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Sufi meditation

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Sufi meditation

Postby Lunarious1987 on Wed Aug 10, 2016 4:11 am

Hello all. How are you?

I want to talk about Sufi meditation. My sufi friend gave me a breath control excersice. He said:

-On the floor sit cross legged on your prayer rug in direction of Mecca (sitting on the floor is an act of humbleness)
-Then with short thoughts and words of intention start the exercise; the intention is why you are doing what you are getting ready to do: the intention is to get breath control and clear the mind.
-Exhale as deep as you can
-As you inhale as slow as possible breathe in thru the nose, and say in your mind “In the name of Allah” spread these words out so when you start with the inhaling you start with the words and at the end of the words you end the inhaling
-Hold for around 3 seconds
-Exhale as slow as possible also thru the nose and say in your mind “By the Will of Allah” again spread these words out so when you start with the exhaling you start with the words and at the end of the words you end the exhaling.
-Repeat

But I also want to meditate on a Zafu and think, for myself and not for Allah and peace. I want to think and reflect. Do you guys hold your breath too? How do you do it? I've asked before, but the response was bad. Not Generous.

Peace
- Don't be thankful to be righteous. Be righteous to be thankful.
- Shia: "We are the friends/owners of proof, wherever it bends we bend."
- Imam Hussein was once asked: what is affluence? He said : Decreasing your wishes , and being satisfied with what is enough for you.”
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Re: Sufi meditation

Postby TigerDuck on Wed Aug 10, 2016 6:56 am

Yes, you can do that.

That kind of meditation belongs to samantha meditation, where it can calm you down.

Through nonconceptuality, he is immovable.

[Nagarjuna]
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Re: Sufi meditation

Postby desert_woodworker on Wed Aug 10, 2016 7:27 am

TD,

TigerDuck wrote:That kind of meditation belongs to samantha meditation, where it can calm you down.

Misspelling, there. Samantha is an acquaintance of mine, and a medical Doctor; but samatha (pronounced "SHAM-a-ta", as you know), is the meditation practice in which, ...well, people who wish to learn it on their own can look it up.

But of course it involves (or results in) stopping, ...and stopping, ...and stopping (calming). Yes, better that a teacher should teach it, in person.

--Joe
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Re: Sufi meditation

Postby macdougdoug on Wed Aug 10, 2016 8:18 am

Lunarious1987 wrote:
But I also want to meditate on a Zafu and think, for myself and not for Allah and peace. I want to think and reflect. Do you guys hold your breath too? How do you do it? I've asked before, but the response was bad. Not Generous.



Hello

We usually just observe the breath - this being about the effects of mindfulness and letting go/not reacting.

Of course we will fall out of mindfulness during meditation and get lost in thoughts and imagination - the practise is to come back to consciousness of the breath as often as possible.

As for ourselves, Allah and peace; these are all indivisible.
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Re: Sufi meditation

Postby Caodemarte on Wed Aug 10, 2016 3:50 pm

Thanks to Joe for the pronunciation tip! It is very helpful as I often mispronounce words in my native English language, let alone imports from foreign languages. (Maybe I am pronouncing correctly in my NE US accent and the rest of the world is wrong!) Any thoughts of creating a pronounciation list of common Buddhist terms in a sub-forum?

Back to the topic on hand: in my understanding Buddhist meditation goes "beyond" states of consciousness, such as calmness and peace, but calmness and inner peace can be a necessary step (of course, you can use Buddhist meditation just for its calming effects or any other moral purpose if you wish to or need to). Is this a correct understanding?
:Namaste:
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Re: Sufi meditation

Postby Lunarious1987 on Wed Aug 10, 2016 4:32 pm

This is not samatha (consentration). Only. It includes affirmation of Lordship of Allah. I underthrow myself Allah and submit when I do thins by my "free will". You dont know what it means to folllow a God. Nor the Hindus, they appearently cally AllAh GOD for god. They show no respect.
- Don't be thankful to be righteous. Be righteous to be thankful.
- Shia: "We are the friends/owners of proof, wherever it bends we bend."
- Imam Hussein was once asked: what is affluence? He said : Decreasing your wishes , and being satisfied with what is enough for you.”
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Re: Sufi meditation

Postby desert_woodworker on Wed Aug 10, 2016 4:58 pm

L.,

To show respect, Step One is: "Do not criticize others".

