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Dalai Lama Statement on his Reincarnation

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Re: Dalai Lama Statement on his Reincarnation

Postby sunyavadi on Thu Sep 27, 2012 11:38 pm

Practice of the teaching is always beneficial in this present life and one is able to benefit oneself and others from it regardless of beliefs concerning future lives. However it is also not surprising that the Dalai Lama upholds the dogmatic and metaphysical principles associated with Buddhism. It goes with the office.
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Re: Dalai Lama Statement on his Reincarnation

Postby Pemako on Sat Sep 29, 2012 12:45 am

Carol wrote:
flaneur wrote:My teacher, on the other hand, said it was not necessary to believe anything, but it is necessary to practice with an open and inquiring mind.


You are lucky to have had such a good teacher.
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Re: Dalai Lama Statement on his Reincarnation

Postby Jok_Hae on Sat Sep 29, 2012 12:48 am

Pemako wrote:
Carol wrote:
flaneur wrote:My teacher, on the other hand, said it was not necessary to believe anything, but it is necessary to practice with an open and inquiring mind.


You are lucky to have had such a good teacher.


My personal opinion is that there are many such teachers in this world. Unfortunately, the bad apples get all the press.
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Re: Dalai Lama Statement on his Reincarnation

Postby partofit22 on Sat Sep 29, 2012 1:46 am

Jok_Hae wrote:
Pemako wrote:
Carol wrote:
flaneur wrote:My teacher, on the other hand, said it was not necessary to believe anything, but it is necessary to practice with an open and inquiring mind.


You are lucky to have had such a good teacher.


My personal opinion is that there are many such teachers in this world. Unfortunately, the bad apples get all the press.


not ALL- :)
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Re: Dalai Lama Statement on his Reincarnation

Postby Possum on Mon Oct 01, 2012 12:21 am

Gregory Wonderwheel wrote:Here areTenzin Gyatso's own words.

Tenzin Gyatso wrote:For those who remember their past lives, rebirth is a clear experience. However, most ordinary beings forget their past lives as they go through the process of death, intermediate state and rebirth. As past and future rebirths are slightly obscure to them, we need to use evidence-based logic to prove past and future rebirths to them.

There are many different logical arguments given in the words of the Buddha and subsequent commentaries to prove the existence of past and future lives. In brief, they come down to four points: the logic that things are preceded by things of a similar type, the logic that things are preceded by a substantial cause, the logic that the mind has gained familiarity with things in the past, and the logic of having gained experience of things in the past.

Ultimately all these arguments are based on the idea that the nature of the mind, its clarity and awareness, must have clarity and awareness as its substantial cause. It cannot have any other entity such as an inanimate object as its substantial cause. This is self-evident. Through logical analysis we infer that a new stream of clarity and awareness cannot come about without causes or from unrelated causes. While we observe that mind cannot be produced in a laboratory, we also infer that nothing can eliminate the continuity of subtle clarity and awareness.

As far as I know, no modern psychologist, physicist, or neuroscientist has been able to observe or predict the production of mind either from matter or without cause.

There are people who can remember their immediate past life or even many past lives, as well as being able to recognise places and relatives from those lives. This is not just something that happened in the past. Even today there are many people in the East and West, who can recall incidents and experiences from their past lives. Denying this is not an honest and impartial way of doing research, because it runs counter to this evidence.


The scientific inquiry should begin from this kind of standpoint, rather than from the usual materialist and reductionist that doesn't even accept the basic fact or concept of the mind but sees "mind" as epiphenomenon of the brain. For example, Thomas Huxley, in the 19th century, remarked that mind is to brain as the whistle is to the steam train – a mere epiphenomenon, and this perspective has continued as context for modern establishment science with alternative views of consciousness having to argue against this point of view.

There are no such metaphysical assertions in scientific journals. Even parapsychology studies report that they are unable to explain their findings, without stating that they prove some supernatural reality. Wherever you got that quotation from Huxley, it wasn't from a study. A scientist may express an opinion on this subject, but it's "ex-cathedra." Huxley was not speaking in his capacity as a scientist. He was just another amateur philosopher shooting the breeze.

Neurologists talk about the brain. Psychologists talk about mind.

The website of the Jean Piaget Society, which honors the psychologist known for his work on the development of children's cognitive skills, uses the word mind. It does not use the word brain.

http://www.piaget.org/aboutPiaget.html

Whereas the scientific community is virtually silent about parapsychology, opinion polls suggest widespread interest.
"We found large differences between the effect sizes reported for complete MBSR programs vs. “pure” meditation."
- "The Effects of Mindfulness Meditation: A Meta-Analysis" by Eberth and Sedlmeier
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OT: Brain and mind

Postby unsui on Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:35 am

Possum wrote:
Gregory Wonderwheel wrote:Here areTenzin Gyatso's own words.

