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I like the fact that you have made open for other traditions

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I like the fact that you have made open for other traditions

Postby Lunarious1987 on Tue Jul 12, 2016 5:39 am

Before E-Sanga. The moderators were good within Buddhism. They were like Genkaku said gentle but firm. It was an endurance test to be there. And they were cunningly dealing with one, like a Dog is dealth with by God. They believed they were Gods. Everyone are proud with what they Got. We need to be one, also like Genkaku said.

So came ZFI. Before, i remember, when I was banned for talking about Islam (despite all the commonalities). I was deprived of learning about Buddhism which I was so interested in, so I have limited knowledge. And you don't expect me to leave my loyality to Islam behind in favour of Buddhism? To please you? This is against Buddhism! Buddhism is nothing is essence!

I hope I can talk freely about Islam in all around, and USE the word Islam. Even Buddha says: "If you find something better than what you got, leave what you got and take the better". He doesn't say: "get better at what you already got".

No?

Peace
- Don't be thankful to be righteous. Be righteous to be thankful.
- Shia: "We are the friends/owners of proof, wherever it bends we bend."
- Imam Hussein was once asked: what is affluence? He said : Decreasing your wishes , and being satisfied with what is enough for you.”
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Re: I like the fact that you have made open for other tradit

Postby TigerDuck on Fri Jul 15, 2016 2:15 am

I feel it is good to have an opposite view in the forum, because:
1. It sharpens your skill in many ways.
2. You can see your own weakness.
3. It makes the forum alive and active.

There is nothing in this world that exist as a view or an object. Therefore, there is nothing to be hold or protected.

There is nothing to be rejected and accepted.

If someone is banned, it means there is something there to be hold, which is cherished dearly, afraid to be collapsed.

Through nonconceptuality, he is immovable.

[Nagarjuna]
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Re: I like the fact that you have made open for other tradit

Postby Lunarious1987 on Fri Jul 15, 2016 7:19 pm

If you don't guard yourself, you'll become immoral. You will. So do hold on, good things. But stay detached. And then i believe you'll find your way.
- Don't be thankful to be righteous. Be righteous to be thankful.
- Shia: "We are the friends/owners of proof, wherever it bends we bend."
- Imam Hussein was once asked: what is affluence? He said : Decreasing your wishes , and being satisfied with what is enough for you.”
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Re: I like the fact that you have made open for other tradit

Postby desert_woodworker on Fri Jul 15, 2016 7:56 pm

In Buddhist practice, there is no recommendation of "detachment". That is simply unheard of.

I think that to many, detachment is a very anti-social and amoral stance. No Buddhist practices this or recommends it.

Full-engagement is what Buddhists engage in. That is definitely not detachment.

Non-attachment is a fact that develops as one matures in Buddhist practice. Non-attachment is not "detachment".

Non-attachment is a natural result of correct practice, and I think usually can be counted on to be the case -- or to be "operative" -- following a practitioner's awakening to true nature. Then it's natural. It's a natural consequence of effective and correct practice.

Some practitioners can however actually sometimes take-on the attempt at a practice of non-attachment, non-attachent as a practice, in order to advance on the path, and thereby (one hopes) to reduce one's ensnarement in grasping, but this non-attachment is a very imperfect non-attachment, because it does not take place in the context of one's having yet seen one's true nature, nor of one's yet living in accord with one's true nature. Thus, the "practice-non-attachment" is only a sort of play-acting, and somewhat of a sham, however expedient it may seem in a given circumstance or as a temporary regimen or phase of practice.

Better to let one's correct practice take its course, and allow non-attachment to bloom naturally and reign when all the ground is prepared and the transformation of one's character and life suddenly occur. This is typical of many Buddhist biographies, including that of the founder, Shakyamuni Buddha.

I'm happy to write my thoughts on this, here. They're not entirely only personal, however.