Does this mean I do not show respect to you? No. My information above is not a criticism. And, I know you say you respect scholars. So, there's a state of affairs for you.

--Joe
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Re: Sufi meditation

Postby desert_woodworker on Wed Aug 10, 2016 5:18 pm

C.,

Caodemarte wrote:Thanks to Joe for the pronunciation tip! It is very helpful as I often mispronounce words in my native English language, let alone imports from foreign languages. (Maybe I am pronouncing correctly in my NE US accent and the rest of the world is wrong!) Any thoughts of creating a pronounciation list of common Buddhist terms in a sub-forum

You're welcome!, for the pronunciation tip on samatha (SHAM-a-ta).

(Now, if I only knew how to pronounce "Caodemarte"!). :blush: BTW, I'm from NE US too, and never noticed an "accent" there! :lol2: :tee:

Now, in Chinese T'ien T'ai (Japanese Tendai) Buddhist practice, Samatha is paired with Vipassana, and the practice is called Samatha-Vipassana. So, the nature of the practice is something like "stopping/illumination", or "stopping/insight".

The diacritical marks in the transliterated words from the Sanskrit indicate, for example, how the letter "s" is to be pronounced. A better spelling of the practice is below, complete with the diacritical marks:

Śamatha-vipaśyanā

The acute-accent over the s in each word above instructs that the "s" is to be pronounced "sh". So, the name of the combined practice is pronounced: SHAM-a-ta Vip-A-sha-na.

To the best of my knowledge! ;)

--Joe
Last edited by desert_woodworker on Wed Aug 10, 2016 5:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Sufi meditation

Postby TigerDuck on Wed Aug 10, 2016 5:30 pm

Affirmation of Lordship of Allah or Jesus or whatever is too early.

At this moment, Allah, Jesus, or whatever is simply something you take it for granted, something you believe to be absolutely true.

Buddhist meditation does not go in that way. Generally, buddhist meditation is divided into:
1. Calm abiding meditation
2. Insight meditation

The meditation you are describing belongs to Calm abiding category. Initially you focus on 1 object, and by continuous engagement, your mind will calm, and eventually you will experience the calmness that you never experience before. Your mind will be very sharp and alert, and you will feel joyous.

In all traditions or religions, the meditation only stops until calm abiding level. You can gain physic powers, clairvoyance, etc. All these super power eventually delude you, that you think you have been reaching a super state that you know everything. You can fall into that tendency, because you have something that your surrounding don't have.

If you focus in Allah, you will think all those superpowers are gifts or blessing from him. If Jesus, then Jesus. If buddha, then buddha.

But, you shall understand here, even in your meditation, your focus is just a shit of dog, you will eventually also have those superpowers. So, actually, those things are not gifts or whatever. They are just the power of your own mind that is dormant, inaccessible up to now.

Calm abiding although it is useful, it lacks of insight. You remain dark. All those power delude you as if you are no longer in darkness, as if you have clarified many things. But the fact is you still remain in darkness, still not knowing the true nature of reality.

It is the second meditation - insight meditation - that eventually break through all what you believe to be true.

You do not prove there is Allah, because it is said in the Quran.
You also do not disprove there is no Allah, because other religions or other people say so.
But, you find it yourself from your insight meditation.

That is your own truth that is proven by you with your direct seeing of the nature of reality.
It is unshakable by anything.

