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Key Mahayana Scriptures with comments

With a focus on the non-Zen Mahayana schools flowing from China, Japan, Korea, etc.

Re: Key Mahayana Scriptures with comments

Postby Pedestrian on Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:06 pm

Speaking of silences, every time I read that exchange between Shariputra and the Goddess in the Vimalakirti Sutra I find something else marvelous.
"Buddha, to liberate beings, cultivates practices everywhere." Avatamsaka Sutra.

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Re: Key Mahayana Scriptures with comments

Postby Michaeljc on Thu Jul 04, 2013 9:41 am

Michaeljc wrote:Oh Gawd – homework :lol2:

OK, I undertake to study the Treatise On Entering The Tao of Sudden Enlightenment and report back.

It will take several days. My return, that is :lol2:

m


well - I cant say I studied it. I skimmed it. Its more of the same really, leaving one with nothing of value to say in response. I am interested in how these works explain the phenomenon of nuts and bolts of life and how this is acknowledged as important and legitimate along with the fancy stuff. This work touches on this. Last night I listened to a teacher explaining this as '3' something's (I cant remember the terminology) referred to by Buddha. In a nutshell 3 levels of wisdom ranging from the absolute to deciding what best to buy in the supermarket, sort of thing. This work deals with this. I therefore consider it to be somehow more legitimate than others that address only ideals without acknowledging that we also need to function as human beings on Earth.

The emphasis of the work does focus on the ultimate gaol as a Zen practitioner. It does not spend much time on how to do this, mentioning meditation only occasionally. What shows through is that we cannot be aware of this ultimate state, suggesting that faith is required. This is bit like particle physics where once a particle gets below a certain dimension observing it changes it. Therefore we can only know of a particle's existence by the way it influences things around it.

I don't know of a better way to explain my interpretation of this work. I am sure there is much much more half hidden behind the words, but for now this is my best shot.

m
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Re: Key Mahayana Scriptures with comments

Postby Chrisd on Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:22 am

I'm so busy am afraid I won't get to read it for a while.
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Re: Key Mahayana Scriptures with comments

Postby clyde on Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:17 pm

Regarding the Vimalakirti Sutra, I've read several translations and commentaries, and read and listened to several Dharma talks about the text. They've all been helpful and I have no favorite to recommend, but Robert Thurman’s series of talks (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1bmhhIa ... 75A03C12D3) are worthwhile. While there are profound teachings in the sutra, what remains for me is the example of Vimalakirti as the noble lay practitioner. I don't "hope" to be a Buddha, or a Bodhisattva, or a monk, or a teacher; but I can hope to become a noble lay practitioner, like the businessman Vimalakirti.

Also, I'd like to add the Ox Herding pictures as a text I've returned to again and again. There are many fine presentations and commentaries. I strongly recommend the commentary by Zenkei Shibayama in A Flower Does Not Talk (http://www.amazon.com/Flower-Does-Talk- ... 804808848/). He explains each of the elements of the pictures and uses a six picture version. His commentary is accessible to a beginner, but has depth for multiple returns . . . at least that's been my experience. And the other Dharma teachings and essays in this book are worth reading and re-reading. A different approach to the Ox Herding pictures is that of Shinzen Young. His Dharma talk is found here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8aN9O73lgg.

Along the same lines, I would add Tozan’s “Five Ranks” as an important Zen text worthy of repeated study.
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Re: Key Mahayana Scriptures with comments

Postby fukasetsu on Fri Jul 05, 2013 7:56 pm

Michaeljc wrote:
well - I cant say I studied it. I skimmed it. Its more of the same really, leaving one with nothing of value to say in response. I am interested in how these works explain the phenomenon of nuts and bolts of life and how this is acknowledged as important and legitimate along with the fancy stuff. This work touches on this.


I've been "studying it" for about 6 years I think,
when I read any text I never interpretate it with the intellect, meaning keeping the intellect free from perception.
I often notice that students read something, and then a week later they're reading something else.
When I then talk about the scripture they're like "yeah yeah I've already read that, I'm on this new thing now"
I usually don't respond then for there's little use communicating with anyone who goes through text that fast.
Reading a lot is fine I think and not every text is one's cup of tea, but from all the things I've read,
there are rarely any books which struck a cord, those one or two I will read for life, or just check back twice a year and read the whole thingy again to see if there are some "verifications" which were "missed" before.
Even in the beginning of the text:
A: The Lankavatara Sutra says: "When the mind comes into being, then various conceptions (dharmas) come to be; and when the mind ceases to be, then these various conceptions cease to be."

