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What is 'doubt' in Chan huatou practice?

Discussion of Chinese Chán (禪) Buddhism.

Re: What is 'doubt' in Chan huatou practice?

Postby desert_woodworker on Wed Apr 05, 2017 4:48 am

TD, et al.,

I don't and wouldn't subscribe to the tangent view you present, but I use your words and offer the following despite that:

Only three comments, for those interested:

    Wear yourself out with practice that has a focus, so that true and natural practice can dawn, and replace it;

    the point of practice is not to "go far". The point of practice is to fully inhabit where we actually stand now;

    "Direction" in practice may be a fiction, but it is a useful fiction. It is replaced by the natural.
--Joe

TigerDuck wrote:As long as the practice has a focus, we better doubt it, as it won't go far.

As long as the practice has a direction, we better doubt it, as it won't go far.
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Re: What is 'doubt' in Chan huatou practice?

Postby TigerDuck on Wed Apr 05, 2017 5:38 am

The path that we are practising is very important.

We can't expect faulty path will eventually bring out proper result.

If we see what Bodhidharma brought to China was actually the precise view of buddhism. This precise view is so important, because if this is not unlocked, the practice will go to a wrong direction.
And when Bodhidharma went to China, many of the practices have gone to a wrong direction.

What is Mu?
What is sound of one-hand clap?

All those are to unlock the precise view of buddhism.

The question is:
1. We practice to breakthrough that precise view?, or
2. We practice because we need to practice?

If it is No. 2, history has shown, the practice will not necessary bring the practitioner realizing the precise view.

Through nonconceptuality, he is immovable.

[Nagarjuna]
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Re: What is 'doubt' in Chan huatou practice?

Postby jiinlin on Thu Apr 06, 2017 4:20 am

Thank you for all the replies, TigerDuck reply resonate most with me. I had attended quite a few seven days Zen retreat several years ago, but somehow I drifted to more Vipassana practice these days.

Doubt is a way to break the sense of self. And this is a very difficult, as the sense of me is the most dearest thing we have.

The past few days I have been watching videos of Dr Jeffery Martin . He is a researcher who developed a protocol to bring about a permanent change in consciousness. He interviewed many teachers and have come up with four locations where one can land after an enlightenment breakthrough. You can read the four locations in his paper http://nonsymbolic.org/publications/ or at https://insanebraintrain.blogspot.ca/2015/01/jeffrey-martin-locations-of.html

I brought him up so practicioners can see that enlightenment can be different for different people, and I appreciate his effort to categorize them.
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Re: What is 'doubt' in Chan huatou practice?

Postby Guo Gu on Fri Apr 07, 2017 8:19 pm

jiinlin,
i hope this note finds you well. have you read this work, shattering the great doubt (http://www.shambhala.com/shattering-the ... doubt.html) by master sheng yen?
it should clear up any questions you may have.
be well,
guo gu
Founder and teacher of Tallahassee Chan Center of the Dharma Drum Lineage of Chan Buddhism
http://www.tallahasseechan.org/
Received inka from Master Sheng Yen (1930-2009) in 1995
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Re: What is 'doubt' in Chan huatou practice?

Postby desert_woodworker on Sat Apr 08, 2017 3:55 pm

TigerDuck wrote:As long as the practice has a direction, we better doubt it, as it won't go far.

Take just one of our Vows, for consideration. For example:

"Save All Sentient Beings".

What say?: Is that "practice with a direction"?

(TD: ...for your consideration(s). No reply needed).

There are three more Vows. Do you find "Direction" there, too? :tongueincheek:

(no reply needed).

--Joe
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Re: What is 'doubt' in Chan huatou practice?

Postby TigerDuck on Sat Apr 08, 2017 5:37 pm

That is a practice with direction.

You will born with good life, but no liberation.

You definitely know how to born in hell.

But, do you know how to born as God?

Through nonconceptuality, he is immovable.

[Nagarjuna]
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Re: What is 'doubt' in Chan huatou practice?

Postby anka on Sat Apr 08, 2017 8:14 pm

Jok_Hae wrote:
Our little tradition suggests that when someone is doing a task that requires strong attention, then just do that. If the task is more routine, we can pick up our practice. For us, we just raise the question: "What am I?"

thanks,
Keith


Keith,

I am thankfully for this gift from the Kwan Um School. Like many, I answer questions and solve problems at work all day. When I start to get swept up in things I ask myself the one question I have no answer to "What am I?". More often then not the overcast sky becomes partially cloudy and blue can be seen again. This along with Kwan Seum Bosal and zazen are a foundation in my life.
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Re: What is 'doubt' in Chan huatou practice?

Postby desert_woodworker on Sun Apr 09, 2017 3:10 pm

TD,

TigerDuck wrote:That is a practice with direction.

You will born with good life, but no liberation.

I think that you are mixing Hinayana with Mahayana here, or perhaps Pure Land with something else.

Ha!, and to think that for the longest time (!) it seemed you might be closest to being a Chan practitioner! I suppose there's been miscommunication going on. I should be more careful in my reading.

TigerDuck wrote:You definitely know how to born in hell.

Being born or reborn in hell is where bodhisattvas are needed.

TigerDuck wrote:But, do you know how to born as God?

Ain't no such-y thing.

Better to be "reborn" (i.e., to wake up) as a Human, in this, present, life, with all of one's original human inheritances then-and-thereby uncovered and available to be used freely, ...along with and informed by the spontaneous and simultaneous arising of true Wisdom, and true Compassion. One would then conform with or be in harmony with reality (the Tao; "the-way-things-are").

That is Awakening, and available to all, given cooperating causes and conditions, and vows, etc.

Don't let's neglect physical practice, either. ;)

--Joe
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Re: What is 'doubt' in Chan huatou practice?

Postby Jok_Hae on Mon Apr 10, 2017 12:01 am

anka wrote:
Jok_Hae wrote:
Our little tradition suggests that when someone is doing a task that requires strong attention, then just do that. If the task is more routine, we can pick up our practice. For us, we just raise the question: "What am I?"

thanks,
Keith


Keith,

I am thankfully for this gift from the Kwan Um School. Like many, I answer questions and solve problems at work all day. When I start to get swept up in things I ask myself the one question I have no answer to "What am I?". More often then not the overcast sky becomes partially cloudy and blue can be seen again. This along with Kwan Seum Bosal and zazen are a foundation in my life.


Bows to you, Anka. Thanks so much for your practice!

Keith
You make, you get

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