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The Other (Forgotten?) Side of Compassion

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Re: The Other (Forgotten?) Side of Compassion

Postby Linda Anderson on Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:08 am

with all respect for kyosaku, I was trained in how to use it.... but never was Tanto. My place was tenzo... for better or worse, no more.... I had no interest. It was called for when I requested, tho not very often.


desert_woodworker wrote:Linda,

Linda Anderson wrote:don't swing that stick at me :heya:

I think you could stop cooking with gas, and start "cooking" with wood. If you're of a mind to.

Have you been trained, and served, as Tanto? You would be Roshi's attendant, would open and close the zendo, offer Words, and get to "walk the kyosaku", and apply it, when asked-for. This was a position I took to OK in Pat Hawk Roshi's sangha, here (numerous sesshin). And, with my teacher Sheng Yen, a few times back in the day, soon before his passing.

I remember James Ford (now Roshi Ford) being a great Tanto. Batting-average of 1000. Much loved. ;)

--Joe
Not last night,
not this morning;
Melon flowers bloomed.
~ Bassho
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Re: The Other (Forgotten?) Side of Compassion

Postby desert_woodworker on Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:15 am

Linda Anderson wrote:with all respect for kyosaku, I was trained in how to use it.... but never was Tanto. My place was tenzo... for better or worse, no more.... I had no interest. It was called for when I requested, tho not very often.

desert_woodworker wrote:Linda,

Linda Anderson wrote:don't swing that stick at me :heya:

I think you could stop cooking with gas, and start "cooking" with wood. If you're of a mind to.

Have you been trained, and served, as Tanto? You would be Roshi's attendant, would open and close the zendo, offer Words, and get to "walk the kyosaku", and apply it, when asked-for. This was a position I took to OK in Pat Hawk Roshi's sangha, here (numerous sesshin). And, with my teacher Sheng Yen, a few times back in the day, soon before his passing.

I remember James Ford (now Roshi Ford) being a great Tanto. Batting-average of 1000. Much loved. ;)

--Joe


Yes. Tanto has many (the most, besides Roshi) responsibilities. You know it when you fortuitously have a good one.

Same goes for Tenzo.

But, who's picking and choosing?!

--Joe
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Re: The Other (Forgotten?) Side of Compassion

Postby Linda Anderson on Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:16 am

don't get into that Joe.... the arrow hits it's mark
Not last night,
not this morning;
Melon flowers bloomed.
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Re: The Other (Forgotten?) Side of Compassion

Postby desert_woodworker on Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:21 am

Linda,

Linda Anderson wrote:don't get into that Joe.... the arrow hits it's mark

I hung around in the DS 20-plus years, and was eventually covered by the encroaching sea-level.

--Joe
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Re: The Other (Forgotten?) Side of Compassion

Postby Linda Anderson on Tue Sep 05, 2017 3:25 am

:hugs:
Not last night,
not this morning;
Melon flowers bloomed.
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Re: The Other (Forgotten?) Side of Compassion

Postby TTT on Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:04 am

Linda Anderson wrote:
TTT wrote:
Linda Anderson wrote:yes, TTT...

Norman Fischer is one of the folks I was thinking about. Back in the day, I sat with him for a short time... he was too far away to keep going. good folks with him... I was inspired to try bec he was doing a teaching for a month on Dogen's Instructions for the Cook. Then he started with Lojong....


He is a bit of a poet, right?


yes, he is... a dear soul


What do you mean?

:Namaste:
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Re: The Other (Forgotten?) Side of Compassion

Postby Linda Anderson on Tue Sep 05, 2017 4:10 am

TTT wrote:
Linda Anderson wrote:
TTT wrote:
Linda Anderson wrote:yes, TTT...

Norman Fischer is one of the folks I was thinking about. Back in the day, I sat with him for a short time... he was too far away to keep going. good folks with him... I was inspired to try bec he was doing a teaching for a month on Dogen's Instructions for the Cook. Then he started with Lojong....


He is a bit of a poet, right?


yes, he is... a dear soul


What do you mean?

