Welcome admin !

It is currently Thu Sep 21, 2017 5:03 pm
Pathway:  Board index Zen Discussion Forum Zen Practice & Philosophy Zen Buddhism Chán

There is a trigger… Part 3

Discussion of Chinese Chán (禪) Buddhism.

There is a trigger… Part 3

Postby deci belle on Wed Oct 07, 2015 12:06 am

from Part 2:

BD summarized his post “[ ]”, by stating, “This is not about some elevated status of sudden enlightenment. It’s very ordinary. Very doable.”


Consider that all sudden enlightenment is, in terms of experience relative to what is very ordinary and very doable, is the absolute result of some truly insignificant trigger. In seeing the totality of the being that is going to die, one finally surmises the primal quintessence of the real human with no status.

******************************************************************

That the nature of what is very ordinary and doable is the same as the nature of the experience of the absolute and is triggered in light of conditions spontaneously, impersonally and effortlessly in either case, is why I say that functionally enlightening activity isn’t dependent on sudden enlightenment. Why? Because enlightening function is already your own mind. By conditions meeting, the mind of tao comes to the fore in ordinary situations.

The task of self refinement essentially amounts to independently finding, and putting oneself in, the optimum conscious posture to witness the arising of the mind of tao. This is a point of illumination of real potential. It is seen. There is no anticipatory element. One’s conscious posture is itself the nature of real potential, this sincere open unselfconscious mind. So we say that by seeing potential, one abides in reality. One’s waiting by the gate and door of the Mysterious Female is the valley spirit of open nonreification that does not die. One’s own mind of continuous subtle observation is not a formal meditative practice or state reflecting the doing of the person acting as such beyond the ordinary functioning mind of one’s own enlightening potential.

Actually arriving at the inherent function is moving beyond the zero-point of the intent of the teachings of all prior illuminates.

One never comes to the point of this (arrival) by self-reflective effort. The only effort one can apply is in gradually maintaining the subtle concentration affected by observation of mind by mind in the midst of ordinary situations whether alone or with others. Subtle concentration is effortless effort. Reality can only be used to refine the self while in the midst of the marketplace. In abstracted scenarios, in the mountains, secluded, there is only yin. Only by directly taking up your social function in ordinary society and by operating the subtle takeover in broad daylight is the full power of inherent reality (yang potential) able to be ascertained and absorbed in the course of turning the light around repetitively in alternating evolutionary karmic cycles of created yin and yang.

Being is essentially real knowledge before the first thought. Mind is one. The psychological apparatus is a perfunctory overlay that, through universal human consensus, has taken over the totality of the being that is going to die as best it can— and very well at that, thank you. The primal awareness traditions of Universally Good have been perpetually active throughout eons of human being. It has never been developed as such— it’s inherent; therefore it has no dependence on the subsequent psychological overlay that has developed and changed over time. Therefore, only the nonpsychological is exercised, not the psychological. The Absolute never changes. Inherently the unborn nature of the absolute, enlightened mind is functionally active in the world. Prior illuminates, having subtly risen, can observe conditions and people and potential, in order to adapt knowledge to society unbeknownst to anyone.

Since what is very ordinary and doable is inherent in all people and buddhas, there is no sane reason to obsess over religiosities based on words to determine mental discriminations relative to rote aspects of various traditions throughout time dedicated to meeting enlightening conditions.

Being is essentially real knowledge before the first thought. Get this and preserve this. Leave the sophists to their recreationally mental pastimes.

What is particularly sane is to stop going along in the flow of kinetic patterns of conscious awareness in order to await the return of the Celestial movement from within selfless sincere openness. By doing this we can come to recognize the direction of potential in the midst of situations in order to thereby align (rest) ourselves within its (our) inherent unified properties.

Self-refinement is the course of meeting the inherent selfless intent of the human body of immaterial uncreated awareness: open, sincere, calm, unperturbed, sensitive, effective. So it does not require overt effort; only by resting in constant subtle open sincerity is the naturally harmonizing basis of the being that is going to die with its totality realized gathered, preserved and extended into the functionally expressed mystical vision of perpetual nonorigination. Only then does periodic arising of potential have real power by its integration through the spontaneous activity of enlightening beings.

