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The Practice of Accepting Adversity (Suffering Injustice)

Discussion of Chinese Chán (禪) Buddhism.

Re: The Practice of Accepting Adversity (Suffering Injustice

Postby Michaeljc on Sun Feb 12, 2017 6:45 pm

I have never minded when a topic strayed away from the the OP. Anyone can bring it back at any time. So rather than start a new topic I will continue on with flutes

Here is Jim langabeer, the guy that brought Zen to NZ. He studied full time under John Daido Loori then started a group on returning to NZ. You may consider sending on example flutemaker, to ask for his opinion. He is very approachable

http://www.prohibitionbigband.co.nz/lea ... langabeer/
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Re: The Practice of Accepting Adversity (Suffering Injustice

Postby flutemaker on Sun Feb 12, 2017 7:25 pm

desert_woodworker wrote:Maybe you mean instead that in certain playing, one does not need or want semi-tones.

I mean that in Indian music there are no semi-tones defined as in modern European (Western) music as an exact 50% between the nearest lower note frequency and the nearest higher note frequency. Even though called "semi-tones" the exact sound to be produced is determined by your ear and not by mathematics. It differs from Western semi-tone by a little bit.

YouTube search phrase to see: "Learn to Play Flute - Half Notes Or Komal Swar [Basic Lessons]".

A well build flute, though yes with only 6 holes, produces continuous [full, infinite, you-name-it] spectrum of frequencies between any of the two [Western] notes, say, if the lower note is with 3 upper holes closed [G4 for the flute on picture], and the higher with the 2 [A4]. By means of gradually opening the hole, little by little, the pitch gradually increases. Combined with skillfully adjusting the blowing angle, and pressure, this allows the flute player to play not only G sharp [A flat], but ANY note pitched in the middle, ANY note whatsoever. In Western terms this gradually going from G to A would be called "glissando". In Hindustani music there are other terms for various effects and ornaments.
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Re: The Practice of Accepting Adversity (Suffering Injustice

Postby flutemaker on Sun Feb 12, 2017 7:34 pm

Michaeljc wrote:I have never minded when a topic strayed away from the the OP. Anyone can bring it back at any time. So rather than start a new topic I will continue on with flutes.

If there were a sub-forum named "SOUND"...

Not exactly on music, or musical instruments, or their application within the context of Buddhist (or not) traditions, not exactly on meditation on sound, nor on the space [field] of sound, or on hearing, not exactly on this or that...

Just Sound.
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Re: The Practice of Accepting Adversity (Suffering Injustice

Postby flutemaker on Sun Feb 12, 2017 7:49 pm

partofit22 wrote:Unsui's last post broke my heart


Here it goes. Bold font mine.

unsui wrote:How to deal with personal crises like divorce?

Realizing that also this state is impermanent and that there is no ”I” doesn't take away this great pain in my heart and my gut. I don't want this happening, it is so much to bear that I am breaking. A place in my mind, I recognize the greed that is driving this, likewise my responsibility in creating the circumstances. I just don't know how to purify my heart. There is no joy or relief, not even after hours of zazen, not even after walks in the sunshine. Have you any advice?
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Re: The Practice of Accepting Adversity (Suffering Injustice

Postby Michaeljc on Sun Feb 12, 2017 9:18 pm

A technique I learnt for myself some years back: Immerse into the unpleasant feeling generated by adversity while sitting. Not only can it heal but also open doors

The stronger the feeling, the more the potential

Just one man’s experience

m
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Re: The Practice of Accepting Adversity (Suffering Injustice

Postby partofit22 on Sun Feb 12, 2017 10:51 pm

flutemaker wrote:
partofit22 wrote:Unsui's last post broke my heart


Here it goes. Bold font mine.

unsui wrote:How to deal with personal crises like divorce?