:Namaste:


my idea TTT, Norman speaks as a real and vulnerable being so that we can all relate.... ofc, all of this has a lot of do with my interpretation... but, beyond that, he's just a kind, intelligent and heart based being. so he is dear to me.... lots of ppl will argue about soul.... never mind. he's a gem.... easily recognized.
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Melon flowers bloomed.
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Re: The Other (Forgotten?) Side of Compassion

Postby TTT on Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:14 pm

Linda Anderson wrote:
TTT wrote:
Linda Anderson wrote:
TTT wrote:
Linda Anderson wrote:yes, TTT...

Norman Fischer is one of the folks I was thinking about. Back in the day, I sat with him for a short time... he was too far away to keep going. good folks with him... I was inspired to try bec he was doing a teaching for a month on Dogen's Instructions for the Cook. Then he started with Lojong....


He is a bit of a poet, right?


yes, he is... a dear soul


What do you mean?

:Namaste:


Starting to grasp this thred now.

my idea TTT, Norman speaks as a real and vulnerable being so that we can all relate.... ofc, all of this has a lot of do with my interpretation... but, beyond that, he's just a kind, intelligent and heart based being. so he is dear to me.... lots of ppl will argue about soul.... never mind. he's a gem.... easily recognized.
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Re: The Other (Forgotten?) Side of Compassion

Postby fukasetsu on Tue Sep 05, 2017 12:50 pm

desert_woodworker wrote:I remember James Ford (now Roshi Ford) being a great Tanto. Batting-average of 1000. Much loved. And, Nils Mandoe! ;)

--Joe

three_lacewood_kyosaku.jpg


I saw a kitty! :)

Beautiful sticks Joe, I love sticks, I don't mean a kan shiketsu but the wooden sticks.
Used to flaggelate myself as a kid, but realize this has nothing to do with punishment.
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Re: The Other (Forgotten?) Side of Compassion

Postby desert_woodworker on Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:01 pm

Roger, Marcel,

fukasetsu wrote:I saw a kitty! :)

Right, sir. Her name was "Wayne". She was born to a feral Maine Coon mother under the floorboards of my old house, when I was first renting here in the desert, and before I bought this mud adobe abode. I handled the kittens sufficiently, daily, while the mother was away hunting, most days, so as to socialize them. Then, I adopted the kittens I'd tamed. One kitten, "Robert", didn't get enough of this, and turned back to being feral. All-black "Wayne" was tamed, and I took her with me when I moved-house here to the adobe. She'd gotten the male name "Wayne" before we realized she was a girl, and the name stuck. She lived a good long life and died about ten years ago. Her remains are buried in the yard, and she's pushing-up creosote-bush ("tar-bush") stems and tar-bush flowers to this day, I'd have to say.

--Joe
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Re: The Other (Forgotten?) Side of Compassion

Postby fukasetsu on Tue Sep 05, 2017 1:34 pm

Lovely, has the tree a name given (other then tree)
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Re: The Other (Forgotten?) Side of Compassion

Postby desert_woodworker on Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:44 pm

fukasetsu wrote:Lovely, has the tree a name given (other then tree)

It's just a creosote bush, one of three on the property that I planted 25 years and three months ago. Large!, now, though slow-growing. --Joe
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Re: The Other (Forgotten?) Side of Compassion

Postby fukasetsu on Wed Sep 06, 2017 11:53 am

desert_woodworker wrote:It's just a creosote bush, one of three on the property that I planted 25 years and three months ago. Large!, now, though slow-growing. --Joe


Never seen one Sir, have not lost the child-like wonderment at the mere appearance of anything and everything. :)
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Re: The Other (Forgotten?) Side of Compassion

Postby desert_woodworker on Wed Sep 06, 2017 10:54 pm

M.,

fukasetsu wrote:
desert_woodworker wrote:It's just a creosote bush, one of three on the property that I planted 25 years and three months ago. Large!, now, though slow-growing.

Never seen one Sir, have not lost the child-like wonderment at the mere appearance of anything and everything. :)

"Google" it, Lieutenant.

I can send you some fragrant fronds of the Creosote Bush / Tar Bush, if you like. When you receive them in the mail from me, wet them slightly, and they will release their special perfume (non-toxic, don't worry). Give me your mailing address on PM again, if you would! I'll send you some Creosote Bush by international mail. Why not? What are friends FOR? No baloney... . PM me, 'Jim'!