The triggers aren’t the cause, they’re just indicative of real potential, which is causlessness. They can be anything and nothing at all. Essentially, the trigger is death itself. And why not? All death does is indicate the time of an arising of potential return. Anytime potential arises, it is by virtue of celestial Return.

Return is the action of the Way.





ed note: insert first letter in the entire post; quintessence; insert last period in penultimate paragraph
Last edited by deci belle on Wed Oct 07, 2015 9:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
deci belle
 
Posts: 66
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:32 pm

Re: There is a trigger… Part 3

Postby Chrisd on Wed Oct 07, 2015 1:13 pm

thx for sharings db :heya:
Chrisd
 
Posts: 2293
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:49 pm

Re: There is a trigger… Part 3

Postby Linda Anderson on Wed Oct 07, 2015 4:57 pm

db,
pls put this in context... what about part 1 & 2? Are you quoting this? what is the reference?

"Being is essentially real knowledge before the first thought."
Not last night,
not this morning;
Melon flowers bloomed.
~ Bassho
User avatar
Linda Anderson
 
Posts: 3820
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2009 7:14 pm
Location: Forestville, CA

Re: There is a trigger… Part 3

Postby deci belle on Wed Oct 07, 2015 11:34 pm

Hi Chris❤︎!!

Yes, Linda, hello~ Buddha said, "Refer everything to the self."

You need to be able to grasp the content in the first place, and then put it in context yourself. If you are unable to do so at this time… c'est la vie~ Ultimately, it amounts to the knowledge of nothing whatsoever.

I say the context is inconceivability, so you do not yet grasp (or are unwilling to admit) that the content is not for the purpose of proscribing morally reformative dogma (or even more so, rote practice) ~ but it matters little.

What I write is not better or worse; it just is— there are those for whom I write and those for whom I do not write.

If you can recognize evidence of prior illuminates in my writing, good for you! You may make a fine teacher some day— and if that's the case, you very well ought to be able to.

I make no bones about it in any case. If I write it, I own it.

My published writing has plenty of noted quotes (of lesser-known illuminates)— because I WANT people to know about them. So, I would like to appreciate the fact that you were not being coy in your comment, since it was void of content itself.❤︎

Bonjour, mon amie




ed note: typo 5th paragraph
User avatar
deci belle
 
Posts: 66
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:32 pm

Re: There is a trigger… Part 3

Postby Linda Anderson on Wed Oct 07, 2015 11:53 pm

I asked a simple question... what is the source of the material, that is, was it a quote?

... you said part 3, I was wondering if you had posted part 1 and 2

I did not ask for assumptions about what I grasp
Not last night,
not this morning;
Melon flowers bloomed.
~ Bassho
User avatar
Linda Anderson
 
Posts: 3820
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2009 7:14 pm
Location: Forestville, CA

Re: There is a trigger… Part 3

Postby [james] on Thu Oct 08, 2015 12:36 am

Hi Linda,
You can find parts one and two at 'Lettres d'Alchemie'
james
User avatar
[james]
 
Posts: 433
Joined: Thu Mar 03, 2011 12:07 am

Re: There is a trigger… Part 3

Postby desert_woodworker on Thu Oct 08, 2015 12:43 am

Horse-hockey, the whole honking hectare of hooey, here.

--José
User avatar
desert_woodworker
 
Posts: 7029
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:09 am
Location: southern Arizona, USA

Re: There is a trigger… Part 3

Postby deci belle on Thu Oct 08, 2015 1:06 am

I am not here to coddle perfectly reasonable and logical intellectuals, Linda (that's you).

You do not have sufficient affinity with inconceivability, dear, to pursue your line of questioning (you need to know that).

That which is beyond the context of the psychological apparatus cannot be grasped by the psychological apparatus (that's you, again).

It is obvious that you do not grasp the gist of Part 3 (which, I repeat, is inconceivability), because you are habituated to intellectual contexts.

The only reason I posted Part 3 is because it was the most accessible part in the thread, but not quite accessible to you, unfortunately.

I sincerely mean that, but because your literalism has the upper hand on your intuitive nature, I must necessarily (and without apology) beat you repeatedly until you just go away. Why? Because that is the absolutely best thing for you to do right now. Aren't many ancient Asians quoted as doing so, hmmmm?

In your case, there is no context to construe (my writing is honestly not for your consumption).

