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Is the buddhahood-in-this-lifetime concept dangerous?

Discussion of general East-Asian Mahayana Buddhism, Sutras & Shastras.

Re: Is the buddhahood-in-this-lifetime concept dangerous?

Postby Lunarious1987 on Sat Nov 05, 2016 4:33 pm

Still you have to understand spoken language, and have a word consequently by effort.

Edit: Allah says he will not waste a workers working.
- Don't be thankful to be righteous. Be righteous to be thankful.
- Shia: "We are the friends/owners of proof, wherever it bends we bend."
- Imam Hussein was once asked: what is affluence? He said : Decreasing your wishes , and being satisfied with what is enough for you.”
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Re: Is the buddhahood-in-this-lifetime concept dangerous?

Postby Humbaba on Sat Nov 05, 2016 8:58 pm

TonyD wrote:In these same schools, we sometime see cases of gurus, roshis, teachers etc abusing their authority (and their students). It's not common, but it does happen. Apparently there develops a misguided perception that a particular teacher has transcended ordinary morality (he's a buddha after all). Predictably, bad consequences ensue.

If people are too full of themselves (I like that English expression), they start to believe they can do what they want. That happens in all walks of life and is a sign that they are lacking insight. In Christianity we have the idea of humility and in Buddhism there is compassion. Can enlightenment be without humility or without compassion? I somehow can't imagine it.
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Re: Is the buddhahood-in-this-lifetime concept dangerous?

Postby Caodemarte on Sat Nov 05, 2016 9:12 pm

Humbaba wrote:
TonyD wrote:In these same schools, we sometime see cases of gurus, roshis, teachers etc abusing their authority (and their students). It's not common, but it does happen. Apparently there develops a misguided perception that a particular teacher has transcended ordinary morality (he's a buddha after all). Predictably, bad consequences ensue.

If people are too full of themselves (I like that English expression), they start to believe they can do what they want. That happens in all walks of life and is a sign that they are lacking insight. In Christianity we have the idea of humility and in Buddhism there is compassion. Can enlightenment be without humility or without compassion? I somehow can't imagine it.


Certainly in Buddhism they cannot be separated.
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Re: Is the buddhahood-in-this-lifetime concept dangerous?

Postby Lunarious1987 on Sat Nov 05, 2016 10:05 pm

It is possible to separate them.
In Islam we have a saying, wrath and anger upon anger or darkness upon darkness.
And then light upon light.

If you have light upon light you can be full of yourself and compassion. Such are kids before they encounter Buddha. Kids are believers.
- Don't be thankful to be righteous. Be righteous to be thankful.
- Shia: "We are the friends/owners of proof, wherever it bends we bend."
- Imam Hussein was once asked: what is affluence? He said : Decreasing your wishes , and being satisfied with what is enough for you.”
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Re: Is the buddhahood-in-this-lifetime concept dangerous?

Postby desert_woodworker on Sun Nov 06, 2016 1:15 am

Humbaba wrote:Can enlightenment be without humility or without compassion? I somehow can't imagine it.

Indeed, good point.

I'd say too that the awakened state itself is beyond imagination, and no use trying. Good to hold no assumptions when going into practice.

--Joe
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Re: Is the buddhahood-in-this-lifetime concept dangerous?

Postby Lunarious1987 on Sun Nov 06, 2016 7:05 am

Abseloutely. What is light upon light?
- Don't be thankful to be righteous. Be righteous to be thankful.
- Shia: "We are the friends/owners of proof, wherever it bends we bend."
- Imam Hussein was once asked: what is affluence? He said : Decreasing your wishes , and being satisfied with what is enough for you.”
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What is light upon light?

Postby Lunarious1987 on Thu Nov 10, 2016 1:19 pm

Usually humans are "focused" and that is the opposit of equilibrium or equanimity (same thing). Therefore they think they got only one hand. Even when they give things to others, they use only "one" hand. Unlike Japan which uses both hands to give, making room for equanimity since you got two hands. Then each hand can carry a candle, a light. So if one is turned off by the wind, he can turn it on by the other one. Like a plan which got several motors to make sure that if one is screwed, then the others will still work. If there were only one motor then then the plane would fall down if the motor breaks.

