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Become an Expert, or Become a Buddha

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Become an Expert, or Become a Buddha

Postby another_being on Thu Jul 16, 2015 12:01 am

A reminder for myself and for anyone else who may be interested:

From a talk by Zen Master Wu Bong

Question: Sometimes I feel complete, and everything is clear, but then at other times I lose that, and no longer understand. What can you say about this?

Zen Master Wu Bong: Being complete is not dependent on your feeling. Everyone is complete, you are all Buddha. Does that help your life? You have everything! I don’t have anything that you don’t have. Buddha doesn’t have anything you don’t have. Does hearing that help your life? No? So any understanding, even the most wonderful understanding, cannot help you. You are already complete, but until you realize that for yourself; until you become intimate with that; until you digest that understanding so that it becomes yours, it has no power to help you. Maybe sometimes it will make a nice feeling: “I am already complete. I am Buddha. Ahhh . . . ” But feelings change, so you will not remember that you are complete. Understanding that and attaining that are very different. So practicing is necessary.

Q: How can one be Buddha and not be Buddha?

ZMWB: I ask you, what is Buddha?

Q: I have no idea.

ZMWB: That’s correct. That’s Buddha.

Q: But what about people who don’t know that they don’t know?

ZMWB: Those people are the experts. So you have a choice in this life; you can become an expert, or you can not know, and become Buddha. Again this brings us to practicing. No matter what anybody says and no matter how well anything can be explained; it is finally all up to you. The wonderful thing about Buddha’s teaching is that Buddha taught us not to accept something just because a wise person or an expert said it. Don’t accept something because a holy book says that it’s true, or because of tradition. You must find the truth for yourself. Everyone has that capacity. You came to a dharma talk, but no matter how well things are explained and how appealing it may be to you, that alone has no power to change your life. There is a vast gulf between understanding what is being said and actually being able to do it. That’s why having a big question is very important. In Buddhism we talk about bodhicitta. Bodhicitta is propensity toward bodhi or enlightenment. Everybody has that. That question is your bodhicitta. That is the power that brought you here. Bodhicitta is called the seed of enlightenment by some Buddhist scholars, so your seed has already sprouted. Next, you must cultivate it; that cultivation we call practicing. If you take care of this question, then it can grow up, grow up, grow up. Then one day, this flower can bloom. Then you can say, (slapping his knee) “Ah ha.” This “Ah ha” is not the Buddha’s, is not Zen Master Seung Sahn’s, is not Zen Master Wu Bong’s, it is all yours. So everybody must find that, because this world needs you.



http://www.kwanumzen.org/?teaching=become-an-expert-or-become-a-buddha
:Namaste:
"Some people think they are enlightened, some people think they are not enlightened." -- Denko
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Re: Become an Expert, or Become a Buddha

Postby Chrisd on Thu Jul 16, 2015 10:12 am

nice one :)

From beingwithoutself.org

Do not seek outwardly, but get hold of "it," which gushes out of your own mind. If you foolishly look after others’ treasures saying that it is so written in this holy book, or it is thus explained by that wise man, you can never pass through this gate of no-gate.

~Zenkei Shibayama, The Gateless Barrier
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Re: Become an Expert, or Become a Buddha

Postby anka on Thu Jul 16, 2015 1:38 pm

Hopefully I do not take this thread off track.

Another_being do you practice with the kwan um school?
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Re: Become an Expert, or Become a Buddha

Postby desert_woodworker on Thu Jul 16, 2015 4:55 pm

Thanks, a_b.

another_being wrote:From a talk by Zen Master Wu Bong

So you have a choice in this life; you can become an expert, or you can not know, and become Buddha.

I'd say this is a nice restatement of a fact famously expressed in a line of a poem of about 50 fascicles by Ch'an Master Niu T'ou (594-657), "Song of Mind". Niu T'ou was a disciple of the Fourth Patriarch Tao Hsin, and a Dharma Brother of the Fifth Patriarch, Hung Jen (Hongren).

Niu T'ou's line in "Song of Mind" goes:

"Not knowing is knowing the essential." (transl., Sheng Yen)

This is translated by another as:

"Not knowing is the most intimate."

--Joe
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Re: Become an Expert, or Become a Buddha

Postby another_being on Thu Jul 16, 2015 5:37 pm

anka wrote:Hopefully I do not take this thread off track.