But, really, I'm quite sure that no Buddhist here or anywhere is ever confused about the clear difference between the nature and workings of "detachment" -- as practiced by anti-socials, unfortunate paranoids, and criminal sociopaths -- and that of non-attachment, as realized by Bodhisattvas on the Buddhist path of awakening to the true nature, for oneself and for all beings.

regards,

--Joe
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Re: I like the fact that you have made open for other tradit

Postby Lunarious1987 on Fri Jul 15, 2016 9:02 pm

I believe you call it, non attachment. Zen goes to the throat of the issue, desire and attachment comes first. But then by experience you get detached. Some harness the power of this, like muslim believers and muslims. This is like harnessing the power of hell. Fire.
- Don't be thankful to be righteous. Be righteous to be thankful.
- Shia: "We are the friends/owners of proof, wherever it bends we bend."
- Imam Hussein was once asked: what is affluence? He said : Decreasing your wishes , and being satisfied with what is enough for you.”
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Re: I like the fact that you have made open for other tradit

Postby Lunarious1987 on Fri Jul 15, 2016 9:10 pm

Bodhisattvas detach. That is mahayana bodhisattva.
- Don't be thankful to be righteous. Be righteous to be thankful.
- Shia: "We are the friends/owners of proof, wherever it bends we bend."
- Imam Hussein was once asked: what is affluence? He said : Decreasing your wishes , and being satisfied with what is enough for you.”
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Re: I like the fact that you have made open for other tradit

Postby TigerDuck on Sat Jul 16, 2016 2:12 am

I think it depends on how we define non-attachment, detachment, and aversion.

Basically, If someone avoid involvement with the purpose not to get attach to something, This is just a preliminary practise.

But this practice has an issue if not understood correctly.

At some point in the future, the practise of detachment must be able to make you involve and yet free of it.
If your practise of detachment Continuously make you stay away from the object with the tendency of aversion, then you have done a wrong practise.

The correct Buddhist is someone who involve in anything and yet free of it.

Like the symbol of lotus. You involve in all considered dirty environment, and yet you can stand out as continuously pure.

There is no point, to stay in good area, so you remain good. You are good, simply because you are not tested and not understand the nature of reality.

The point is, you involve in anything, but at the same time, can be free from goodness and badness.

Through nonconceptuality, he is immovable.

[Nagarjuna]
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Re: I like the fact that you have made open for other tradit

Postby desert_woodworker on Sat Jul 16, 2016 2:40 am

It's good not to use the word "detachment" when referring to anything Buddhist.

That is, if we are speaking English.

"Non-attachment" captures the Buddhist concept and reality perfectly.

"Detachment" does not. And it does not because detachment is regularly achieved in non-Buddhist applications by the severing of relationship; by ignoring; or by force or habit of will; or by grudge. All these are negative ways of not associating. They are not Buddhist ways -- not the ways of an awakened person.

T.D. is right that an awakened person can associate with unsavory factors, and not be mired by them. The reason is not that the Buddhist is detached, but is simply non-attached, instead. Without attachment to good or bad, preferred or shunned, one walks a mid-line where only the Present is real and influential, not prejudices of things or persons.

One does not have "an 'attitude' ". One is open to all. But, non-attached to outcomes. This is not "detachment": one is fully engaged, instead. Really, to the maximum.

Only correct practice -- say, with teacher and sangha -- can bring this about, if one is interested in the Zen Buddhist way, for example. Probably, most people here know this. There's no faking it. Faking-it becomes "detachment". Awful.

--Joe
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Re: I like the fact that you have made open for other tradit

Postby desert_woodworker on Sat Jul 16, 2016 2:47 am

Lunarious1987 wrote:Bodhisattvas detach. That is mahayana bodhisattva.

No, that's not true. You have not been reading. Nor evidently received proper teaching.

There is no "detachment" in Buddhism.

"Non-attachment" however is the result of effective and correct practice. It is not detachment.

(see the post just above this which gives a little more general detail. Teachers here, too, can also clarify this point of distinction, if I have not done the trick enough).

--Joe
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Re: I like the fact that you have made open for other tradit

Postby TigerDuck on Sat Jul 16, 2016 3:30 am

what is the difference between detachment and aversion?

Through nonconceptuality, he is immovable.

