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eight winds...

Discussion of Chinese Chán (禪) Buddhism.

Re: eight winds...

Postby Guo Gu on Thu Jul 31, 2014 4:14 am

fuki,
not garbage disposal but compose... there's nothing worthless. everything is useful. just have to put them through the recycling process.
all's well here... amidst it all, windless, clear but dark skies.
be well,
guo gu
Founder and teacher of Tallahassee Chan Center of the Dharma Drum Lineage of Chan Buddhism
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Re: eight winds...

Postby fukasetsu on Thu Jul 31, 2014 10:07 am

Thanks Guo Gu, I will backburn it for a while.
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Re: eight winds...

Postby Avisitor on Tue Aug 05, 2014 2:12 pm

Sometimes it takes a death of someone to give the impetus to motivate one to make changes.
Being slack in my practice, I never got very far. And when LIFE takes over, it doesn't seem to matter much.
But, getting older and having someone significant pass away .. it brings to the forefront the questions which first brought me here.
Is this it?? This LIFE. Is this all there is??

Maybe some turn to religion for their answers and others determine for themselves that there is no God.
I don't know the answers. So, I look to my culture and I look to Buddhism, Zen Buddhism.
So, it starts again. How long this time?? Will I find my answers??
Disclaimer: There is no intent to be offensive in my posts. None was intended and none should be interpreted as such.
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Re: eight winds...

Postby desert_woodworker on Tue Aug 05, 2014 2:34 pm

Av,

I think that "answers" consist actually in a widening of our vision, and in the experience and acknowledgement of an actually wider and deeper participation in life than we ever "thought" before.

From such a point and state of wider insight and sense of participation, previous, or suspected, "answers" about what seemed like major questions seem trite, "hopelessly-theoretical", and unreal.

If one is working with only a partial deck, one of course does not know the contents and nature of the full deck. So, guesses or conclusions about questions-posed, having to do with the full deck, when working only with the partial deck, can be seen as mal-formed, and posed in the light of darkness, instead of the light of light.

Anyway, a searchlight-beam lights up only a fraction of the landscape at a time; it's really pretty un-illuminating and un-informative. It gives a wrong picture entirely.

That's of course where "Practice" comes in. It enables us to waken and widen and naturally fill and recognize the original and true vessel we have always been one of the hands of, rather than in just the small life-boat we thought we'd been sailing in, surrounded by other small life-boats.

Well... strong practice!

best,

--Joe

ps Remember, "getting far" means finally -- or once -- really recognizing where we have always stood. It's a true home-coming, not a "going".

Avisitor wrote:Sometimes it takes a death of someone to give the impetus to motivate one to make changes.
Being slack in my practice, I never got very far. And when LIFE takes over, it doesn't seem to matter much.
But, getting older and having someone significant pass away .. it brings to the forefront the questions which first brought me here.
Is this it?? This LIFE. Is this all there is??

Maybe some turn to religion for their answers and others determine for themselves that there is no God.
I don't know the answers. So, I look to my culture and I look to Buddhism, Zen Buddhism.
So, it starts again. How long this time?? Will I find my answers??
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Re: eight winds...

Postby Avisitor on Tue Aug 05, 2014 4:47 pm

desert_woodworker wrote:Av,
I think that "answers" consist actually in a widening of our vision, and in the experience and acknowledgement of an actually wider and deeper participation in life than we ever "thought" before.
From such a point and state of wider insight and sense of participation, previous, or suspected, "answers" about what seemed like major questions seem trite, "hopelessly-theoretical", and unreal.

I think answers comes from the wisdom that comes from going through the experience.
Whether they are the answers we seek is another matter.


desert_woodworker wrote:If one is working with only a partial deck, one of course does not know the contents and nature of the full deck. So, guesses or conclusions about questions-posed, having to do with the full deck, when working only with the partial deck, can be seen as mal-formed, and posed in the light of darkness, instead of the light of light.

Isn't it said that all have Buddha nature? Then how is the deck only partial?
If we don't already have what we need to find it within ourselves then why practice/sit??

desert_woodworker wrote:Anyway, a searchlight-beam lights up only a fraction of the landscape at a time; it's really pretty un-illuminating and un-informative. It gives a wrong picture entirely.

Hence the three blind men and the elephant ... lol

desert_woodworker wrote:That's of course where "Practice" comes in. It enables us to waken and widen and naturally fill and recognize the original and true vessel we have always been one of the hands of, rather than in just the small life-boat we thought we'd been sailing in, surrounded by other small life-boats.

Well... strong practice!

best,

--Joe

ps Remember, "getting far" means finally -- or once -- really recognizing where we have always stood. It's a true home-coming, not a "going".

Good advice as usual. Thank you.



Edit: I have always considered myself to be a beginner
So pardon me if I overstep
Just that the road seems so familiar to me
Last edited by Avisitor on Wed Aug 06, 2014 12:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: eight winds...