In buddhism, it is said that once you have found the truth that you see directly, even buddha says your truth is wrong, you are unshakable. It is like you see someone kills someone else in front of your eyes. It is as clear as that, and this clarity make you unshakable even Allah or Jesus or whatever said what you see is wrong.

At this moment, your stand about Allah is simply based on your culture, your surroundings, what you receive from your childhood, your education, etc. It is from external that you buy the information to be true.

Do you want to be just like that? Or you want to find out the truth that is coming from yourself?
It is your choice.

Probably, you shall know this:
Buddha is not a buddhist, so there is ZERO benefit to be a buddhist. This tag of buddhist doesn't help you at all, and it is absolutely USELESS stuff.

Buddha said you are your own master. There is no one out there who can help you, except yourself.

Then what are you still looking for in buddhism?

Buddhism is actually for those truth seeker who are looking the truth within themselves, not buying from outside.

We are living in the game of concepts, and we are blind with the concepts to be the truth.

Can sufi meditation breakthrough the concept? Or simply make you deeper into another concept?

How can you know this meditation breakthrough concepts, and how can you know this meditation simply shifts you into another concept?

:O:

Through nonconceptuality, he is immovable.

[Nagarjuna]
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Re: Sufi meditation

Postby desert_woodworker on Wed Aug 10, 2016 5:36 pm

TD, very compassionate and wise post.

:Namaste:

--Joe
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Re: Sufi meditation

Postby fukasetsu on Thu Aug 11, 2016 12:39 am

Lunarious1987 wrote:Hello all. How are you?

I want to talk about Sufi meditation. My sufi friend gave me a breath control excersice. He said:

-On the floor sit cross legged on your prayer rug in direction of Mecca (sitting on the floor is an act of humbleness)
-Then with short thoughts and words of intention start the exercise; the intention is why you are doing what you are getting ready to do: the intention is to get breath control and clear the mind.
-Exhale as deep as you can
-As you inhale as slow as possible breathe in thru the nose, and say in your mind “In the name of Allah” spread these words out so when you start with the inhaling you start with the words and at the end of the words you end the inhaling
-Hold for around 3 seconds
-Exhale as slow as possible also thru the nose and say in your mind “By the Will of Allah” again spread these words out so when you start with the exhaling you start with the words and at the end of the words you end the exhaling.
-Repeat

But I also want to meditate on a Zafu and think, for myself and not for Allah and peace. I want to think and reflect. Do you guys hold your breath too? How do you do it? I've asked before, but the response was bad. Not Generous.

Peace


Might as well say "In the name of coca cola"or in the name of 786e9734jlkfdjljcl

Get it?

I do not hold breath, nor do I have name and form (in mind), no, Buddha no Allah, just aware of being aware simple as that.
Same applies off the cushion, throughout the day I'm aware of being aware, or appreciating a single breath, thats all not a thought about being human, being born, all the man made stories or fabrications about any religion or notion of self arise, just breathing Brother that is all. The consciousness in me, you, a mosquito, an elephant, a god, a cat is the same, just pay attention.
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Re: Sufi meditation

Postby Lunarious1987 on Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:25 am

desert_woodworker wrote:L.,

To show respect, Step One is: "Do not criticize others".

Does this mean I do not show respect to you? No. My information above is not a criticism. And, I know you say you respect scholars. So, there's a state of affairs for you.

--Joe

You're right. Humans deserve respect too, i am sorry. But Allah and Buddha not least too.
- Don't be thankful to be righteous. Be righteous to be thankful.
- Shia: "We are the friends/owners of proof, wherever it bends we bend."
- Imam Hussein was once asked: what is affluence? He said : Decreasing your wishes , and being satisfied with what is enough for you.”
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Re: Sufi meditation

Postby Lunarious1987 on Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:29 am

desert_woodworker wrote:TD, very compassionate and wise post.