[Nagarjuna]
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Re: I like the fact that you have made open for other tradit

Postby partofit22 on Sat Jul 16, 2016 7:01 am

Detachment is to remove. Aversion is effort to not come in contact with.
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Re: I like the fact that you have made open for other tradit

Postby partofit22 on Sat Jul 16, 2016 7:02 am

Detachment also means to separate.
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Re: I like the fact that you have made open for other tradit

Postby macdougdoug on Sat Jul 16, 2016 9:32 am

Aversion is : I don't like
Detachment is : I don't care
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Re: I like the fact that you have made open for other tradit

Postby macdougdoug on Sat Jul 16, 2016 9:38 am

Non attachment (if it is possible) : freedom from I
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Re: I like the fact that you have made open for other tradit

Postby Lunarious1987 on Sat Jul 16, 2016 5:27 pm

You're hung up on words. A stone is a stone even if i call it marshmellow.

Have you seen Pokemon? The fight between Pickachu and Raichu (Raichu is evolved Pickachu)? Then Raichu is stronger. But Pickachu is smaller (younger) and faster. Pickachu had willpower and speed, he took out Raichu.

Like Zelda, Link had the gem of wisdom (Emptiness and speed) and courage and willpower. He took out Gandorf who had the gem of power (Advanced). The lesson here is to learn the basics before you get advanced, don't rush it.

Is it clear?

Peace
- Don't be thankful to be righteous. Be righteous to be thankful.
- Shia: "We are the friends/owners of proof, wherever it bends we bend."
- Imam Hussein was once asked: what is affluence? He said : Decreasing your wishes , and being satisfied with what is enough for you.”
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Re: I like the fact that you have made open for other tradit

Postby desert_woodworker on Sun Jul 17, 2016 3:34 am

L.,

Who's hung up on words?

A multitude writers have replied in this thread.

Please take on board the fact that (Buddhist) non-attachment is not "detachment". Folks here have explained how and where they are different.

I grant that the difference under discussion here may not be important to you, as it does not seem that you are a Buddhist practitioner, and you seem to be interested in "other traditions", and not the Buddhadharma. But that's fine.

The members here I think clearly recognize that when you make characterizations of Buddhism, Bodhisattvas, Zen Buddhism, and non-attachment, you do not know what you are talking about.

Now, the good thing about wrong ideas, though, is that they can be corrected, and the good thing about being shown that you are wrong is that you can reform for the better. Opportunity knocks... .

--Joe
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Re: I like the fact that you have made open for other tradit

Postby Lunarious1987 on Sun Jul 17, 2016 4:31 am

You are not wrong. Now. But you don't have the basics. And that's probably normal. And i purchased a zafu yesterday. I tried to meditate alot before but it never worked out for me. So now i am tring againg. I'm intetested in everything. Its just that I might not have time or energy. Now.

Peace
- Don't be thankful to be righteous. Be righteous to be thankful.
- Shia: "We are the friends/owners of proof, wherever it bends we bend."
- Imam Hussein was once asked: what is affluence? He said : Decreasing your wishes , and being satisfied with what is enough for you.”
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Re: I like the fact that you have made open for other tradit

Postby desert_woodworker on Sun Jul 17, 2016 8:45 pm

L.,

Lunarious1987 wrote:Its just that I might not have time or energy. Now.

That too is practice.

For the basics you're interested in, see a genuine teacher. That's the tradition, 'especially' in Zen Buddhism.

--Joe
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Re: I like the fact that you have made open for other tradit

Postby Lunarious1987 on Wed Jul 20, 2016 8:17 pm

Nothing (i mean nothing to be observed).

.
- Don't be thankful to be righteous. Be righteous to be thankful.
- Shia: "We are the friends/owners of proof, wherever it bends we bend."
- Imam Hussein was once asked: what is affluence? He said : Decreasing your wishes , and being satisfied with what is enough for you.”
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Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2016 2:24 pm

Re: I like the fact that you have made open for other tradit

Postby desert_woodworker on Wed Jul 20, 2016 10:17 pm

L.,

Aha, a cloudy night, then (said the Astronomer).

Nothing (i mean nothing to be observed)

--Joe

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