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Taego Order Seminary

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Taego Order Seminary

Postby KarminaPurana on Mon Jul 19, 2010 4:36 pm

I have been reading about this and considering it for some time now. Does anyone have any thoughts or recommendations on this?

http://www.taegozen.net/Seminary.html

thanks :Namaste:
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Re: Taego Order Seminary

Postby Linda Anderson on Mon Jul 19, 2010 5:09 pm

I don't know about it. Just love your name... how did you come by it. Are you aware of that if you use a C and a B, you have another name entirely... Leila at play! ...either way!

Thanks for the smile... and, welcome.

Linda
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Re: Taego Order Seminary

Postby Carol on Mon Jul 19, 2010 5:38 pm

Linda Anderson wrote:I don't know about it. Just love your name... how did you come by it. Are you aware of that if you use a C and a B, you have another name entirely... Leila at play! ...either way!

Thanks for the smile... and, welcome.

Linda


That was the first thing that came to my mind, too. So I youtubed it and just spent some very happy time with it. But didn't come across my favorite piece yet. Can't recall the title, so don't know how to find it.

Sorry for the digression in you topic!
Practitioners who cultivate the personal realization of buddha knowledge dwell in the bliss of whatever is present and do not abandon their practice.
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Re: Taego Order Seminary

Postby Linda Anderson on Mon Jul 19, 2010 5:47 pm

Karmina,
Sorry for the second digression, seems we've hijacked your thread. Hope you enjoy too!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNWpZ-Y_KvU .....Carmina Burana

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Re: Taego Order Seminary

Postby Carol on Mon Jul 19, 2010 5:56 pm

KarminaPurana wrote:I have been reading about this and considering it for some time now. Does anyone have any thoughts or recommendations on this?

http://www.taegozen.net/Seminary.html

thanks :Namaste:


I'm unfamiliar with the Korean Zen schools. We do have a couple of people here practicing Korean Zen. Perhaps they will have something helpful to say.

:Namaste:
Practitioners who cultivate the personal realization of buddha knowledge dwell in the bliss of whatever is present and do not abandon their practice.
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Re: Taego Order Seminary

Postby Dan74 on Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:31 am

I don't know much about it except that this is a married order. My understanding is that married clergy in Korean Buddhism arose following the Japanese invasion in the early 20th Century. After the liberation there were some serious conflicts between the married priests and the celibate monks but it seems to have settled now with each keeping to their temples.

There is a historic account here (written by a Taego priest):

http://www.sonbuddhism.org/history.html

The quote from their website:

The 1600 year Taego order is growing rapidly in part because of its unique seminary and dharma instructor programs.


is misleading IMO, because the married order is a recent thing, not 1600 old. Rather it is Buddhism in Korea that is 1600 old.

_/|\_
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Re: Taego Order Seminary

Postby Carol on Tue Jul 20, 2010 3:48 am

Dan74 wrote:I don't know much about it except that this is a married order. My understanding is that married clergy in Korean Buddhism arose following the Japanese invasion in the early 20th Century. After the liberation there were some serious conflicts between the married priests and the celibate monks but it seems to have settled now with each keeping to their temples.

There is a historic account here (written by a Taego priest):

http://www.sonbuddhism.org/history.html

The quote from their website:

The 1600 year Taego order is growing rapidly in part because of its unique seminary and dharma instructor programs.


is misleading IMO, because the married order is a recent thing, not 1600 old. Rather it is Buddhism in Korea that is 1600 old.

_/|\_


Their account of the schism over married monks is interesting: http://www.sonbuddhism.org/history.html#marriage
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Re: Taego Order Seminary

Postby KarminaPurana on Tue Jul 20, 2010 4:48 pm

hi Carol & Linda, yes, it was intentional. what can I say, just a punny girl? :peace:

anyway the reason I asked is because this program seems like something that someone like me can do. I am not an intellectual and zen is not and should not be an intellectual practice (right?!) but I find online classes very comfortable for my learning style. I took some at the university of phoenix and the hardest part was just paying the bill, the rest was easy, just clicking through powerpoints and then you reflect on them a little bit.

and I don't appreciate the heirarchy (higher arcany?) of the celibate male clergy. I am a woman and I like to ***k, my body is mine. THere it is. I don't like the attitude I see sometimes toward lay practicioners like they're not serious or shouldn't teach from the "traditional" institutions. I feel so strongly that what makes a teacher is not anyone elses approval or whatever "Transmission" gearbox you expect from your "school" but just how your practice is that's it. look at Cherie Huber, she's a great teacher but look at all the gossip all around her.

I guess deep down I feel this is a way for someone like me to get the haters and the "critical" people with nothing better to do than hassle and humilate real Zen practitioners to just shut up. when I point to the certificate on the wall.
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Re: Taego Order Seminary

Postby Carol on Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:08 pm

Hi K-P -- I don't know anything about the Taego Order, so don't have anything to say about what they're offering. But I've found lots of room for women in Zen. I think at this point there may be more women Zen teachers in the west than men, or close to it. And there are some great ones and some not-so-great ones, just like men.

What has helped me most to get deeply into this practice, though, has been to join a sangha and practice with other people. It's not all a bed of roses, people come in all kinds and characters, and "spiritual communities" aren't some kind of utopia without shadows and issues. But, overall, I'd say it's been a good thing for me. Companions on the way have been encouraging, and truly have helped me to look more deeply than I might have done otherwise. A good teacher -- one suited to you and with whom you feel an affinity -- can be an invaluable spiritual friend. So I would encourage you to check a few places out.


