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Bankei's Bright Virtue

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Bankei's Bright Virtue

Postby deci belle on Mon Sep 05, 2016 8:40 pm

It’s amazing how unstoppable Bankei was in his single-minded drive to get to the bottom of Bright Virtue. He also had to find out for himself that inflicting hardship on himself didn’t resolve the great matter of life and death. Obviously, he didn’t take it easy, and neither should anyone who harbors a fathomless wonder. But the fact is that no one could tell him— not even the one who knew.

When Bankei began teaching, he never changed his story; never varied his approach to telling ordinary people to stay in their inherent underlying unborn mind and not use it to compulsively give rise to the fighting spirit.

He was much loved by great numbers of common folk who overwhelmed his retreats with their sheer numbers in attendance. We never hear about any miracles having been performed to feed them though!!

Perhaps that kind of thing is evidently taken in stride in a certain aspect of the Asian mindset(?), where in parts of China, to ascend to heaven in broad daylight has long been part of the folkloric lexicon when referring to those whose socially recognized expression of bright virtue was sufficient to have had engendered that lofty happenstance.
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Re: Bankei's Bright Virtue

Postby Lunarious1987 on Wed Sep 07, 2016 8:42 pm

I guess, i would call it a Sufi perspective (Original Islamic). A mystical perspective, meaning it involves revelations from higher powers. Buddhism forms the Question, Islam form the answer. Where you have to love everyone in Buddhism, you have to (in my sect, like 20% of Muslims) in Shia Islam take a refraining and hating stance to the devil. The devil according the Quran is made from fire, Angels from light, and what stops both of them, Humans made of earth and water. Clay.

This is other than China. The four elements (five elements) are universal. Even for the unborn mind.

Peace
- Don't be thankful to be righteous. Be righteous to be thankful.
- Shia: "We are the friends/owners of proof, wherever it bends we bend."
- Imam Hussein was once asked: what is affluence? He said : Decreasing your wishes , and being satisfied with what is enough for you.”
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Re: Bankei's Bright Virtue

Postby deci belle on Sat Sep 10, 2016 5:54 pm

The fighting spirit is just another name for the personalistic selfish relativity of the self-reifying human mentality. Stop thinking good or bad. Peace, warring factions, contentious looks, are the stuff of conditional existence. Enlightening being is simply a matter of dealing with what is. Seeing what is, as it is, is the matter of knowing without thinking good or bad, self and other. This is just resting in the highest good. Knowing without thinking good or bad is impersonal awareness— this is the fundamental basis of alighting in bright virtue.

Ultimately, conditions do not matter. Do what you must according to the time, with impersonal motivation. Social movements are rot. Operate in secrecy. This is the ageless directive.

This is not a Sufi teaching. ALL AUTHENTIC TEACHING EXPRESSED ON THIS PLANET IS BY MIND ITSELF. This is the Chan section, therefore I speak in terms of Chan, and issue specific correlates from the taoist school of Complete Reality. Mind itself is unattributable to sufism, buddhism, taoism, shamanism or otherwise. The light of awareness is not separate from distinctions, neither is it the same. Strip away the self and see it as yourself.

Personalistic stances based on self and other are relative— the above comment by Luminarious is exhibiting a complete ignorance of Chan.

That isn't good or bad, it's just ignorant of Chan.

Love isn't a feeling— unless yours' is an emotionalistic perspective. Love, in terms of the absolute, is your mind right now. That's not good or bad. It is what it is— and I hope that, some day, Lumionarious discovers it within himself so he can use it inexhaustibly.

Relative distinctions regarding love and hate are your mind right now too, unfortunately (or not). Resting in one's bright virtue is one's accessible, open, awake, aware nature resting independently of relative conditionalities no different than in terms of the absolute. Why? So one can see penetratingly in terms of reality and act independently of one's conditioned personality without relying on one's own strength. Acting without relying on one's own effort is impersonal accord, and that is what constitutes enlightening activity. If you are in a hurry, this is exhibiting an inability to accept your enlightening function.

Socially derivative commenary as per Luminarious is pablum missing the mouth of the unspeakable. Islam schmislam.

You must discover the basis of reality being Mind within your own skin, Luminarious. That's not like anything— the world is already you. The world being oneself is the working definition of sagehood.