Postby desert_woodworker on Tue Aug 05, 2014 5:14 pm

Av,

Yes! See, that's just the thing. We have the full deck, but we "work" much of the time with only a part of it. Awareness and realization counts for everything.

We're unaware we've got all 52 cards (or 48, if you've inherited the playing of Pinocle as I did), and we view the world as just the cards in our "hand", under the card-table lamp. If we were awake to the full deck, we'd know we hold all the combinations from Royal Flushes to Pairs, say. Anyway, it's always "Full House", unless we are asleep and dreaming we're somewhere else.

BTW, I think it's good at times to consider oneself a "beginner", especially at the beginning. But better not to make a fetish of that. It's still better yet instead, I'd say, to have the sense that we are always breaking new ground (or ...re-gaining it... winning it back again from unending erosion, or inundation). That way, the emphasis is on the work and the territory, not on... "oneself".

I wouldn't want a title, thank you: not even "beginner" (Phooey!, he spits). It holds a person back. :heya:

--Joe

Avisitor wrote:
desert_woodworker wrote:If one is working with only a partial deck, one of course does not know the contents and nature of the full deck. So, guesses or conclusions about questions-posed, having to do with the full deck, when working only with the partial deck, can be seen as mal-formed, and posed in the light of darkness, instead of the light of light.

Isn't it said that all have Buddha nature? Then how is the deck only partial?
If we don't already have what we need to find it within ourselves then why practice/sit??
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Re: eight winds...

Postby Avisitor on Wed Aug 06, 2014 12:11 am

desert_woodworker wrote:I wouldn't want a title, thank you: not even "beginner" (Phooey!, he spits). It holds a person back. :heya:


That is the world we deal with.
People have titles ... Roshi, disciple, monk, teacher, brother, friend, lover, boss, etc.
I haven't given you a title. You have Joe ... desert_woodworker.
But, don't worry. Titles don't stay forever. Like everything else, impermanence, change.
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Re: eight winds...

Postby desert_woodworker on Wed Aug 06, 2014 1:25 am

Av,

That's not a title, it's an alias. Accurate, but not comprehensive. I'm more of a slithery snake than that, I tell you. Call me a woodworker and I'll tell you I'm an Astronomer. Call me an Astronomer, and I'll say I'm W7DXW. And an ex-Philosopher.

"Beginner", beyond a certain day, or week, is a vanity. Better to drop any such characterization, before the weekend. That's my point.

Meanwhile, I go on being a woodworker, in this desert. I have sawdust in my eyebrows. Do you have Beginner's Fairy-Dust in YOURS?? No?

Then... .

:heya:

--Joe

Avisitor wrote:I haven't given you a title. You have Joe ... desert_woodworker.
But, don't worry. Titles don't stay forever. Like everything else, impermanence, change.
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Re: eight winds...

Postby Avisitor on Wed Aug 06, 2014 1:44 am

desert_woodworker wrote:Av,
That's not a title, it's an alias. Accurate, but not comprehensive. I'm more of a slithery snake than that, I tell you. Call me a woodworker and I'll tell you I'm an Astronomer. Call me an Astronomer, and I'll say I'm W7DXW. And an ex-Philosopher.

"Beginner", beyond a certain day, or week, is a vanity. Better to drop any such characterization, before the weekend. That's my point.

Meanwhile, I go on being a woodworker, in this desert. I have sawdust in my eyebrows. Do you have Beginner's Fairy-Dust in YOURS?? No?

Then... .

:heya:

--Joe

Beginner's have fairy dust in their eyes?? .... :lool:
I'll take your advice.
But, for thirty years, it has always seemed like I was always just beginning.
Life takes over and everything else goes to the sides to be checked on later.
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Re: eight winds...

Postby fukasetsu on Wed Aug 06, 2014 9:32 pm

Avisitor wrote:Sometimes it takes a death of someone to give the impetus to motivate one to make changes.
Being slack in my practice, I never got very far. And when LIFE takes over, it doesn't seem to matter much.
But, getting older and having someone significant pass away .. it brings to the forefront the questions which first brought me here.
Is this it?? This LIFE. Is this all there is??


My father died July 30th last week-ish, as usual I do not mourn death nor rejoice birth, so it doesn't change much for me
but I get were your emotional reactivity is coming from, just note that you need to be first before you can conceive of yourself/world/others etc
so when we're speaking 'practise' or 'spiritual inquiry' always make sure you contemplate the primary and not the secondary.
Just pay your respect to everyone you meet, but never make it about yourself. When mind arises do not add a self to it.
And with 'do not' I dont mean a volitional act, just observe how a 'self' arises, understand the mind fully, so whatever the situation or circumstance, everything indeed is a gift for understanding/motivation etc
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Re: eight winds...