Realizing that also this state is impermanent and that there is no ”I” doesn't take away this great pain in my heart and my gut. I don't want this happening, it is so much to bear that I am breaking. A place in my mind, I recognize the greed that is driving this, likewise my responsibility in creating the circumstances. I just don't know how to purify my heart. There is no joy or relief, not even after hours of zazen, not even after walks in the sunshine. Have you any advice?


No, not at that time, no relief in sight- I agree- To different degrees we all respond in the same manner after we realize something- Anything- But realizing arrives prior to the arrival of the great pain, it also arrives during (while in the clutches of mind) and as the pain subsides-
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Re: The Practice of Accepting Adversity (Suffering Injustice

Postby Avisitor on Tue Feb 14, 2017 5:30 am

desert_woodworker wrote:James, et al.,

Vis-a-vis karma, [james] wrote:I'm weak. I produce tonnes of it.

And, note that karma has varieties. Some say, "good", and "bad" karma, but we could alternatively say "virtuous" and "troubling", as well, or use other choices of words to more precise effect.

So, it's not all "bad". Look on the bright side! ;)

Incidentally, I'd say that there is action that is not productive of karma. And that is Awakened-action. It is guided by true-Wisdom, and accompanied by true-Compassion.

As an example of a person acting this way, consider our original Teacher, Shakyamuni Buddha. After his awakening under the tree, what karma did he produce?

(a rhetorical question: I do not mean to de-rail the thread).

--Joe

For the awakened one, there is no good Karma and there is no bad Karma .. just a line of actions
And the awakening is not permanent .. so the practice goes on and on
After awakening under the tree, the master planted the seed of Zen Buddhism in the world
And look at the fruit it has born
Disclaimer: There is no intent to be offensive in my posts. None was intended and none should be interpreted as such.
Sorry, got a message that I was not being PC.
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Re: The Practice of Accepting Adversity (Suffering Injustice

Postby desert_woodworker on Sun Feb 19, 2017 4:17 pm

.
flutemaker wrote:There is nothing more painful for me personally than facing adversity, or injustice, caused by people (and not by all kind of natural forces, or disasters).

Understood.

My shih-fu used to teach that we should actually be grateful for such occasions or episodes of seeming-adversity.

He also said that we should prostrate to such people.

'Friends' will not so much help us to see through or dissolve the illusion of a self, while seeming-adversaries (Bodhisattvas, all... ) tend to do so with pretty good efficiency.

A caveat, though, is that we may respond with anger in such cases, instead of with gratitude. Not that anger is not in some cases warranted. But the real caution is that anger is the most destructive of emotions.

At times, even our own Zen Buddhist teacher may seem an 'adversary'. That just means that the relationship is working. ;) And, one is attached and resisting... . Because one is then still... "a one". Proof-positive that there's work to do.

rgds,

--Joe
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Re: The Practice of Accepting Adversity (Suffering Injustice

Postby Avisitor on Mon Feb 20, 2017 4:49 am

flutemaker wrote:There is nothing more painful for me personally than facing adversity, or injustice, caused by people (and not by all kind of natural forces, or disasters). As troubles of this (and many other sorts) tend to appear in series, as my life experience show, the practice of accepting them, irrespective of how Bodhidharma teach, remains the hardest thing, ever.


Believing in adversity and injustice .. natural or otherwise is all part of the show
Release this and there is no need to practice accepting adversity and injustice

The story of the neighbor girl who was discovered to be pregnant
She blamed the Zen student next door. The family goes over accuses him of being the father of the baby.
All he says is, "Is that so?"
The baby is born and the family gives the baby to the student (to raise the child).
All he says is, "Is that so?"
After a while, the mother and the real father miss the baby so much that they confess to the family.
The family goes over to the student and apologizes and ask for the baby back.
All he says is, "Is that so?"

