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"Wisdom and Compassion Arise from No-Self"

Discussion of Chinese Chán (禪) Buddhism.

Re: "Wisdom and Compassion Arise from No-Self"

Postby Avisitor on Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:40 pm

Where does Zen Buddhism talk about cease mental activity?

Meditation is a mental activity. The method itself states to focus upon breath.
To watch it. Count it. Sense it coming and going.
It is a very specific mental activity.
Foolish people decide that because the instructor says to let thoughts come and go that it means to stop thought or cease mental activity.
Where does an instructor of meditation say to cease mental activity??

Someone takes it all out of context and decides his version is better than the Buddha's teaching??
21st century Zen?? Zen Buddhism is for all of time and those people in it.
One can not change the essence of the Buddha's teachings and expect to become enlightened.

And then to go on preaching, when teachers and other have said that is not Zen Buddhism ....
Shows the extent of the ego behind such ... non sense
Disclaimer: There is no intent to be offensive in my posts. None was intended and none should be interpreted as such.
Sorry, got a message that I was not being PC.
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Re: "Wisdom and Compassion Arise from No-Self"

Postby desert_woodworker on Tue Feb 23, 2016 2:56 pm

chankin1937 wrote:My detractors

Colin, you know it is not you that anyone critiques. It is just your line of baloney.

You know I have always wished you the best with your health issues, mobility challenges, and your life in general. Human life is precious, it's the only life we have in which to practice correctly.

Where it gets dicey is where you tout false teaching, and outer-path practice(s). Such disinformation distracts new-comers and deflects them from Buddhadharma. They don't have the discernment yet to see that you don't have a clue, and do not practice Zen Buddhism, nor have ever practiced Zen Buddhism.

Otherwise, no one detracts from you, yourself, I'm sure everyone would like you to understand. You're jake, Colin. It's just your line of bullsh#@ that is defective.

Compost it; don't post it.

--Joe
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Re: "Wisdom and Compassion Arise from No-Self"

Postby Caodemarte on Tue Feb 23, 2016 3:41 pm

It may be necessary to say that I, and presumably everybody else, have no ill will towards Colin personally. However, due to his refusal to engage in meaningful discourse with people and texts, the constant intellectual dishonesty, and the lack of reason while insisting that others were not rational, I had decided that further engagement with Colin was just feeding attention seeking behavior. Encouraging tantrums is not helpful to anyone.

I, and I hope everybody else, personally wish Colin well. Part of that is wishing he would stop doing so much harm to his mind and spirit. Internet trolling is not healthy behavior; neither is encouraging such behavior.
:Namaste:
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Re: "Wisdom and Compassion Arise from No-Self"

Postby Nonin on Tue Feb 23, 2016 5:34 pm

Yes, engaging in tantrums is not helpful, but sometimes they come up. Sometimes they are expressed, in speech and in writing, and whenever I express them, I regret it, but what can I do? It's too late; it's out there. Colin keeps saying that no one rebuts what he posts or engages in rational discussion, but his view of the self has been engaged rationally and rebutted over and over by many people's expression in this thread of what "no self" means in Buddhism. He can believe whatever he wants to believe about "no self," but when he insists over and over that what he believes is what "no self" is to Buddhist practitioners, my hackles get raised.

I am concerned that newcomers and visitors to this board, who come here to learn about Zen Buddhism and Buddhism in general, will be misled by Colin, so Instead of just shutting up and ignoring him, I feel a need to keep responding to him until he finally gets that he needs to either get it right or go away. Obviously, I'm not the only one who feels this way, for others keep responding to him, and he gets no support from anyone on this board.

Hands palm-to-palm,

Nonin
Soto Zen Buddhist Priest. Transmitted Dharma Heir of Dainin Katagiri Roshi.
Abbot and Head Teacher, Nebraska Zen Center / Heartland Temple, Omaha, Nebraska, USA
http://www.prairiewindzen.org
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Re: "Wisdom and Compassion Arise from No-Self"

Postby partofit22 on Tue Feb 23, 2016 5:55 pm

Nonin wrote:Yes, engaging in tantrums is not helpful, but sometimes they come up. Sometimes they are expressed, in speech and in writing, and whenever I express them, I regret it, but what can I do? It's too late; it's out there. Colin keeps saying that no one rebuts what he posts or engages in rational discussion, but his view of the self has been engaged rationally and rebutted over and over by many people's expression in this thread of what "no self" means in Buddhism. He can believe whatever he wants to believe about "no self," but when he insists over and over that what he believes is what "no self" is to Buddhist practitioners, my hackles get raised.