:Namaste:
Practitioners who cultivate the personal realization of buddha knowledge dwell in the bliss of whatever is present and do not abandon their practice.
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Re: Taego Order Seminary

Postby Kwanseum on Sat Dec 04, 2010 7:36 am

Hi,
I lived in Korea for ten years and now live in the UK and am attached to the Taego order. I am currently in my first year of doing the course and I recommend it.

However, there is no Taego order in the UK and so I practice with the OBC (Order of Buddhist Contemplatives) which I also recommend.

Let me know if you have any specific questions about the Taego order and I'll let you know.

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Re: Taego Order Seminary

Postby jrcsusman on Sun Jul 10, 2011 4:37 am

I was about to start seminary with the Taego order seminary until I learned (via some web research) about some very serious discriminatory and hateful policies they have for ordaining certain people and doubles standards of behavior for men and women.

When I first inquired with Jongmae Park (the overseas parish bishop) they told me women were welcome to study and ordain as full monks, equal to men. Then, thanks to a post I found online (see it here: http://openskyzen.blogspot.com/2011/05/why-i-would-never-ordain-as-taego-monk.html) I discovered that while women can ordain as monks, they cannot be married even though men can be married.

Also, gay and lesbian people can ordain BUT they also may not have relationships or be married (they must pretend they aren't gay) and if headquarters in Korea finds out they are gay, they will be expelled from the Taego order immediately. Also no one over 55 is welcome and physically challenged people may not be part of the Taego seminary or be ordained by the Taego Order.

Bishop Jongmae Park runs the overeas parish and apparently tells people what they want to hear until you send your money, do your studies, and find out the hard way you are not eligible to participate as an equal.

I find this very offensive and unfair and it has nothing to do with the dharma.
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Re: Taego Order Seminary

Postby So-on Mann on Mon Jul 11, 2011 5:40 am

The best place to make changes is often from the inside... consider it! They could use a force for equality working from within.
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Re: Taego Order Seminary

Postby jigen on Wed Aug 17, 2011 10:31 pm

So-on Mann wrote:The best place to make changes is often from the inside... consider it! They could use a force for equality working from within.

You mean until they are thrown out by the mother order in Korea?
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Re: Taego Order Seminary

Postby jrcsusman on Sun Aug 21, 2011 5:29 am

Exactly--try spending thousands of dollars on a poorly structured seminary program and devoting 2-3 years of your life to an order that could instantly expel you the second they find out you are gay or lesbian, or a heterosexual female who wishes to be married.

It's a backwards and harmful policy that is just plain wrong no matter how anyone tries to frame it.
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Re: Taego Order Seminary

Postby So-on Mann on Sun Sep 25, 2011 9:46 pm

jigen wrote:
So-on Mann wrote:The best place to make changes is often from the inside... consider it! They could use a force for equality working from within.

You mean until they are thrown out by the mother order in Korea?


Yes, then start "Taego Order USA."
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Re: Taego Order Seminary

Postby jrcsusman on Sat Oct 01, 2011 5:49 am

One cannot start a "Taego Order USA" on one's own once expelled by the order. This is the existing Taego Order USA we're talking about here.
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Re: Taego Order Seminary

Postby Kwanseum on Tue Apr 24, 2012 6:57 pm

Things change slowly and Bishop Park is slowly changing the rules for the Overseas parish which has started to feed back to the Korean parish.

I know for a fact that Bishop Park has pushed up the age of the overseas clergy, ordained openly gay monks and people who would be considered 'handicapped' by traditional Korean standards.

The Taego Order is an ancient organisation dating back one and a half thousand years and Bishop Park and the overseas parish is progressive and liberal by these standards and will be more so over the years.
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Re: Taego Order Seminary

Postby jrcsusman on Wed May 23, 2012 3:24 pm

Actually the Taego Order was formed in the early 1970s when 4,000 Chogye monks split and formed their own celibacy-optional group
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Re: Taego Order Seminary

Postby sunyavadi on Thu May 24, 2012 6:18 am

Interesting how gender-identity is non-negotiable. In ancient times, one renounced everything, understanding that ultimately it will all be taken away. Better to give it away, first!
he that knows it, knows it not.
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Re: Taego Order Seminary

Postby Kwanseum on Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:04 am

jrcsusman wrote:Actually the Taego Order was formed in the early 1970s when 4,000 Chogye monks split and formed their own celibacy-optional group


The split was forced on them by the Korean President who was on a mission to cleanse the nation of everything he thought was Japanese and Buddhist. He was a Christian who was trying to undermine Korean Buddhism as many subsequent Presidents have done since - including the current one (eg, taking all the temples off the Korean GPS maps and cutting funding to temples and boosting it to churches).

Buddhism has been undermined for hundreds of years in Korea by the powers that be. Before the Korean war monks and temples had been banished from cities forcing them to practice in the mountains. The only reason monks were allowed in cities was for funerals of their family members. This was because the Confucians who held power didn't want to share any kind of authority with Buddhism and thus banished and undermined them. During the upheaval of the Japanese invasion and following Korean war Buddhists had a breathing space but it turns out that the ruling elate, who are now mainly Christian have taken over from the Confusions with their mission to banish Buddhism - divide and rule being just one of their many methods for doing this!
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