The light symbolizes life force. Like the body is hot, therefore fire. Fire is associated with animals. Fire is love (although I am not sure about that).

With one light you're enlightened, with two lights one is extra. And it is extra really. It is special equipment for warriors, in case the wind (fart and wind symbolize play) turn turn one off then you can reignite it with the other.

IMO
- Don't be thankful to be righteous. Be righteous to be thankful.
- Shia: "We are the friends/owners of proof, wherever it bends we bend."
- Imam Hussein was once asked: what is affluence? He said : Decreasing your wishes , and being satisfied with what is enough for you.”
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Re: Is the buddhahood-in-this-lifetime concept dangerous?

Postby desert_woodworker on Thu Nov 10, 2016 3:07 pm

(Careful, igniting that flatulence).

--Joe
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Re: Is the buddhahood-in-this-lifetime concept dangerous?

Postby Lunarious1987 on Thu Nov 10, 2016 4:20 pm

Congratulations (sarcastic). If you have done ablution, you have to do it again in order to pray. Because you released wind.

Edit: You would go for the easy wash your mouth! Actually do some Zen bottom purification :PP:
- Don't be thankful to be righteous. Be righteous to be thankful.
- Shia: "We are the friends/owners of proof, wherever it bends we bend."
- Imam Hussein was once asked: what is affluence? He said : Decreasing your wishes , and being satisfied with what is enough for you.”
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Re: Is the buddhahood-in-this-lifetime concept dangerous?

Postby Anders on Fri Nov 11, 2016 10:28 am

For a long time now, I've found the sudden/gradual tihng to be much ado about nothing.

For myself, I have wowed to be in for the very long haul no matter the outcome and aspire to get there as speedily as possible.

The rest is window dressing.
"Even if my body should be burnt to death in the fires of hell
I would endure it for myriad lifetimes
As your companion in practice"
--- Gandavyuha Sutra
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Re: Is the buddhahood-in-this-lifetime concept dangerous?

Postby desert_woodworker on Fri Nov 11, 2016 3:33 pm

Anders,

Anders wrote:For myself, I have wowed to be in for the very long haul no matter the outcome and aspire to get there as speedily as possible.

Strong practice!

(Yes, I'd say that what you mention is the vow of Bodhisattvas everywhere).

And I think that Tony's question in the OP (and in the thread title) is uninformed by Zen Buddhism. I'd say that most Zen Buddhists are confident that this is the only life(time) that is available in which to practice, and, by extension, in which to awaken.

So... "dangerous"? (I echo Tony's question back to him). No! (and there I answer it). In any case, it's well to throw caution about that to the wind, as well as to throw "hope" away to the wind, also, and to just practice, in favorable circumstances.

Guesses -- and worries -- about awakening are only the children of our delusion. What's needed (and practicable) is to genuinely awaken from delusion, and for the mad mind to stop (die).

And so, we practice. But with no goal in mind. "No goal in mind" because Awakening is unimaginable. And anything "in mind" obstructs (derails... ) Awakening.

--Joe
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Re: Is the buddhahood-in-this-lifetime concept dangerous?

Postby Lunarious1987 on Fri Nov 11, 2016 8:47 pm

Keep your subjective thoughts for yourself and do go and wash your mouth. You gotta be stupid to not believe in rebirth, and i add, who boasts about how great he is by his deluded overconfidence. Even i believe in rebirth.

Faith is inversely proportionate to intelligence. So keep your subjective thoughts of yourself to you. Be objective and talk about what Buddha have taught in the Darma. People are here for religion and spirituality, not inconsiderate selfish claims.

Peace
- Don't be thankful to be righteous. Be righteous to be thankful.
- Shia: "We are the friends/owners of proof, wherever it bends we bend."
- Imam Hussein was once asked: what is affluence? He said : Decreasing your wishes , and being satisfied with what is enough for you.”
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Re: Is the buddhahood-in-this-lifetime concept dangerous?