If you had had the temerity to PM me in the first place, instead of asking about sources and quotes (when I'm [obviously] speaking directly about your own mind right now) this would be just between you and me.

At this point (and at any other conceivable point), it's not my problem to deal with inappropriate question(er)s. So, as you can see, I don't have any problem dealing with this (even though I don't want to).

The reason your comments were void of content was because you are unable or unwilling to ADDRESS THE CONTENT of the post, therefore, all you can do (to assert yourself) is require proof of something to satisfy your INTELLECT (and you and I both know that's a total ruse.)

Even so, mind is one (hint, hint).

Some famous Asian once said looooong time ago, I quote, "You ask. That's why you're wrong".

Another famous Asian once said loooooong ago, I quote, "It's not my problem". REALLY!

Now please go away.❤︎
User avatar
deci belle
 
Posts: 66
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:32 pm

Re: There is a trigger… Part 3

Postby Linda Anderson on Thu Oct 08, 2015 1:08 am

deci belle wrote:Now please go away.❤︎


rest assured, I have :heya:
Not last night,
not this morning;
Melon flowers bloomed.
~ Bassho
User avatar
Linda Anderson
 
Posts: 3820
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2009 7:14 pm
Location: Forestville, CA

Re: There is a trigger… Part 3

Postby desert_woodworker on Thu Oct 08, 2015 1:18 am

Linda!, welcome. ;)

--Joe
User avatar
desert_woodworker
 
Posts: 7029
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:09 am
Location: southern Arizona, USA

Re: There is a trigger… Part 3

Postby Michaeljc on Thu Oct 08, 2015 2:20 am

Hi - Jinx :lol2:
User avatar
Michaeljc
 
Posts: 3659
Joined: Fri May 06, 2011 3:36 pm
Location: Raglan New Zealand

Re: There is a trigger… Part 3

Postby deci belle on Mon Oct 12, 2015 5:56 pm

If people only knew that their karmically bound delusional existence only depends on an unconscious, arbitrary stream of conceptual word-thoughts, they would laugh in disbelief. The literal mind that conceives of questions for sources, quotes and word-based references of what is nonoriginated is false.

Those who are not ready to read my writing are those who cannot see the familiarity in themselves by recognizing it in my words. Either that, or they actually try to think of something else based on the words, and destroy the potential themselves. Inconceivable reality cannot by understood rationally because it is already your own complete, perfect and living aware potential. One simply must awaken to its complete, perfect living aware potential by turning the light around to shine on its source— and cease acting based on thoughts and emotions.

The only reference there is is oneself. That’s why Buddha said, “Refer everything to the self.” The true self-reference of Tathagatas cannot be thought of.
User avatar
deci belle
 
Posts: 66
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:32 pm

Re: There is a trigger… Part 3

Postby desert_woodworker on Mon Oct 12, 2015 7:11 pm

db,

deci belle wrote: ...it is already your own complete, perfect and living aware potential. One simply must awaken to its complete, perfect living aware potential by turning the light around to shine on its source— and cease acting based on thoughts and emotions.

Although that is true in effect, it is not an effect brought about by an act of will, but by the cause(s) of correct practice.

You have posted in the "Ch'an" area. So let's talk in terms of Ch'an.

In Ch'an circles, correct practice is learned with teacher and sangha, and practiced with them, as well as wherever the practitioner goes or stays. Your writing(s) would not be useful to such practitioners, nor would such writing be given any heed or credence. Thus, you write for no one.

No one needs to be "ready" to read what you write. All one needs instead is to see the uselessness in it, its false-intellectuality, and the egoism of your pretense.

You might as well leave the field and hang up your cleats. Or, resolve yourself to post in, say, the "Anything Else" area.

--Joe
User avatar
desert_woodworker
 
Posts: 7029
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:09 am
Location: southern Arizona, USA

Re: There is a trigger… Part 3

Postby Avisitor on Tue Oct 13, 2015 1:23 pm

The winds have not changed
They blow steady in the direction away from the house
Wondering here or not here, time and no time, nothing changes and everything changes

Where is this trigger?
On a gun? On the wings of a bird? Or on a tinge of a sound from a bell?