Please study and practice in accord with reality for a long time and you won't need to join with or separate from particulars grounded in relative love and hate. Luminarious' perspective is an extremely limited context completely missing the aim of selfless accord with reality.

Adapting to situations impersonally is accord with reality. This is the only aim of enlightening practice— all else is trickery employed to get rationalists and emotionalists baited into the authentic teachings derived of that which has no attributability. All prior illuminates are the same in terms of their experience of the uncreated absolute and their ability to express that vision in terms of the created.

Suchness is neither one nor the other; this is the meaning of complete reality. It's the middle way. It's not relative to convention. It is entry into inconceivability.

The inability to express the absolute in terms of the conditioned is the same as not knowing in spite of the experience. Just seeing your nature is not enough, people. Sudden enlightenment does not confer buddhahood. Gautama sat for six years after seeing essence. Bodhidharma sat for nine. This is after experiencing enlightenment. Chop wood and carry water before and after is the deal, sorry.

Just jump in and float around in the center of the compass. You won't be deceived. Good and bad are irrelevant in terms of subtle adaption. Bright Virtue is the basis. This is your nature which is not culturally derived, and knows no beginning, end, birth or death.

It is possible to see this.

Chan isn't within conventional mores concerned with understanding or galvanizing behavioral sociology. Understanding Chan is knowing that the world is already none other than yourself. It's not separately existent beyond the skinbag.
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Re: Bankei's Bright Virtue

Postby Lunarious1987 on Sat Sep 10, 2016 10:12 pm

Enlightened people does not mock others and believe they are holders of the truth alone. You did mock Islam, didn't you? Can you simplify your mockery to me? But thank you for the rest. :)

Peace
- Don't be thankful to be righteous. Be righteous to be thankful.
- Shia: "We are the friends/owners of proof, wherever it bends we bend."
- Imam Hussein was once asked: what is affluence? He said : Decreasing your wishes , and being satisfied with what is enough for you.”
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Re: Bankei's Bright Virtue

Postby fukasetsu on Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:29 pm

Luna, there are no enlightened people only enlightened activity (as an infamous Zen teacher once noted)

One of the dangers in religion so also in Buddhism is that people think the awakened always behave a certain fixed way, or has some book of morale and conduct, that is nonsense and only results in copycats and other artificial behaviour.
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Re: Bankei's Bright Virtue

Postby desert_woodworker on Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:14 pm

L., et al.,

Lunarious1987 wrote:The devil according the Quran is made from fire, Angels from light, and what stops both of them, Humans made of earth and water. Clay.

It's all metaphor.

I'd say -- and this is me talking -- that anyone who takes (any... ) scripture literally, is, in fact, actually a heathen.

I studied with an academic teacher of Religion at Columbia in the mid-1970s who was known to say,

"Unfortunately, religion requires imagination." --Prof. Theodore H. Gaster (1906-1992) ***

--Joe

*** http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodor_Gaster
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Re: Bankei's Bright Virtue

Postby [james] on Tue Sep 13, 2016 12:47 am

desert_woodworker wrote:
I studied with an academic teacher of Religion at Columbia in the mid-1970s who was known to say,

"Unfortunately, religion requires imagination." --Prof. Theodore H. Gaster (1906-1992) ***

--Joe

*** http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodor_Gaster


Fortunately, imagination doesn't require religion.
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Re: Bankei's Bright Virtue

Postby desert_woodworker on Tue Sep 13, 2016 1:28 am

Nor skydiving... .

--Joe
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Re: Bankei's Bright Virtue

Postby deci belle on Wed Sep 14, 2016 5:13 pm

Luna, there are no enlightened people only enlightened activity (as an infamous Zen teacher once noted)


Wonderful!!
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Re: Bankei's Bright Virtue

Postby deci belle on Thu Sep 15, 2016 2:01 am

To enter into this aspect more fully, and to loosen the noose of "enlightened" qualities of action (in terms of erroneous rationalism), it should be noted that in such cases, one doesn't act.

Why? It is because one's self-reifying action isn't enlightened. Why? It is because enlightening activity isn't the person. Therefore it is not the person acting, it is enlightening being (Mind). This is not the person. Selfless action is not relative to the person carrying out enlightening activity. This is how enlightening beings transcend karmic evolution while in its midst.