I am concerned that newcomers and visitors to this board, who come here to learn about Zen Buddhism and Buddhism in general, will be misled by Colin, so Instead of just shutting up and ignoring him, I feel a need to keep responding to him until he finally gets that he needs to either get it right or go away. Obviously, I'm not the only one who feels this way, for others keep responding to him, and he gets no support from anyone on this board.

Hands palm-to-palm,

Nonin


Tantrums could also be viewed as misleading by newcomers- Yet don't fall into category of what needs to "go away"-
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Re: "Wisdom and Compassion Arise from No-Self"

Postby Caodemarte on Tue Feb 23, 2016 6:50 pm

Colin's tantrums are misleading as are his calmer posts. He just keeps insisting that others are ignorant or are irrational if they disagree with his intellectual dishonesty. It is a lot like attempting to deal with a cult of one member!
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Re: "Wisdom and Compassion Arise from No-Self"

Postby desert_woodworker on Tue Feb 23, 2016 8:20 pm

Nonin wrote:I feel a need to keep responding... <snip>

Dear Nonin Roshi, I experience and appreciate this as an outpouring of loving-kindness from you (and from others here who point toward true-Dharma), and an outpouring of genuine Compassion. Thus, metta, and karuna, yes, rising along with prajna.

Just as Nature "intended".

All natural (no artificial ingredients).

In no other wise is there any use responding directly to trolls, because they do what they do just for the attention. We can't let all the air out of their hot-air supply, but can just indicate that what they spout is garbage. Trouble is, this just encourages them to try to blow more hot-air.

To those who doubt the legitimacy of the use of the word "Compassion" (karuna) to such countering of baloney by trolls, I'd say please recall that Compassion is not always a matter of "Sweetness and Light". In fact, it seldom, if ever, is, if it's the real thing.

Hmm, I see that some of my present comments, here, are actually on-topic in this thread. Well, now. :tongueincheek:

(and given an infinitude of time, a roomful of monkeys will type all of Shakespeare; maybe it will happen in this Year of the Red Monkey)

Happy New Year,

--Joe ;)
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Re: "Wisdom and Compassion Arise from No-Self"

Postby chankin1937 on Thu Feb 25, 2016 1:33 pm

Dear Nonin,
Your definition of "self" leaevs nothing behind.
What remains in correct zazen is awareness of a mind liberated from obssessive conscious mental activity.
It's not rocket science. Think about it.
Colin
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Re: "Wisdom and Compassion Arise from No-Self"

Postby Avisitor on Thu Feb 25, 2016 3:08 pm

What is your obsession with cease mental activity?

Drop the bull, already.
That is not Zen Buddhism.
Disclaimer: There is no intent to be offensive in my posts. None was intended and none should be interpreted as such.
Sorry, got a message that I was not being PC.
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Re: "Wisdom and Compassion Arise from No-Self"

Postby desert_woodworker on Thu Feb 25, 2016 3:25 pm

Avisitor wrote:Drop the bull, already.

Yes!, please.

And pick up the Ten Bulls,
...the Ox-herding Pictures!

--Joe

the_ten_bulls.png
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Re: "Wisdom and Compassion Arise from No-Self"

Postby desert_woodworker on Thu Feb 25, 2016 3:55 pm

The states that are important to a practitioner are not what goes on or happens in zazen (I distinguish zazen from vague mentions by others of outer-path "meditation").

What's important is what there is in daily-life, as a unity.

Reality is not dualistic.

"Meditators" make it dualistic. That's one way in which they are not Zen Buddhist, and show themselves to be on other-paths, ...outer-paths, ...non-Buddhist paths, ...practicing other religions.

Theirs is a situation in which a "self" does not get out of the way of prajna and karuna, such that prajna and karuna cannot ever arise. They keep hold upon a "self", or keep bringing one back.

"Dualism, personified!" :tongueincheek:

This is another reason why one needs a teacher if one is to practice Zen Buddhism, particularly at a certain juncture (well, at all junctures, really).

:Namaste:,

--Joe

p.s. (hmph, a 5000th post -- Keyboard has a lot of miles on it, I'll note). -J.
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Re: "Wisdom and Compassion Arise from No-Self"

Postby [james] on Fri Feb 26, 2016 4:05 am

desert_woodworker wrote:p.s. (hmph, a 5000th post -- Keyboard has a lot of miles on it, I'll note). -J.