--Joe

p.s. The SCENT of dampened / wetted Creosote Bush is the smell / scent of the Desert, whenever it RAINS. It's the most welcome scent here, because rain is so very scarce. And, because the scent is so extremely pleasant. Note: it's not YET a scent that's been patented, in perfumery! Hint, hint (if you'd like to become a Millionaire, to surpass fake-president "Trump's" unknown stash, or "worth"; this is really a great scent. Or, ...maybe only desert-dwellers think so? See what you think... . "You be the Judge, Your Honor." -J.
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Re: The Other (Forgotten?) Side of Compassion

Postby fukasetsu on Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:36 pm

desert_woodworker wrote:
I can send you some fragrant fronds of the Creosote Bush / Tar Bush, if you like. When you receive them in the mail from me, wet them slightly, and they will release their special perfume (non-toxic, don't worry). Give me your mailing address on PM again, if you would! I'll send you some Creosote Bush by international mail. Why not? What are friends FOR? No baloney... . PM me, 'Jim'!

--Joe

p.s. The SCENT of dampened / wetted Creosote Bush is the smell / scent of the Desert, whenever it RAINS. It's the most welcome scent here, because rain is so very scarce. And, because the scent is so extremely pleasant. Note: it's not YET a scent that's been patented, in perfumery! Hint, hint (if you'd like to become a Millionaire, to surpass fake-president "Trump's" unknown stash, or "worth"; this is really a great scent. Or, ...maybe only desert-dwellers think so? See what you think... . "You be the Judge, Your Honor." -J.


What a wonderful offer Joe, I'll take it and send you my address. :)
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Re: The Other (Forgotten?) Side of Compassion

Postby bokki on Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:05 pm

thnx Joe 4 d thread!
but there was some bickering in a compassion thread :tongueincheek:
nevertheless, it did remind me of this:
When the Master was about to die, the head monk asked him, “Your Reverence, a hundred years from now where will you be?” “I shall be a water buffalo at the foot of the hill,” said the Master. “Will it be alright for me to follow you?” asked the head monk. “If you follow me, you must hold a stalk of grass in your mouth,” was Puyuan’s reply.

do u have any comments, do u think it relates, what finaly would u reply
or just what u think?
thnx!
b :heya:
Another log on the fire,
10,000 frogs singing in the rain
burst into flames

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Re: The Other (Forgotten?) Side of Compassion

Postby bokki on Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:18 pm

Nanquan said to the assembly, “The buddhas of past present and future do not know it is: cats and cows know it is.”

Wansong gives us a wonderful introduction to this koan:

Becoming a Buddha and being a Patriarch is disliked for wearing a deflied name; wearing horns and fur is pushed to the superior position. This is why “the true light doesn’t shine, great wisdom appears foolish.” There is yet another who is deaf for convenience and pretends not to be skillful—do we know who he is?

oh please someone comment thanks!
b
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10,000 frogs singing in the rain
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Re: The Other (Forgotten?) Side of Compassion

Postby desert_woodworker on Tue Sep 12, 2017 1:40 pm

"Sympathetic Joy" is "the other (forgotten?) side of Compassion", as I was considering it.

So, no; no connection with the several familiar koans mentioned.

--Joe
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Re: The Other (Forgotten?) Side of Compassion

Postby bokki on Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:35 pm

ok, Sir, if those do not meet d topic..
i would b very interested in koans and stories that show this
joyous sympathy, lol

how about this one, it may b close
Have you heard how Zhao Zhou asked Daci,
"What is the substance of wisdom?"
Zhao Zhou laughed aloud.
The next day as Zhao Zhou was sweeping the ground,
Daci said, "What is the substance of wisdom?"
Zhao Zhou threw the broom down,and laughed loudly.


Dogen, informal talks, timeless spring, t. cleary p101
well and many more koans show this, imo
thnx joe
b :heya:
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10,000 frogs singing in the rain
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Re: The Other (Forgotten?) Side of Compassion

Postby desert_woodworker on Tue Sep 12, 2017 7:42 pm

I doubt that koans include examples of sympathetic joy being expressed, or discussed.

But we have at least one Rinzai Zen Buddhist teacher as a member of ZFI; you could ask Meido Roshi about this, for example.

--Joe
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