I say enlightening beings only to refer to their potential for adapting impersonally to events. Actually, it is as mr Fu says in terms of his quote: There is only enlightening activity. The reason there are no enlightened people is that enlightening being is mind itself. Those who can carry out transcendent action are only expressing unified awareness in terms of essence, not the person.

Delusion is acting as if the person is subject to external elements separate from the person. There is no such separate personal self in terms of the absolute. Those who act in ignorance of absolute reality are subject to karmic energy because that is what they are working with, whereas those who work directly with essence in the midst of illusion do not partake of creative evolution. Why? It because those who see essence know there is nothing real in terms of created energy. They see conditions and work with its (created) pattern without relying on any pattern themselves. Not relying on pattern is due to selfless awareness at the fore of such individuals' conscious evolution.

Not relying on pattern is the meaning of enlightening beings effecting true spontaneity in terms of adapting enlightenment to conditions.

What this means is that enlightening beings are such by virtue of enlightening being itself. Enlightening being is Mind, your own mind right now. Mind itself is not different than illusion. Enlightening beings do not see illusion, they see reality— whereas ordinary deluded people see the same thing and act on their peculiar personalistic patterns based on karmic momentum and conditioned predilections.

As I said above:
Not relying on pattern is due to selfless awareness at the fore of such individuals' conscious evolution.


Being oblivious of pattern in terms of self-reifying habit energy is the power of selfless awareness. What is selfless awareness? It is nonpsychological awareness. Transcendence of conditioned patterns in oneself and others is the quality of enlightening being expressed by those whose self-refinement has reached a point of entry into the inconceivable. Taoism calls this real knowledge. The nonpsychological is spiritual. This is the entry-point into inconceivability.

As I have said many times before, reality and delusion look the same. Delusion is going along with illusory pattern whereas enlightening activity is seeing through phenomena without denying their characteristics. Enlightening beings adapt selflessly by virtue of open sincere intent and are receptive to the spiritual movement inherent in karmic energy. How is that? Karmic energy and the potential of absolute reality are not different. That's why reality and delusion look the same. Why? They ARE the same.

Enlightening being is the light of awareness that sees reality. Delusion is the light of creation that sees karmic evolution. After all, it's the same light.
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Re: Bankei's Bright Virtue

Postby HePo on Thu Sep 15, 2016 5:36 pm

fukasetsu wrote:Luna, there are no enlightened people only enlightened activity (as an infamous Zen teacher once noted)


Why do you call Shunryu Suzuku an "infamous" Zen teacher?
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Re: Bankei's Bright Virtue

Postby fukasetsu on Sat Sep 17, 2016 3:13 am

HePo wrote:
Why do you call Shunryu Suzuku an "infamous" Zen teacher?


I cannot relate to any why question, can you reform it into a how?
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Re: Bankei's Bright Virtue

Postby HePo on Sat Sep 17, 2016 9:52 am

fukasetsu wrote:
HePo wrote:
Why do you call Shunryu Suzuku an "infamous" Zen teacher?


I cannot relate to any why question, can you reform it into a how?


Sorry for the typo - the Zen teacher's name should be Shunryu Suzuki.

And i am not going to engage in word games with you.
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Re: Bankei's Bright Virtue

Postby desert_woodworker on Sat Sep 17, 2016 2:56 pm

Yes, Marcin (fukasetsu);

WHAT makes you call a respected Zen Buddhist pioneering teacher in the West by such a designation: "infamous"?

I'm just curious.

Because, as we all know -- who know anything... -- that he was indeed instead rightly benevolently famous.

Define "infamous", as you take it. I'll say in advance that you may have it wrong. :tongueincheek:

--Joe

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Re: Bankei's Bright Virtue

Postby Linda Anderson on Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:20 pm

It always amazes me to remember that Suzuki Roshi died in 1971 ... out in these parts, he is alive and well.

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Re: Bankei's Bright Virtue

Postby fukasetsu on Tue Sep 20, 2016 5:08 am

HePo wrote:Sorry for the typo - the Zen teacher's name should be Shunryu Suzuki.

And i am not going to engage in word games with you.