Another_being do you practice with the kwan um school?


Hi, anka. No, I do not -- not in any formal way. Just a recovering know-it-all. Catching that Is my lifelong practice.

:peace:

Joe, that's it. Good stuff.
"Some people think they are enlightened, some people think they are not enlightened." -- Denko
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Re: Become an Expert, or Become a Buddha

Postby anka on Thu Jul 16, 2015 5:42 pm

Ah I see.

I asked because I sit with one of their small sanghas near cape cod Massachusetts every week.
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Re: Become an Expert, or Become a Buddha

Postby another_being on Thu Jul 16, 2015 8:56 pm

anka wrote:Ah I see.

I asked because I sit with one of their small sanghas near cape cod Massachusetts every week.


:Namaste:

:peace:
"Some people think they are enlightened, some people think they are not enlightened." -- Denko
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Re: Become an Expert, or Become a Buddha

Postby Michaeljc on Thu Jul 16, 2015 9:04 pm

Nice OP

Thanks, AB :heya:
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Re: Become an Expert, or Become a Buddha

Postby Seeker242 on Thu Jul 16, 2015 11:04 pm

anka wrote:Ah I see.

I asked because I sit with one of their small sanghas near cape cod Massachusetts every week.


I'm from kwan um school. :) We even have a kwan um teacher here on the forum. Judy Roitman (Zen Master Bon Hae). :heya:
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Re: Become an Expert, or Become a Buddha

Postby anka on Thu Jul 16, 2015 11:44 pm

Seeker242 wrote:
I'm from kwan um school. :) We even have a kwan um teacher here on the forum. Judy Roitman (Zen Master Bon Hae). :heya:



That's fantastic. I sit with the Plymouth Zen group. Haven't visited Providence or Cape Cod centers just yet.
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Re: Become an Expert, or Become a Buddha

Postby Seeker242 on Fri Jul 17, 2015 12:49 pm

anka wrote:
Seeker242 wrote:
I'm from kwan um school. :) We even have a kwan um teacher here on the forum. Judy Roitman (Zen Master Bon Hae). :heya:



That's fantastic. I sit with the Plymouth Zen group. Haven't visited Providence or Cape Cod centers just yet.


You're very lucky, you are not very far from providence! I'm 2,000 miles away! :) I would keep an eye out for when they have weekend retreats, those are good and you don't have to miss work, etc. :) Next moth there is a kido chanting retreat. And if you ever get the chance to do all or part of a Kyol che retreat, it's highly recommended. Kyol che is the best. :)

:Namaste:
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Re: Become an Expert, or Become a Buddha

Postby cam101+ on Tue Oct 11, 2016 10:52 pm

Suzuki says the same thing in Zen Mind, Beginners Mind. I am paraphrasing here, but he essentially said that those who don't know that they're suffering have the toughest time of it, which goes against the old saying that ignorance is bliss. Which is right?

Yes, a small, wee koan here.
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Re: Become an Expert, or Become a Buddha

Postby Lunarious1987 on Thu Oct 20, 2016 5:35 am

There are some who says "to wake up". But once I met a Qi Gong instructor on the net, she kept repeating awoken. I told her, I don't know. She said forcefully, no, now you are awoken. Genkaku Kigen (My once Zen teacher) told in his blog that we could remain beginners all of us. Noone needs to be awoken. No force is needed. There is no Master. Except Allah.

In islam there is creation and the elements, on one hand. And Allah on the other. They balance eachother. Islam builds on and improves Christianity which is likened to Buddhism often, and Christians have prescribed on them that their chiefs (priests) are their direct connection with God/Allah. But Islam says you can talk to Allah directly, there is more liberty which can be scary and it is, for many.

Peace
- Don't be thankful to be righteous. Be righteous to be thankful.
- Shia: "We are the friends/owners of proof, wherever it bends we bend."
- Imam Hussein was once asked: what is affluence? He said : Decreasing your wishes , and being satisfied with what is enough for you.”
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Re: Become an Expert, or Become a Buddha

Postby Caodemarte on Thu Oct 20, 2016 3:11 pm

cam101+ wrote:Suzuki says the same thing in Zen Mind, Beginners Mind. I am paraphrasing here, but he essentially said that those who don't know that they're suffering have the toughest time of it, which goes against the old saying that ignorance is bliss. Which is right? ...