Take what you will from the story. But, leave the baby ... lol

Strong practice .... :coffee:
Disclaimer: There is no intent to be offensive in my posts. None was intended and none should be interpreted as such.
Sorry, got a message that I was not being PC.
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Re: The Practice of Accepting Adversity (Suffering Injustice

Postby fukasetsu on Tue Feb 21, 2017 12:55 am

flutemaker wrote:There is nothing more painful for me personally than facing adversity, or injustice, caused by people (and not by all kind of natural forces, or disasters). As troubles of this (and many other sorts) tend to appear in series, as my life experience show, the practice of accepting them, irrespective of how Bodhidharma teach, remains the hardest thing, ever.


Adversity or injustice are just concepts, you'd have to give an example of what you mean.
I've never had one second in my life having trouble accepting anything, and I use the word accepting but it's a pretty alien concept to me.
Most ppl who cant accept are just complaining about nothing while you never hear those who are really suffering.
I mean can you actually reject that which is? It makes no sense.
Mijn Oude Vriend uit de woestijn begrijpt geen Nederlands. <3
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Re: The Practice of Accepting Adversity (Suffering Injustice

Postby flutemaker on Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:12 pm

fukasetsu wrote:Adversity or injustice are just concepts

This is how the translators put in English the original wording that is in Chinese. So tell this to them and the author.
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Re: The Practice of Accepting Adversity (Suffering Injustice

Postby [james] on Wed Feb 22, 2017 3:18 pm

partofit22 wrote:
flutemaker wrote:
partofit22 wrote:Unsui's last post broke my heart


Here it goes. Bold font mine.

unsui wrote:How to deal with personal crises like divorce?

Realizing that also this state is impermanent and that there is no ”I” doesn't take away this great pain in my heart and my gut. I don't want this happening, it is so much to bear that I am breaking. A place in my mind, I recognize the greed that is driving this, likewise my responsibility in creating the circumstances. I just don't know how to purify my heart. There is no joy or relief, not even after hours of zazen, not even after walks in the sunshine. Have you any advice?


No, not at that time, no relief in sight- I agree- To different degrees we all respond in the same manner after we realize something- Anything- But realizing arrives prior to the arrival of the great pain, it also arrives during (while in the clutches of mind) and as the pain subsides-


Thank you, unsui, for not erasing your posts.
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Re: The Practice of Accepting Adversity (Suffering Injustice

Postby [james] on Wed Feb 22, 2017 3:51 pm

desert_woodworker wrote:I think karma is combusted upon awakening. Is that true of both good and bad karma? I think so.

In the awakened state, we live right on 'the cutting edge' of karma, I like to say. Our account is cleared, and we have no assets, but neither do we have pressing debts. What we do for people and beings is in response to the spontaneous arising of wisdom and compassion, and is not a repayment of a debt, nor a means of garnering favor, but is a natural response.

--Joe


I would offer that we are all always on the cutting edge of karma. Karma is continuously being combusted and created, in balance or out of balance. If an "awakening" arises only to fade away then the account is not cleared and yet the way to clearing is perhaps a little more clear. What we do, in the meantime, at any state or stage, is in the realm of karma arising and passing ... creation and dissolution. How we chose or are inclined to act and react in the upwelling of karma inevitably favours the creation or dissolution of karma. Buddhist practice brings one to the place of being able to chose our actions and helps us be less succeptable to habitual patterns of inclination and reaction.
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Re: The Practice of Accepting Adversity (Suffering Injustice

Postby partofit22 on Fri Feb 24, 2017 2:06 pm

It's ok to consider other ways to make money -- when one way doesn't work out-
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Re: The Practice of Accepting Adversity (Suffering Injustice

Postby flutemaker on Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:57 pm

partofit22 wrote:It's ok to consider other ways to make money -- when one way doesn't work out-

As soon as one starts following the way sooner or later there a point of no return. Beyond that point and until the moment of a break through the life of one such a traveler is way more difficult than that of ordinary people. Many difficulties are of such nature that they are not possible to rightly express. Anyways if there is a question of making money it's resolved by ordinary means. There's no need to continue the topic. The underlying circumstances are not possible to express clearly and the course of discussion will always be off the mark.
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