"hmph".... reminds me of "Major Hoople". Or maybe it's "Bill The Cat".
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Re: "Wisdom and Compassion Arise from No-Self"

Postby chankin1937 on Mon Feb 29, 2016 5:06 pm

Hello Avisitor.
Refer to the zen Masters, They call it "mentation" or " intellection". Dogen is clearer. He just says "without thinking"
What's left is awareness of a mind at rest.

a buddha posting as
Co;in
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Re: "Wisdom and Compassion Arise from No-Self"

Postby chankin1937 on Mon Feb 29, 2016 5:07 pm

Hello Avisitor.
Refer to the zen Masters, They call it "mentation" or " intellection". Dogen is clearer. He just says "without thinking"
What's left is awareness of a mind at rest.

a buddha posting as
Colin
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Re: "Wisdom and Compassion Arise from No-Self"

Postby fukasetsu on Mon Feb 29, 2016 5:21 pm

chankin1937 wrote:Hello Avisitor.
Refer to the zen Masters, They call it "mentation" or " intellection". Dogen is clearer. He just says "without thinking"
What's left is awareness of a mind at rest.

a buddha posting as
Colin


What Dogen (really) says is "do not think even when involved in thought" (the expedient of "no-thought"
In other words do not fabricate a projectionist who projects thoughts by thinking them.
No fixation, no dwelling.

A "calm mind" Colin, is a prerequisite instruction, awareness permeates everything, thoughts or no-thoughts have nothing to do with it,
if you need a practise to reach awareness, that is not awareness at all, no strategy or practise is sufficient really.
The same "rest" or "awareness" you speak of, is there in daily life in whatever occurance, being it in a war zone or on the cushion.

Actually a mind at rest is just spiritual jargon (as is "peace of mind), there is no such thing (as mind) mind is by nature restless.
"peace of mind" is a term for those still grasping at a (false) self.

"a restless mind, a mind at rest" there's no such thing, it's spiritual jargon. Kindergarden stuff, self-grasping, go beyond.
Mijn Oude Vriend uit de woestijn begrijpt geen Nederlands. <3
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Re: "Wisdom and Compassion Arise from No-Self"

Postby Avisitor on Tue Mar 01, 2016 1:07 am

chankin1937 wrote:Refer to the zen Masters, They call it "mentation" or " intellection". Dogen is clearer. He just says "without thinking"
What's left is awareness of a mind at rest.

You miss the truth in that statement and then use it to represent your own ideas.
Buddhism is not about ideas. It is about seeing the truth of one's own nature.


chankin1937 wrote:a buddha posting as
Colin

Now you wish to be known as a Buddha??????????
There seems to be no end to your ego and the way it thinks.

Until you drop this charade, you will never be able to learn anything or to hear anything but your own words echoing and dying out.
Your words do not ring with truth but of a man who hides himself in his own thoughts and beliefs.

Sorry, but there is no need to try to discuss anything with you especially when you will not try to learn.
Please have a good life.
Last edited by Avisitor on Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Disclaimer: There is no intent to be offensive in my posts. None was intended and none should be interpreted as such.
Sorry, got a message that I was not being PC.
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Re: "Wisdom and Compassion Arise from No-Self"

Postby partofit22 on Tue Mar 01, 2016 5:27 am

Will somebody please fill me in on how Colin differs from any other member of this forum- Thank you!
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Re: "Wisdom and Compassion Arise from No-Self"

Postby desert_woodworker on Tue Mar 01, 2016 6:14 am

partofit22 wrote:Will somebody please fill me in on how Colin differs from any other member of this forum- Thank you!

Maybe not in this thread, please.

Start a new thread for that. Say, in the "Anything Else" area. Or use a PM contact.

Thanks!

--Joe
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Re: "Wisdom and Compassion Arise from No-Self"

Postby Avisitor on Tue Mar 01, 2016 2:11 pm

partofit22 wrote:Will somebody please fill me in on how Colin differs from any other member of this forum- Thank you!

What a lovely mind you have.
Disclaimer: There is no intent to be offensive in my posts. None was intended and none should be interpreted as such.
Sorry, got a message that I was not being PC.
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Re: "Wisdom and Compassion Arise from No-Self"

Postby partofit22 on Wed Mar 02, 2016 6:08 am

I didnt think so.
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