Postby desert_woodworker on Fri Nov 11, 2016 9:52 pm

L.,

Your post is against Terms Of Use. Please delete it now.

--Joe
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Re: Is the buddhahood-in-this-lifetime concept dangerous?

Postby Lunarious1987 on Fri Nov 11, 2016 11:07 pm

Your post is against Dharma. Do you want somebody to delete it for you? You're arrogant.
- Don't be thankful to be righteous. Be righteous to be thankful.
- Shia: "We are the friends/owners of proof, wherever it bends we bend."
- Imam Hussein was once asked: what is affluence? He said : Decreasing your wishes , and being satisfied with what is enough for you.”
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Re: Is the buddhahood-in-this-lifetime concept dangerous?

Postby Lunarious1987 on Sat Nov 12, 2016 12:35 am

@Desert WoodWorker OK sorry. I need blood to thrive, old habit. Care to help me become more social? Aspies are a-social.

Peace
- Don't be thankful to be righteous. Be righteous to be thankful.
- Shia: "We are the friends/owners of proof, wherever it bends we bend."
- Imam Hussein was once asked: what is affluence? He said : Decreasing your wishes , and being satisfied with what is enough for you.”
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Posts: 315
Joined: Mon Jun 27, 2016 2:24 pm

Re: Is the buddhahood-in-this-lifetime concept dangerous?

Postby desert_woodworker on Sat Nov 12, 2016 2:43 am

L.,

Lunarious1987 wrote:Care to help me become more social? Aspies are a-social.

OK: Don't make excuses, put down all habits, and employ mindfulness. That's the best advice I offer.

The Buddha offers the same advice.

And as you know, I also advise you kindly to reside instead at some other site devoted to some other religion that you favor. This site is devoted to Buddhadharma, and especially to Zen Buddhism. It will be better for you there.

--Joe
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Re: Is the buddhahood-in-this-lifetime concept dangerous?

Postby cam101+ on Thu Nov 24, 2016 8:51 pm

Actually, the point of Zen as Dogen, Suzuki, (and I) understand it is that we are already enlightened. It's not "out there" somewhere in the future, it is in this very moment. Meditation and mindfulness allow us to express this, and realize our basic Buddha knowledge that is before thinking. But we have to add to this that no individual is ever enlightened, If "we" were enlightened, then it cancels out the whole thing. I think it was also Suzuki who said there are no enlightened people, only enlightened activity. If ego is operating there cannot be enlightened activity. The world of samsara and suffering is itself enlightened activity. Things simply are what they are.

There is no belief in Zen in rebirth or in anything at all. It is a discipline that starts w/ faith, and later that faith is replaced w/ experiential knowledge. Beliefs, by that I mean unfounded beliefs not based on experiential knowledge, are a hindrance. This is not my idea, Suzuki and many others have said the same thing, but it IS my experience.
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Re: Is the buddhahood-in-this-lifetime concept dangerous?

Postby desert_woodworker on Thu Nov 24, 2016 11:29 pm

Awakening in this life is possible, quite as it happened for Shakyamuni, and is a potential for all.

I think that's all the OP needs to know. It should be cheering.

--Joe
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Re: Is the buddhahood-in-this-lifetime concept dangerous?

Postby Guo Gu on Tue Nov 29, 2016 12:20 am

sadly "buddhahood in this lifetime" is mistakenly understood temporally, socially, doctrinally, objectively, and conceptually... the entangling vines of self.
free,
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Re: Is the buddhahood-in-this-lifetime concept dangerous?

Postby desert_woodworker on Tue Nov 29, 2016 6:44 am

GG,

Guo Gu wrote:sadly "buddhahood in this lifetime" is mistakenly understood temporally, socially, doctrinally, objectively, and conceptually... the entangling vines of self.

Time; Society (?); Doctrine; Objectivity; and proper Conceptualization, then, will tell. If they have not yet already, to someone's satisfaction.

I, for one, will say that awakening is possible, as it was possible -- and actual -- for Shakyamuni. And Shakyamuni awakened in, ...well, ...the ONE lifetime in which he DID awaken.

Q.E.D.,

--Joe
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