Postby [james] on Wed Aug 06, 2014 11:14 pm

fukasetsu wrote:My father died July 30th last week-ish, as usual I do not mourn death nor rejoice birth, so it doesn't change much for me


You may not mourn death but, I have noticed, you always generously and warmly offer your condolences when others here have mentioned their own 'loss'. I hope that you will remember your father in the years to come with the same warm heart.

:O: james
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Re: eight winds...

Postby Avisitor on Thu Aug 07, 2014 12:10 am

fukasetsu wrote:My father died July 30th last week-ish, as usual I do not mourn death nor rejoice birth, so it doesn't change much for me
but I get were your emotional reactivity is coming from, just note that you need to be first before you can conceive of yourself/world/others etc
so when we're speaking 'practise' or 'spiritual inquiry' always make sure you contemplate the primary and not the secondary.
Just pay your respect to everyone you meet, but never make it about yourself. When mind arises do not add a self to it.
And with 'do not' I dont mean a volitional act, just observe how a 'self' arises, understand the mind fully, so whatever the situation or circumstance, everything indeed is a gift for understanding/motivation etc

Thanks for you sentiments.
I am sorry for your loss.
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Re: eight winds...

Postby desert_woodworker on Thu Aug 07, 2014 3:54 am

Av,

Eyebrows, not eyes. So... DO you?

I shower the sawdust out of my eyebrows every day or two (maybe more in Winter... water conservator, here). ;-)

Life does not take over. We yield to what we want to yield to. That's about the size of it.

No blame. No kudos!

Tomorrow is another story. But, it's not independent of today. Nor of ten thousand yesterdays.

Anyway, I think you know the drill. I just betcha that you do. :heya:

"Beginner" is a vanity after about Kindergarten. Ever upwards and onwards.

Strong practice!,

--Joe

Avisitor wrote:Beginner's have fairy dust in their eyes?? .... :lool:
I'll take your advice.
But, for thirty years, it has always seemed like I was always just beginning.
Life takes over and everything else goes to the sides to be checked on later.
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Re: eight winds...

Postby Avisitor on Thu Aug 07, 2014 4:34 am

desert_woodworker wrote:Av,
Life does not take over. We yield to what we want to yield to. That's about the size of it.
Strong practice!,
--Joe

For you life doesn't take over. Your eyes are opened.

Strong practice! :peace:
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Re: eight winds...

Postby desert_woodworker on Thu Aug 07, 2014 4:52 am

Av,

Well, as is befitting an astronomer.

I started professionally in Radio Astronomy, though (lots of staring at computer monitors). Glad to move onwards through InfraRed, to more Visible wavelengths (I hope to stay "visible" a while, yet). ;)

w/ Cheers,

--J.

Avisitor wrote:Your eyes are opened.
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Re: eight winds...

Postby Guo Gu on Mon Oct 05, 2015 2:26 am

hi everyone,
life throws at us all sorts of things... how can these circumstances not be opportunities to practice?

the eight winds blow strong;
let wind be wind.
if something should move us
that's where liberation is found!

be free,
guo gu
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http://www.tallahasseechan.org/
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Re: eight winds...

Postby Michaeljc on Mon Oct 05, 2015 9:40 am

:Namaste:
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Re: eight winds...

Postby Seeker242 on Mon Oct 05, 2015 12:38 pm

Guo Gu wrote:hi everyone,
life throws at us all sorts of things... how can these circumstances not be opportunities to practice?



By ignoring the opportunity and just doing things the old way, because the old way doesn't require any real effort?
Kill a cat, with a dried shit stick, under a cypress tree in the courtyard, while eating three pounds of flax! Only a cow goes Moooo!
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Re: eight winds...

Postby Guo Gu on Sat Oct 10, 2015 5:19 pm

Seeker242 wrote:
Guo Gu wrote:hi everyone,
life throws at us all sorts of things... how can these circumstances not be opportunities to practice?



By ignoring the opportunity and just doing things the old way, because the old way doesn't require any real effort?


perhaps. most times the karmic force is so strong that it is hard for ppl to do otherwise. the thing to remember is that everyone is trying their best... sometimes reading posts and being part of a community such as this forum (if one does not or in addition to having a teacher/sangha) can help one to take steps toward practice and transform their circumstances.

be well,
guo gu
Founder and teacher of Tallahassee Chan Center of the Dharma Drum Lineage of Chan Buddhism
http://www.tallahasseechan.org/
Received inka from Master Sheng Yen (1930-2009) in 1995
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Re: eight winds...

Postby fukasetsu on Tue Oct 20, 2015 12:42 am

Guo Gu wrote:perhaps. most times the karmic force is so strong that it is hard for ppl to do otherwise.


Yeps that's why we need to seek to understand instead of to judge.
"Everyone could have been us" eventhough is and is not do not apply here
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