:Namaste:

--Joe

I do not respect that. Scholars need to speak in a respectable manner to be honored above others. Truth comes before kindness.
- Don't be thankful to be righteous. Be righteous to be thankful.
- Shia: "We are the friends/owners of proof, wherever it bends we bend."
- Imam Hussein was once asked: what is affluence? He said : Decreasing your wishes , and being satisfied with what is enough for you.”
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Re: Sufi meditation

Postby Lunarious1987 on Thu Aug 11, 2016 9:31 am

fukasetsu wrote:
Lunarious1987 wrote:Hello all. How are you?

I want to talk about Sufi meditation. My sufi friend gave me a breath control excersice. He said:

-On the floor sit cross legged on your prayer rug in direction of Mecca (sitting on the floor is an act of humbleness)
-Then with short thoughts and words of intention start the exercise; the intention is why you are doing what you are getting ready to do: the intention is to get breath control and clear the mind.
-Exhale as deep as you can
-As you inhale as slow as possible breathe in thru the nose, and say in your mind “In the name of Allah” spread these words out so when you start with the inhaling you start with the words and at the end of the words you end the inhaling
-Hold for around 3 seconds
-Exhale as slow as possible also thru the nose and say in your mind “By the Will of Allah” again spread these words out so when you start with the exhaling you start with the words and at the end of the words you end the exhaling.
-Repeat

But I also want to meditate on a Zafu and think, for myself and not for Allah and peace. I want to think and reflect. Do you guys hold your breath too? How do you do it? I've asked before, but the response was bad. Not Generous.

Peace


Might as well say "In the name of coca cola"or in the name of 786e9734jlkfdjljcl

Get it?

I do not hold breath, nor do I have name and form (in mind), no, Buddha no Allah, just aware of being aware simple as that.
Same applies off the cushion, throughout the day I'm aware of being aware, or appreciating a single breath, thats all not a thought about being human, being born, all the man made stories or fabrications about any religion or notion of self arise, just breathing Brother that is all. The consciousness in me, you, a mosquito, an elephant, a god, a cat is the same, just pay attention.

Stop disrespecting! I know i do that in self defence but shouldn't.

Peace (means Islam, also submission in arabic)
- Don't be thankful to be righteous. Be righteous to be thankful.
- Shia: "We are the friends/owners of proof, wherever it bends we bend."
- Imam Hussein was once asked: what is affluence? He said : Decreasing your wishes , and being satisfied with what is enough for you.”
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Re: Sufi meditation

Postby desert_woodworker on Thu Aug 11, 2016 6:06 pm

L.,

Huh?

There's no disrespect in complimenting a writer who speaks truth and who cares for others. My compliment is in addition a "thank-you" (to T.D.), an appreciation of another's manifest wisdom and compassion.

It may be that you are not one who understands, and who is an ingrate. Only in light of those two (very... ) likely possibilities does your comment make sense. Your comment points back to and reveals ...yourself. For all to see ( ...ouch).

Fortunately, life is change. And since you are a very young man, clearly continuing to think and behave as an unreformed, huffy, adolescent, we can hope that there may yet be time and change ahead.

Let parents and respected elders be your guides.

--Joe

Lunarious1987 wrote:
desert_woodworker wrote:TD, very compassionate and wise post.

:Namaste:


I do not respect that. Scholars need to speak in a respectable manner to be honored above others. Truth comes before kindness.
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Re: Sufi meditation

Postby Lunarious1987 on Thu Aug 11, 2016 6:43 pm

Recently, my Sufi friend tol me do not be blinded by light. I think i understand that. Thank you Desert Woodworker.
- Don't be thankful to be righteous. Be righteous to be thankful.
- Shia: "We are the friends/owners of proof, wherever it bends we bend."
- Imam Hussein was once asked: what is affluence? He said : Decreasing your wishes , and being satisfied with what is enough for you.”
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Re: Sufi meditation

Postby desert_woodworker on Thu Aug 11, 2016 7:38 pm

L.,

Best to you and the Sufi friend.

