lot of grief in and out of their circle by having certain basic agreements. One of these is on the value of a common basis among them in formal Zen Buddhist practice, as I see it. After, or prior, or following, or combined with that common basis, can be any sort of this-way, that-way other practice experience, in various schools, or non-schools, and the more the better, perhaps, to understand and sympathize with almost all comers' trajectories and geodesics.


I hope to continue posting whatever comes to mind, moderation for me meaning extra work not less posting rights. Gregory Wonderwheel was a moderator if I remember correctly, and he posted all sorts of interesting stuff and participated in debates.

My experience of orthodoxy comes down to at least 1 sesshin or retreat per year since 2003 (burmese vipassana, tibetan, thien, and exclusively zen soto in recent years) and my (nearly) daily zazen practise.
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Re: New team of moderators

Postby desert_woodworker on Sun Jan 15, 2017 2:02 pm

mdd,

macdougdoug wrote:My experience of orthodoxy comes down to at least 1 sesshin or retreat per year since 2003 (burmese vipassana, tibetan, thien, and exclusively zen soto in recent years) and my (nearly) daily zazen practise.

Very best wishes for strong practice,

--Joe
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Re: New team of moderators

Postby Guo Gu on Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:39 am

carol,
for whatever reason you wish to step down as moderator, i hope everything is alright. is gregory also stepping down as moderator?
pls let us know if there's anything we can do to help as a community.
i sent you a pm.
be well,
guo gu
Founder and teacher of Tallahassee Chan Center of the Dharma Drum Lineage of Chan Buddhism
http://www.tallahasseechan.org/
Received inka from Master Sheng Yen (1930-2009) in 1995
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Re: New team of moderators

Postby Carol on Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:29 am

Guo Gu wrote:carol,
for whatever reason you wish to step down as moderator, i hope everything is alright. is gregory also stepping down as moderator?
pls let us know if there's anything we can do to help as a community.
i sent you a pm.
be well,
guo gu


Thanks Guo Gu -- I responded to your PM.

~Carol
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Re: New team of moderators

Postby Michaeljc on Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:51 am

Linda wrote:
Personally, I haven't spent much time on the forum this year. I'm happy to contribute but don't see myself participating on a regular basis


I am wondering how others think about this structure:

macdougdoug and james as working moderators and Linda as a consulting backup to be included if and when ticklish situations arrive. ??

m
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Re: New team of moderators

Postby desert_woodworker on Mon Jan 16, 2017 1:41 pm

Michael, looks like a fine panel.

If Linda really wishes not to moderate, I hope that you yourself might consider being the third to make up the trio (you seem a natural, to me, and I think the others may agree).

Kudos, Admins! (Mods). And Owner. :heya:

--Joe
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