Dust in the wind, all we are is ...
Disclaimer: There is no intent to be offensive in my posts. None was intended and none should be interpreted as such.
User avatar
Avisitor
 
Posts: 1696
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:43 pm

Re: There is a trigger… Part 3

Postby chankin1937 on Tue Oct 13, 2015 2:23 pm

Deci belle wrote ( among a lot of other material) : The literal mind that conceives of questions for sources, quotes and word-based references of what is nonoriginated is false.


Hello Deci Belle.
So they are your own ideas.
Perhaps they would become more accessible to us if you could be more concise.
After all, the Buddha encapsulated it in one sentence - loooong ago.
“Nirvana is the extinction of desire.”
Colin
chankin1937
 

Re: There is a trigger… Part 3

Postby desert_woodworker on Tue Oct 13, 2015 5:37 pm

db,

I think that what you need is a blog.

Attempts at interaction in a discussion-forum are not working for you ...because, well, ...you are not working for discussion, but for display.

Peacock!

But, just not attractive. Repulsive!

(your true friend will always tell you the truth),

:heya:

--Joe
User avatar
desert_woodworker
 
Posts: 7029
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:09 am
Location: southern Arizona, USA

Re: There is a trigger… Part 3

Postby deci belle on Fri Oct 16, 2015 12:03 am

Will is perforce intent. True intent is impersonal. This is innate, unattributable, primal and selfless.

Practice in any context is a secondary referent.

To take a position relative to practice, per se, has already missed the primary incipience where resting in the highest good being the wellspring of Suchness is already in practice, in terms of its selfless actualization responding to the inherent potential arising by virtue of everyday ordinary situations.

In other words, the true Dharma is not done.

Doing is relative to the personality, and this is not akin to the function of enlightening being, which is neither absolute nor temporal; therefore abiding in terms of the subtle spiritual operation within Suchness.

This is not the practice of the caliber of which you speak, because, again, one doesn't do it.

You may insist on calling it practice, but anyone can call it that after they have seen it.

Who sees its potential before you can see the result?

The truth is, no one responds …how then can this be called practice~ and who would dare to infer it as such?
User avatar
deci belle
 
Posts: 66
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:32 pm

Re: There is a trigger… Part 3

Postby Linda Anderson on Fri Oct 16, 2015 6:42 am

why do the doggies bark?
Last edited by Linda Anderson on Fri Oct 16, 2015 6:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Not last night,
not this morning;
Melon flowers bloomed.
~ Bassho
User avatar
Linda Anderson
 
Posts: 3820
Joined: Mon Feb 09, 2009 7:14 pm
Location: Forestville, CA

Re: There is a trigger… Part 3

Postby chankin1937 on Fri Oct 16, 2015 2:45 pm

deci belle wrote: In other words, the true Dharma is not done.
Doing is relative to the personality, and this is not akin to the function of enlightening being, which is neither absolute nor temporal; therefore abiding in terms of the subtle spiritual operation within Suchness.
This is not the practice of the caliber of which you speak, because, again, one doesn't do it.
The truth is, no one responds …how then can this be called practice~ and who would dare to infer it as such?


Hello deci belle,
I think everybody posting here is pretty clear on how to practice – you don’t do anything .
That is the practice.
During meditation you alertly observe while allowing all thoughts to melt away - waiting patiently for the great treasure of Zen to reveal itself.

Who sees its potential before you can see the result?


Perhaps you have to see the potential before you are persuaded to even start the quest.
Good luck with your next lexicographical enterprise.
Colin
chankin1937
 

Re: There is a trigger… Part 3

Postby deci belle on Sun Oct 18, 2015 5:42 am

But you still say "you". Evidently, this much is not clear yet. You who do practice are stuck without realizing it and do not actualize passing through passing through. Only this is enlightening activity. Just this is the nature of Kasyapa's smile, and its application.

When you see your nature, what isn't doing will be clarified, you will know what's not you— and your compulsion to act will be history.

But I make it clear over and over that one's inherent enlightening function isn't dependent on the sudden. Not only isn't it done, it is not done by oneself. It is all a matter of seeing reality with one's awakened Dharma-eye, which is a spiritual property dependent on the situation itself. The term the world is the sage has real power behind it. The entire sphere of creative (karmic) evolution is itself the totality of (manifest) spiritual potential. It's not different than the absolute, and neither is it the same. Buddhas see this and worldlings don't.