In the Zen Buddhist tradition, it's said that "Gold-dust in the eyes does not assist vision".

Keep it real,

--Joe
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Re: Sufi meditation

Postby oryoki on Mon Aug 15, 2016 8:12 pm

This is from the book “Now is the Knowing” by Venerable Ajahn Sumedho (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sumedho) pages 6,7:

<<<Many forest bhikkhus in the North-East of Thailand use the word ‘Buddho’as their meditation object. They use it as a kind of koan . Firstly, they calm the mind by following the inhalations and exhalations using the syllables BUD -DHO, and then begin to contemplate, ‘ What is Buddho, the ‘ one who knows ’ ? ’ ‘ What is the knowing? ’ When I used to travel around the North -East of Thailand on tudong I liked to go and stay at the monastery of Ajahn Fun. Ajahn Fun was a much -loved and deeply respected monk, the teacher of the Royal Family, and he was so popular that he was constantly receiving guests. I would sit at his kuti [hut] and hear him give the most amazing kind of Dhamma talks, all on the subject of ‘ Buddho ’— as far as I could see, it was all that he taught. He could make it into a really profound meditation, whether for an illiterate farmer or an elegant, western -educated Thai aristocrat. The main part of his teaching was to not just mechanically repeat ‘ Buddho ’ , but to reflect and investigate, to awaken the mind to really look into the ‘ Buddho ’ , ‘ the one who knows ’ really investigate its beginning, its end, above and below, so that one’s whole attention was stuck onto it. When one did that, ‘ Buddho ’ became something that echoed through the mind. One would investigate it, look at it, examine it before it was said and after it was said, and eventually one would start listening to it and hear beyond the sound, until one heard the silence.>>>


Hi Lunarious1987,

The above description of the Buddhist meditation seem to combine features of the meditation as advised by your Sufi friend and your own desire to think while sitting in meditation position. By thinking, I of course do not mean some idle thinking, like what you are going to have for a supper, but more purposeful investigation of a problem. I would advise that you replace the mental word “Buddho” with “Allah” in the above description and then try it for a while. Since Buddhism teaches decisively that there is no self, then you can investigate, as suggested above, while sitting in the meditation position, who really repeats / is aware of / experiences / knows the mental word “Allah”???
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Re: Sufi meditation

Postby fukasetsu on Wed Aug 17, 2016 2:58 pm

desert_woodworker wrote:L.,

Best to you and the Sufi friend.

In the Zen Buddhist tradition, it's said that "Gold-dust in the eyes does not assist vision".

Keep it real,

--Joe


:Thumb:
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Re: Sufi meditation

Postby lobster on Fri Aug 26, 2016 3:58 am

Before we practice dervish meditation it is important to understand the Sufis believe Allah is an Aubergine:

It seems that the Master of Mirth and Chief of the Dervishes, Nasrudin, was once called to pontificate on the 'Nature of Allah' in the local mosque. Present were the many Imams and Doctors of the Islamic Law. Out of courtesy and because Nasrudin could not be counted on saying anything worthwhile, these illustrious guests explained and inspired the audience with their eloquence and wisdom.
Finally it was Nasrudin's turn to explain 'the Nature of Allah'.

"Allah ...", started Nasrudin impressively "is ..."

Nasrudin removed and held up an ovoid mauve vegetable from the folds of his turban, " ... an aubergine."

There was uproar at this blasphemy. When order was finally established, Nasrudin was reluctantly asked to explain his words.

"I conclude that everyone has spoken of what they do not know or have not seen. We can all see this aubergine. Is there anyone who can deny that Allah is manifest in all things?"

Nobody could.

"Very well," said Nasrudin, "Allah is an aubergine."


http://opcoa.st/0R62H

To understand Zen meditation, we need to be aware that Aubergines are delicious.
Allah Akbar.

The important aspect is to find if we are a vegetable or something more than a reaction to our conceptions.

That of course is what we choose ...
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