I almost never met anyone (except for some teachers) who truly understood what these seemingly no rocket science lines mean... people read over things so fast, or think to understand, mind comes into being, mind ceases to be.... it cannot be understood with the use of mind.
Which is also a simple statement no one seems to phantom.
"Mind cannot be used to search for something from Mind" ~Huang Po.
so simple, but rarely does anyone "get it"
Why... because hardly ever do people ignore the reference and see to whom it refers.
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Re: Key Mahayana Scriptures with comments

Postby Guo Gu on Sat Jul 06, 2013 10:52 am

fukasetsu wrote:
A: The Lankavatara Sutra says: "When the mind comes into being, then various conceptions (dharmas) come to be; and when the mind ceases to be, then these various conceptions cease to be."

I almost never met anyone (except for some teachers) who truly understood what these seemingly no rocket science lines mean... people read over things so fast, or think to understand, mind comes into being, mind ceases to be.... it cannot be understood with the use of mind.
Which is also a simple statement no one seems to phantom.
"Mind cannot be used to search for something from Mind" ~Huang Po.
so simple, but rarely does anyone "get it"
Why... because hardly ever do people ignore the reference and see to whom it refers.


fukasetsu, these are only have of the story. would you like to know the other half? ;)
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Re: Key Mahayana Scriptures with comments

Postby fukasetsu on Sat Jul 06, 2013 4:14 pm

Guo Gu wrote:fukasetsu, these are only have of the story. would you like to know the other half? ;)


Hit me. :)
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Re: Key Mahayana Scriptures with comments

Postby Guo Gu on Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:12 pm

when coming to be and ceasing to be ceases, reflections of the moon flow along in countless mountain streams. nothing obstructs....



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Re: Key Mahayana Scriptures with comments

Postby fukasetsu on Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:38 pm

Guo Gu wrote:when coming to be and ceasing to be ceases, reflections of the moon flow along in countless mountain streams. nothing obstructs....



burping and farting freely.


It is clear.... it contains all, nothing contains it.
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Re: Key Mahayana Scriptures with comments

Postby Guo Gu on Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:51 pm

no. it's not a matter of principle and phenomena... or its interfusion. that's theory! it's all function here. :heya:
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Re: Key Mahayana Scriptures with comments

Postby fukasetsu on Sat Jul 06, 2013 5:54 pm

Guo Gu wrote:that's theory! it's all function here. :heya:


When the swans leave the lake the water no longer holds its reflection, is that not an expression of function?
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Re: Key Mahayana Scriptures with comments

Postby Guo Gu on Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:01 pm

no, not true function. that's why it's not about containment; nor is it about leaving and coming. just chuck that out the window!

in practice, flowers may blossom but the spring still remains. this is function.
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Re: Key Mahayana Scriptures with comments

Postby fukasetsu on Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:05 pm

Guo Gu wrote:no, not true function. that's why it's not about containment; nor is it about leaving and coming. just chuck that out the window!

Immediately, consider it done!

in practice, flowers may blossom but the spring still remains. this is function.

Thanks you kindly Brother, I shall report back one day for verification.
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Re: Key Mahayana Scriptures with comments

Postby Guo Gu on Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:05 pm

you're still one the first half of teaching: "When the mind comes into being, then various conceptions (dharmas) come to be; and when the mind ceases to be, then these various conceptions cease to be."
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Re: Key Mahayana Scriptures with comments

Postby Guo Gu on Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:08 pm

fukasetsu wrote:I shall report back one day for verification.


now! :ninja: right where you are. don't type something; don't not type something. type and respond.
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Re: Key Mahayana Scriptures with comments

Postby Guo Gu on Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:16 pm

come on now, this is at the level of the first half of the teaching only, the one you've studied for 6 years now. ;) i'm waiting.
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Re: Key Mahayana Scriptures with comments

Postby fukasetsu on Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:16 pm

Guo Gu wrote:
fukasetsu wrote:I shall report back one day for verification.


now! :ninja: right where you are. don't type something; don't not type something. type and respond.


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Re: Key Mahayana Scriptures with comments

Postby fukasetsu on Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:17 pm

Guo Gu wrote:come on now, this is at the level of the first half of the teaching only, the one you've studied for 6 years now. ;) i'm waiting.


I just logged in 5 secs ago :lol2:
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Re: Key Mahayana Scriptures with comments

Postby Guo Gu on Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:20 pm

fukasetsu wrote:
Guo Gu wrote:
fukasetsu wrote:I shall report back one day for verification.


now! :ninja: right where you are. don't type something; don't not type something. type and respond.


The cat in the front room


what's it doing in the front?

fukasetsu wrote:I just logged in 5 secs ago :lol2:


logged on? where where you before that?
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Re: Key Mahayana Scriptures with comments

Postby fukasetsu on Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:22 pm

Guo Gu wrote:
what's it doing in the front?

Just sitting.

fukasetsu wrote:logged on? where where you before that?


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