Suchness: it's the same reality behind the name Complete Reality. This is the highest teaching of Chan and Taoism.

I also say over and over that delusion does not look different that reality. One's Dharma-eye IS the situation. If you see this, there's no you because the world coming into being IS you, so there's just immediate selfless response (selflessness isn't in any way akin to the one-dimensional self-conscious saccharine-compassion outsider's view of saintly social-workers). It means you have no absolute created identity, so the enlightened perspective isn't relative to the person. In seeing, potential is released. That is all.

Study the 16th section of the Laotzi; "…preserve the utmost quiet: as myriad things act in concert, I thereby observe Return." Utmost quiet is the effective sublimation of the psychological apparatus of the being that is going to die; the personality or ego-consciousness's habitual projections.

From time to time, in a trice, one's subtle spiritual function arises. It is a matter of awareness, itself. It's one's aware subtle observation being your true identity (again, it's not you practicing). To the degree you are knowledgeably, effectively selfless, in the absolute sense, is the degree to which you effect the subtle function, spontaneously, in response to situations, by the Virtue of the Receptive. That is, by being a selflessly receptive seeing of reality as is, in whatever situation defines it, you gather this much potential (in the taoist spiritually alchemic sense). In the alchemic sense, releasing potential is knowing neither absolute nor temporal.

This is precisely the working definition of Suchness, as is, in terms of buddhist terminology applied to reality.

I'm talking about reality. It's not about logic. It ISN'T anything to do with any historical literal sense that can be footnoted, quoted or referenced by conventional means for conventional philosophical literalists. Damn the literalists— East Mountain walks on water!! It isn't Buddhism, per se. Enlightenment isn't a product of anything. The tao isn't taoist. Buddha is your enlightened mind, but neither does Mind exist. There is no thing. All the authentic teachings are not responsible for reality, much less the reality of which they speak (in terms of practice) because it's only a temporary expedient, after all, adapted to current conditions, which is itself temporally attributable. They're just the culturally grounded mnemonic traditions that are presently helping to keep the knowledge alive, that's all. Real buddhists know better than to be buddhists. The source of religions is Mind. Here we're concerned with the source, not the temporary expedient called Buddhism. Reality is essentially immaterial— in terms of the essence of human nature, it is utterly selfless.

It's who we are. Seeing the totality of the being that is going to die is a spontaneous realization, whether it be bodhicitta, the absolute, or the reality-body of buddhas. It is all neither good nor bad. That's absolute right now, right here. The ancient dictum is to see essence on your own, then seek a teacher. Why? Because essence cannot be taught. IT'S YOU. Taoism calls this the science of essence. On the other hand, the science of life (its application) generally requires a teacher. So that doesn't have to wait for after experiencing nonorigination. It's just that people should not depend on anyone other than themselves to awaken themselves.

No one can do that for you. Why? Primarily because you have no self. Non-self cannot show no-self. The psychological apparatus has never ever been invited to that raging rave before time. No one knows, but you can see it yourself as itself. Just drop the skin-bag.

Understand that neither is this is for me. My purpose isn't for the person. Not any person. We are all phantoms. I don't mind being criticized by those stuck in a self-serving conventional perspective conveniently limited by social mores. I do not rely on convention. Whoever sees anything in my words sees it in themselves. Reality is not by a tradition. One must be fiercely independent. No one's forcing them to read my threads (I wonder why they do?). Their guiding principle is relative, after all. That's why I say it's not my problem. I don't write for those folks. Not only is the absolute beyond description, its (enlightening) application in everyday ordinary situations is beyond words. Let the well-qualified baby-sitters (that's not entirely pejorative, just descriptive), promulgate restorative practice, for those who need to practice, but don't make the mistake of imagining that the Supreme Vehicle of adepts, buddhas, wizards, saints and sages is a matter of practice.

It's called the Supreme Vehicle for a reason~ but you'd have the keys to know that, now wouldn't you, hmmmm?




ed note: tweak 1st paragraph
User avatar
deci belle
 
Posts: 66
Joined: Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:32 pm

Next

Return to Chán

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron
 
RocketTheme Joomla Templates

Who is online

In total there is 1 user online :: 0 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 157 on Mon Sep 19, 2016 8:44 am

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest