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Key Mahayana Scriptures with comments

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Re: Key Mahayana Scriptures with comments

Postby Guo Gu on Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:29 pm

you're on the balcony; how do you know the cat is just sitting?
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Re: Key Mahayana Scriptures with comments

Postby fukasetsu on Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:31 pm

Guo Gu wrote:you're on the balcony; how do you know the cat is just sitting?


When you asked the question the cat was sitting in the front room, it was the first thing I looked at when you asked me, since your question did not find ground in thought, I just responded at the first thing I saw.
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Re: Key Mahayana Scriptures with comments

Postby Guo Gu on Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:36 pm

not saying this is your case--it's not--but stating what when one see, as it is--that's mind coming into being, and the concept coming into being (what lankavatara is talking about).

i'm off to bed. :heya:
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Re: Key Mahayana Scriptures with comments

Postby fukasetsu on Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:39 pm

Thanks you very much for your time dear Sir.
I have a question about when obstructions come into being, but that will have to wait.
And I will post it in PM, furthermore I shall not let your time spend go to waste.

Good night Guo Gu.
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Re: Key Mahayana Scriptures with comments

Postby Guo Gu on Sun Jul 07, 2013 3:21 am

you can post it. i'll return tonight to see it.
:Namaste:
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Re: Key Mahayana Scriptures with comments

Postby Guo Gu on Sun Jul 07, 2013 4:15 pm

Anirukta wrote:
Guo Gu wrote: i'll return tonight to see it.

Leaving, returning, cats, balconies, mind, concepts..


anirukta, i'll play with you another time. give yourself 30 blows.

fukasetssu: generally speaking, if obstructions has already come into being--that is, you see obstruction, then bring forth your method.
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Re: Key Mahayana Scriptures with comments

Postby fukasetsu on Sun Jul 07, 2013 9:30 pm

Guo Gu wrote:you can post it. i'll return tonight to see it.
:Namaste:


Thanks you Guo Gu, it might take a few days before I do (it requires some kind of "inspiration")
then again such a tale involves the contents of mind, so perhaps it is not interesting/necessary for you.

Anirukta wrote:Leaving, returning, cats, balconies, mind, concepts..

Guo Gu wrote:anirukta, i'll play with you another time. give yourself 30 blows.

Can I do it please! Can I?

fukasetssu: generally speaking, if obstructions has already come into being--that is, you see obstruction, then bring forth your method.

old stuff:
temperory repression (for functional purposes)
chanting the Diamond Sutra (non verbal)
chanting the Anatta lakkhana Sutra (non verbal)
+ many others all by mind
"non-dual philosophy"
all in the midst of obstruction for the purpose of function.

last years

only "method" could be said to be non-dwelling.
mixed with memberence of "neti neti" [the no-thought kind] which is pretty much like non-dwelling
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Re: Key Mahayana Scriptures with comments

Postby Guo Gu on Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:01 pm

fukasetsu wrote:
last years

only "method" could be said to be non-dwelling.
mixed with memberence of "neti neti" [the no-thought kind] which is pretty much like non-dwelling


but this is only a concept. so when you remind yourself of this, does it actually work?
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Re: Key Mahayana Scriptures with comments

Postby Michaeljc on Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:04 am

Guo Gu wrote:
fukasetsu wrote:
last years

only "method" could be said to be non-dwelling.
mixed with memberence of "neti neti" [the no-thought kind] which is pretty much like non-dwelling


but this is only a concept. so when you remind yourself of this, does it actually work?


For me - no
These are results of practice, not methods. They can be considered methods and may work for others. I really don't know about others.

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Re: Key Mahayana Scriptures with comments

Postby fukasetsu on Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:48 am

Guo Gu wrote:
fukasetsu wrote:
last years

only "method" could be said to be non-dwelling.
mixed with memberence of "neti neti" [the no-thought kind] which is pretty much like non-dwelling


but this is only a concept. so when you remind yourself of this, does it actually work?


It's only a concept when it appears in language, you're saying my Sadhana is made of merely concepts?
It has changed "my life" drastically, so yes one could say that it works.
It's becoming more natural and spontaneous and doesn't require memory, however there's still no "key insight"
into the nature of the beast so to speak, which is ok. I'm in no rush to fix anything,
I can trace how a thing comes to be but that's not the thing itself, so I'm patiently abiding without anticipation.
Nevertheless when talking with one specific teacher in the past and his introduction to all this, has saved me aeons of false fabrications and what not, point is when there's an error I add, take it away, if I forget something, notify me. If it wouldn't bear fruit why would I practise "it" for over 5 years now :PP:
It's like this... non-dwelling (including no thought/notion arising about obstructions and non-obstructions) ->check, no more designating the extremes ->check... but in every condition and circumstance all of the time?
No, hence something is still missing (some clear view or whatever)
I have no interest for knowledge through mental manipulation, nor have any interest to linger in the realm of the intellect, everything is a projection of this chemical consciousness, so much is clear.
What I came to understand a few years ago is that everything I had been carrying around as some kind of knowledge and wisdom was bunk and needed to be discarded, or rather, it just sort of evaporated, resulting in more of a mirror-like view, without the habitual tendency to add interpretation based on previous knowledge, still the beyond cannot get a hold when obstruction(s) linger, I need to dig deeper and deeper.
I could sit in samadhi for 10.000 years but that's no good, for work needs to be done, the afflictions buried the deepest must be uprooted, faced and seen through. It's not a matter of just "non-dwelling" though it's a prerequisite otherwise one is entangled right into the contents of mind.
I just need to fail completely which is the cumulative recognition that "I" can't do it. Alert and persistent inspection will reveal the utter nothingness of the self-image, as well as the futility of its efforts to endure and triumph. The one that would awaken is the one that disappears.(thus I have heared)

In the Bhagavad Gita, Krishna tells Arjuna that only a few out of a million will make the effort, and out of a million that do make the effort, only a few will succeed. The reason that the few do succeed is because they attend 24/7 to the Inquiry and don't allow fleeting fabricated mind states to confuse them with the aroma of a separate and enduring self. An eminent teacher sat in his attic for 3 years, then he realized. His method is to do nothing, to stop adding stories (like "me" and "mine") to perception, to stay with the sense of beingness in full attention, until the distracting impediments drop away to some extent, and reality begins to awaken to itself in the form and function of fukasetsu. With realization, true spontaneity occurs, and I no longer need to ask if the water is warm or cool. Then too the body/mind organism begins to make sense. Until then, it's at war with itself and can't settle. Thingy is that after a few years of digging one starts to crawl back to the surface again, is it a problem? I have no interest in the battle anymore, I merely observe it like something alienated or a movie, but does that "solve" the core obstruction, well no, does it work, yes.
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Re: Key Mahayana Scriptures with comments

Postby fukasetsu on Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:52 am

Michaeljc wrote:These are results of practice, not methods.


Doesn't a woodworker (even in the desert) have a method of wood carving?
After a few years of methoding, his skills improve, which affect his method again.
Practise, method.... just words to point out the same for me.
I do not believe in cultivation, nor having a so called history of wood working.
But that's how it appears in language, words and interpretations.
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Re: Key Mahayana Scriptures with comments

Postby Guo Gu on Tue Jul 09, 2013 8:35 am

fukasetsu, thanks for sharing with me your practice.
of course i'm not saying that your whole practice is conceptual. i know from our interaction the other day/night that you're special... that was a moment of aliment of causes and conditions. i just asked about whether it is concept or not because you wanted to ask what to do when obstructions arise. then you said non-abiding mixed with memberence of neti neti. to me, if that works then that means either the obstruction isn't that much of an obstruction (superficial afflictions) or you may be talking about something else. now i know you're talking about the latter.
your right, that when illumination is present afflictions evaporate. as for the deep rooted ones, i guess this is the kind of obstructions you were referring to in the original post, it's not possible to deal with them straight on. mind cannot perceive mind--there's nothing to see. don't dig. if you dig deeper, it becomes like a battle, as you say. the digger is the obstruction that he perceives.
if one cannot simply relinquish delusion all at once, then one has to use illusion to transform illusion--that is, use a method such as huatou or gong'an (irresolvable, impenetrable question) to shatter the discriminating mind to (for lack of better word) personally realize self-nature again, and again, and again until the deep rooted afflictions don't manifest anymore.
you're so close. but causes and conditions has not ripened for you to meet someone (in person) who can help you.
may you be well, and may the conditions ripen.
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Re: Key Mahayana Scriptures with comments

Postby Carol on Tue Jul 09, 2013 3:49 pm

:offninja:

Moderator's Note: Please return to the topic: Key Mahayana Scriptures with comments.

Thanks.
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Re: Key Mahayana Scriptures with comments

Postby Guo Gu on Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:27 pm

now, how about that old man vimalakirti and his silence? or lankavatara's five dharmas, three natures, two kinds of selflessness, and eight layers of consciousness (which are the central contributions of this sutra)? ;)
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Re: Key Mahayana Scriptures with comments

Postby fukasetsu on Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:16 am

Guo Gu wrote:you're so close. but causes and conditions has not ripened for you to meet someone (in person) who can help you.
may you be well, and may the conditions ripen.
guo gu


:lol2:

I actually met someone a few years ago who told me the same
said I was doing fine and that I knew what to do, earnestness and perseverance being the key.
Anyways thank you for your time and kindness Sir.
Especially this part
it's not possible to deal with them straight on. mind cannot perceive mind--there's nothing to see. don't dig. if you dig deeper, it becomes like a battle, as you say. the digger is the obstruction that he perceives.

It's of utter importance, but one can go "astray" or "forgetfull" for relatively short periods of time. :)

Carol wrote: :offninja:

Moderator's Note: Please return to the topic: Key Mahayana Scriptures with comments.

Thanks.


Perhaps you can micromanage the off topic ones in the play section,
they seem more at home there.

Guo Gu wrote:now, how about that old man vimalakirti and his silence? or lankavatara's five dharmas, three natures, two kinds of selflessness, and eight layers of consciousness (which are the central contributions of this sutra)? ;)


Perhaps start with just one of them?
Anyways, since you don't seem to solely appear in the ask the teachers section only,
can we perhaps have a new subforum for all this?
Like discuss a scripture with Guo Gu or something?
or perhaps split topics for each sutra in the library section if that still exists?
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Re: Key Mahayana Scriptures with comments

Postby fukasetsu on Wed Jul 10, 2013 6:34 am

oh btw... I completely forgot at first to say that besides the two scriptures I mentioned this one has also been one of my favs "to work" with the last years.
Self Liberation through Seeing with Naked Awareness -By Padmasambhava


What do you think about this piece Guo Gu?
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Re: Key Mahayana Scriptures with comments

Postby Guo Gu on Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:45 pm

fukasetsu wrote:
I actually met someone a few years ago who told me the same
said I was doing fine and that I knew what to do, earnestness and perseverance being the key.


not exactly, sure you should practice hard but causes and conditions are the key. having a teacher shows you your hidden attachments/obstructions that you're unaware of. at least do retreats with a teacher once in a while--kinda like checking in once in a while, is good. also, interacting with different practitioners and helping ppl, cultivating merit (in this case, it just means establishing karmic affinities with sentient beings by offering yourself to help others), will help you.

"be off by a hair, one is as far as heaven and earth"! use your body like a rag, allow your mind to be like a mirror. remember this. the first part means offering yourself to all beings and do things for them without regret or complain. the second part means in all situation: nonabiding, yet mind arising (clear of what your doing/thinking, and help everyone you meet without discrimination).

fukasetsu wrote: Anyways thank you for your time and kindness Sir.
Especially this part
it's not possible to deal with them straight on. mind cannot perceive mind--there's nothing to see. don't dig. if you dig deeper, it becomes like a battle, as you say. the digger is the obstruction that he perceives.

It's of utter importance, but one can go "astray" or "forgetfull" for relatively short periods of time. :)


that's why interacting with a teacher is important.

fukasetsu wrote: Anyways, since you don't seem to solely appear in the ask the teachers section only,
can we perhaps have a new subforum for all this?
Like discuss a scripture with Guo Gu or something?
or perhaps split topics for each sutra in the library section if that still exists?


well, it is a zen forum--not a scripture study online group. my intention with this thread is to encourage ppl to fully avail themselves to scriptures and establish a foundation before "letting go of words and letters." as i see it, many of the questions people have on this forum comes from not knowing the scriptures--questions about practice, or holding skewed views, or using zazen to affirm one's one opinions, etc, which would not be the case with chan/son/zen masters of the past. they fully availed themselves with scriptures before and after deep enlightenment experiences. i've already given many reasons to study scriptures (at least in the beginning of one's practice) until correct view is internalized and even after seeing the self-nature, for the sake of helping all beings, acquire the wisdom of the scriptures to help others.

i don't suggest starting a new subforum, but anyone can start a new thread. i or any teacher can jump in when necessary.

be well,
guo gu
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Re: Key Mahayana Scriptures with comments

Postby Guo Gu on Wed Jul 10, 2013 1:47 pm

fukasetsu wrote:oh btw... I completely forgot at first to say that besides the two scriptures I mentioned this one has also been one of my favs "to work" with the last years.
Self Liberation through Seeing with Naked Awareness -By Padmasambhava


What do you think about this piece Guo Gu?


i have not read it... i think. the font is so small... my eyes hurt. :lol2:

i don't really read tibetan stuff. i should. thanks for sharing. i'll take a look later.
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Re: Key Mahayana Scriptures with comments

Postby fukasetsu on Wed Jul 10, 2013 2:17 pm

Guo Gu wrote:
i have not read it... i think. the font is so small... my eyes hurt. :lol2:

i don't really read tibetan stuff. i should. thanks for sharing. i'll take a look later.


Thanks for your reply before this Guo Gu, I have much to tell but the mod(s) would poke me about of topicism so I'll leave it be.

The font size for me is exactly the same size as here on ZFI, you could use the zoom function I guess.
Anyways I don't read much Tibetian stuff also, but throughout the years on internet you come about a lot and sometimes Dharma Brothers/Sisters forward stuff, this being one of them so sometimes it sticks with you.
I should be a good heretic and show you my favourite Non-Buddhism stuff :lol2: (oke I won't)
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Re: Key Mahayana Scriptures with comments

Postby ed blanco on Thu Jul 11, 2013 6:42 pm

fukasetsu wrote:
Guo Gu wrote:
fukasetsu wrote:
last years

only "method" could be said to be non-dwelling.
mixed with memberence of "neti neti" [the no-thought kind] which is pretty much like non-dwelling


but this is only a concept. so when you remind yourself of this, does it actually work?


It's only a concept when it appears in language, you're saying my Sadhana is made of merely concepts?
It has changed "my life" drastically, so yes one could say that it works.
It's becoming more natural and spontaneous and doesn't require memory, however there's still no "key insight"
into the nature of the beast so to speak, which is ok. I'm in no rush to fix anything,
I can trace how a thing comes to be but that's not the thing itself, so I'm patiently abiding without anticipation.
Nevertheless when talking with one specific teacher in the past and his introduction to all this, has saved me aeons of false fabrications and what not, point is when there's an error I add, take it away, if I forget something, notify me. If it wouldn't bear fruit why would I practise "it" for over 5 years now :PP:
It's like this... non-dwelling (including no thought/notion arising about obstructions and non-obstructions) ->check, no more designating the extremes ->check... but in every condition and circumstance all of the time?
No, hence something is still missing (some clear view or whatever)
I have no interest for knowledge through mental manipulation, nor have any interest to linger in the realm of the intellect, everything is a projection of this chemical consciousness, so much is clear.
What I came to understand a few years ago is that everything I had been carrying around as some kind of knowledge and wisdom was bunk and needed to be discarded, or rather, it just sort of evaporated, resulting in more of a mirror-like view, without the habitual tendency to add interpretation based on previous knowledge, still the beyond cannot get a hold when obstruction(s) linger, I need to dig deeper and deeper.
I could sit in samadhi for 10.000 years but that's no good, for work needs to be done, the afflictions buried the deepest must be uprooted, faced and seen through. It's not a matter of just "non-dwelling" though it's a prerequisite otherwise one is entangled right into the contents of mind.
I just need to fail completely which is the cumulative recognition that "I" can't do it. Alert and persistent inspection will reveal the utter nothingness of the self-image, as well as the futility of its efforts to endure and triumph. The one that would awaken is the one that disappears.(thus I have heared)

In the Bhagavad Gita, Krishna tells Arjuna that only a few out of a million will make the effort, and out of a million that do make the effort, only a few will succeed. The reason that the few do succeed is because they attend 24/7 to the Inquiry and don't allow fleeting fabricated mind states to confuse them with the aroma of a separate and enduring self. An eminent teacher sat in his attic for 3 years, then he realized. His method is to do nothing, to stop adding stories (like "me" and "mine") to perception, to stay with the sense of beingness in full attention, until the distracting impediments drop away to some extent, and reality begins to awaken to itself in the form and function of fukasetsu. With realization, true spontaneity occurs, and I no longer need to ask if the water is warm or cool. Then too the body/mind organism begins to make sense. Until then, it's at war with itself and can't settle. Thingy is that after a few years of digging one starts to crawl back to the surface again, is it a problem? I have no interest in the battle anymore, I merely observe it like something alienated or a movie, but does that "solve" the core obstruction, well no, does it work, yes.


Gee Fukster, where have you gone?

:rbow:
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IN SPEECH YOU HEAR ITS SILENCE

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