Nothing to do with word games, in daily life in coventional or superficial stuff I also never respond to why's.
But I understand the question now thanks to Joe's comment, my bad due to my English,
I use infamous the same as famous or eminent, so I understand the confusion now.

I won't use infamous anymore since I know what it means now, funny said it for a decade and its the first time someone brought it to my attention thanks to Joe, he has a bit more vocabulary then just "why"
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Re: Bankei's Bright Virtue

Postby Sam on Tue Sep 20, 2016 10:44 pm

Perhaps like valuable and invaluable.
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Re: Bankei's Bright Virtue

Postby desert_woodworker on Wed Sep 21, 2016 2:19 am

Flammable, inflammable.

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Re: Bankei's Bright Virtue

Postby Lunarious1987 on Wed Sep 21, 2016 3:49 am

desert_woodworker wrote:L., et al.,

Lunarious1987 wrote:The devil according the Quran is made from fire, Angels from light, and what stops both of them, Humans made of earth and water. Clay.

It's all metaphor.

I'd say -- and this is me talking -- that anyone who takes (any... ) scripture literally, is, in fact, actually a heathen.

I studied with an academic teacher of Religion at Columbia in the mid-1970s who was known to say,

"Unfortunately, religion requires imagination." --Prof. Theodore H. Gaster (1906-1992) ***
No. It is not metaphor. We are all made of the four five elements. In Hinduism theres monotheism, polytheism is a misconception, and they polytheists worship the elements, one has to worship nothing to not be called "heathen". Heathen is spesifically related to Christianity.

Peace
--Joe

*** http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodor_Gaster
- Don't be thankful to be righteous. Be righteous to be thankful.
- Shia: "We are the friends/owners of proof, wherever it bends we bend."
- Imam Hussein was once asked: what is affluence? He said : Decreasing your wishes , and being satisfied with what is enough for you.”
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Re: Bankei's Bright Virtue

Postby desert_woodworker on Wed Sep 21, 2016 6:07 am

Lunarious1987 wrote:
desert_woodworker wrote:L., et al.,

Lunarious1987 wrote:The devil according the Quran is made from fire, Angels from light, and what stops both of them, Humans made of earth and water. Clay.

It's all metaphor.

I'd say -- and this is me talking -- that anyone who takes (any... ) scripture literally, is, in fact, actually a heathen.

I studied with an academic teacher of Religion at Columbia in the mid-1970s who was known to say,

"Unfortunately, religion requires imagination." --Prof. Theodore H. Gaster (1906-1992) ***

--Joe

*** http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodor_Gaster


No. It is not metaphor. We are all made of the four five elements. In Hinduism theres monotheism, polytheism is a misconception, and they polytheists worship the elements, one has to worship nothing to not be called "heathen". Heathen is spesifically related to Christianity. Peace

No, to your "no". ;)

What YOU wrote (about) is all metaphor. And, nothing wrong with that! Such as Angels, etc.

"Elements" are not the simple things that folks thought they knew in the 7th Century. Mud is not an element. Light is not an element. Except as ...metaphors. You see?

On another topic, literal interpreters of scriptures can he called "heathen" (by me; according to my idiosyncratic criteria) even if they do not profess to be Christian. To me, a heathen is a faithless-believer. Or, a faithless-unbeliever.

Or, the literal interpreters can be seen as worse than heathen: literal interpretation causes problems, primarily because different peoples' literal interpretations DIFFER. Yet, they will defend their view and interpretation because they THINK it is "literal", and true to the text, while others' interpretations and views are contrary to the holy scriptures. Hence, the world has all the schisms we see in religions which are based on Books, with the schismatic sects populated and defended by "literal" interpreters and religionists of their own peculiar type.

Well, it's their right to do as they do, and it seems inevitable that there will be varying takes on almost any theme or topic.

But without imagination, the literal interpreters cannot come to see how anyone else's interpretation can possibly also be "right", or healthy.

Another way to see this is to note that scripture is not Scientific Knowledge. Of course, Scientific Knowledge is subject to the fiercest scrutiny and continuous revision, afforded by the Method used by Science ("the Scientific Method"), and so Scientific Knowledge and understanding is not a fixed body of doctrine, but just the best-fit to the facts that we happen to have, to date, and it's constantly changing.

--Joe
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