Ignorance is not bliss and does not lead to a way out of suffering.
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Re: Become an Expert, or Become a Buddha

Postby Lunarious1987 on Thu Oct 20, 2016 6:08 pm

Caodemarte wrote:
cam101+ wrote:Suzuki says the same thing in Zen Mind, Beginners Mind. I am paraphrasing here, but he essentially said that those who don't know that they're suffering have the toughest time of it, which goes against the old saying that ignorance is bliss. Which is right? ...



Ignorance is not bliss and does not lead to a way out of suffering.

One can burn with the flame of desire. It is not well because you are trying to reach equilibrium, then, something Buddhas hasn't.

In Shia school of thought (Islam). Our leaders says our followers are more patient than us, because we endure what we know while they endure what they don't know about.

Peace
- Don't be thankful to be righteous. Be righteous to be thankful.
- Shia: "We are the friends/owners of proof, wherever it bends we bend."
- Imam Hussein was once asked: what is affluence? He said : Decreasing your wishes , and being satisfied with what is enough for you.”
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Re: Become an Expert, or Become a Buddha

Postby desert_woodworker on Thu Oct 20, 2016 8:09 pm

As the Buddha taught, better to be awake than to "endure". Methods for becoming and being awake is what the Buddha taught.

Granted, correct practice can be difficult in stages, and, so, to have a store and a reserve of resilience, stamina, energy, and strength -- qualities built-up in us from the beginning as we practice -- we can persist through difficult patches of our trek on the Buddhist path.

Well, naturally... .

--Joe
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Re: Become an Expert, or Become a Buddha

Postby Lunarious1987 on Thu Oct 20, 2016 8:47 pm

You feel security under the umbrella of Buddha and priests. But there is no refuge. Flee to Allah. Your security is false. Before when i was noob i considered Buddhists better than me in understanding, i was so afraid and thought inside the box. They told me repeatedly to think outside the box. Well now, the roles have changed, i am more of a thinker outside the box and i see how you are stuck in a rut, a pleasurable rut. Because it feels good you think you are not ignorant or actually mediocrits.

What does Mu mean again? Nothing. What if i told you pain don't exist (for men), there is only endurance coupled with wisdom. Feeling good or compassion is also Mu (non-existent) because one can't really enjoy anyone except himself. Logically i don't exist because i don't have an opposit force, in Buddhism, but in Islam Allah is my opposit. I am his servant and he my master, that allows "legal" self gratification. For example there is celibacy in Christianity and Buddhism but not Islam.

Peace
- Don't be thankful to be righteous. Be righteous to be thankful.
- Shia: "We are the friends/owners of proof, wherever it bends we bend."
- Imam Hussein was once asked: what is affluence? He said : Decreasing your wishes , and being satisfied with what is enough for you.”
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Re: Become an Expert, or Become a Buddha

Postby Lunarious1987 on Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:03 pm

The Quran is so aligned with the truth, that people who don't identify as muslim WILL struggel. It is very hard. But Allah, the only generous giver knows that. And he tells muslims, if someone doesn't agree because it is beyond him, say peace to him. And the Quran also says nothing happens by force, you need to apply correct technique.

Peace
- Don't be thankful to be righteous. Be righteous to be thankful.
- Shia: "We are the friends/owners of proof, wherever it bends we bend."
- Imam Hussein was once asked: what is affluence? He said : Decreasing your wishes , and being satisfied with what is enough for you.”
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Re: Become an Expert, or Become a Buddha

Postby desert_woodworker on Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:05 pm

L.,

This thread is in the "Son Buddhism" area.

Let's discuss Buddhism, yes.

There may be a place for discussion of other religions elsewhere.

--Joe
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Re: Become an Expert, or Become a Buddha

Postby Lunarious1987 on Thu Oct 20, 2016 9:10 pm

I don't respond well to commands, thats not the spirit of Buddhism, it is better to ask suggest or hint. I was only offering peace before you erupted at me. Sorry.
- Don't be thankful to be righteous. Be righteous to be thankful.
- Shia: "We are the friends/owners of proof, wherever it bends we bend."
- Imam Hussein was once asked: what is affluence? He said : Decreasing your wishes , and being satisfied with what is enough for you.”
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