Tenzin Gyatso wrote:For those who remember their past lives, rebirth is a clear experience. However, most ordinary beings forget their past lives as they go through the process of death, intermediate state and rebirth. As past and future rebirths are slightly obscure to them, we need to use evidence-based logic to prove past and future rebirths to them.

There are many different logical arguments given in the words of the Buddha and subsequent commentaries to prove the existence of past and future lives. In brief, they come down to four points: the logic that things are preceded by things of a similar type, the logic that things are preceded by a substantial cause, the logic that the mind has gained familiarity with things in the past, and the logic of having gained experience of things in the past.

Ultimately all these arguments are based on the idea that the nature of the mind, its clarity and awareness, must have clarity and awareness as its substantial cause. It cannot have any other entity such as an inanimate object as its substantial cause. This is self-evident. Through logical analysis we infer that a new stream of clarity and awareness cannot come about without causes or from unrelated causes. While we observe that mind cannot be produced in a laboratory, we also infer that nothing can eliminate the continuity of subtle clarity and awareness.

As far as I know, no modern psychologist, physicist, or neuroscientist has been able to observe or predict the production of mind either from matter or without cause.

There are people who can remember their immediate past life or even many past lives, as well as being able to recognise places and relatives from those lives. This is not just something that happened in the past. Even today there are many people in the East and West, who can recall incidents and experiences from their past lives. Denying this is not an honest and impartial way of doing research, because it runs counter to this evidence.


The scientific inquiry should begin from this kind of standpoint, rather than from the usual materialist and reductionist that doesn't even accept the basic fact or concept of the mind but sees "mind" as epiphenomenon of the brain. For example, Thomas Huxley, in the 19th century, remarked that mind is to brain as the whistle is to the steam train – a mere epiphenomenon, and this perspective has continued as context for modern establishment science with alternative views of consciousness having to argue against this point of view.

There are no such metaphysical assertions in scientific journals. Even parapsychology studies report that they are unable to explain their findings, without stating that they prove some supernatural reality. Wherever you got that quotation from Huxley, it wasn't from a study. A scientist may express an opinion on this subject, but it's "ex-cathedra." Huxley was not speaking in his capacity as a scientist. He was just another amateur philosopher shooting the breeze.

Neurologists talk about the brain. Psychologists talk about mind.

The website of the Jean Piaget Society, which honors the psychologist known for his work on the development of children's cognitive skills, uses the word mind. It does not use the word brain.

http://www.piaget.org/aboutPiaget.html

Whereas the scientific community is virtually silent about parapsychology, opinion polls suggest widespread interest.

I have just seen a film from 2006 that has som interesting perspectives about mind and brain: What the Bleep Do We Know? It may be science, it may be pseudoscience, it may just be fun, but I found it a good way to spend an evening and it got me thinking about all sorts of puzzles.

Also, maybe you've seen this letter, sent to a grieving family from Einstein:
308166_10151425177653502_640250554_n.jpg


Anyway, back to the topic!
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May we extend This Mind over the whole universe so that we and all beings together may attain maturity in Buddha's wisdom
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Re: Dalai Lama Statement on his Reincarnation

Postby fukasetsu on Mon Oct 01, 2012 10:02 am

Jok_Hae wrote:My personal opinion is that there are many such teachers in this world. Unfortunately, the bad apples get all the press.


Shitloads of them I'd say.
And most of them are not official teachers in any particular religion.
At least they're not part of the dope show.
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Re: Dalai Lama Statement on his Reincarnation

Postby sunyavadi on Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:01 am

I love that Einstein quote, and posted it yesterday on another forum. It is interesting to see it reproduced in the original format.

What the Bleep was nearly good. I mean it had some good things in it, I liked fred Alan Wolfe and a few of the others, but there was an awful lot of navel gazing. I wish someone with some street cred would pick this idea up and run with it.
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Re: Dalai Lama Statement on his Reincarnation

Postby Chrisd on Mon Oct 01, 2012 11:42 am

Very nice quote thanks for sharing.
I look it up on the inet and its mostly in another form:
“A human being is part of a whole, called by us the ‘Universe’ —a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts, and feelings, as something separated from the rest—a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circles of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty.

Sounds loverly :daisy: but not really something a scientist such as Einstein would say.

I also have what the bleep here. Long time ago since I've seen it. Might have another look at it, have some fun.
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Re: Dalai Lama Statement on his Reincarnation

Postby Possum on Mon Oct 01, 2012 5:13 pm

The Einstein letter is another example of opinion outside scientific research, like Huxley's.

The same for What The Bleep Do We Know? Journals don't have articles that say quantum mechanics shows that we have free will, like that guy in the movie.

A 2001 article in The Lancet -- one of the world's most influential medical journals -- presented findings from a large-scale hospital study of near-death experiences, and the authors said that they could not explain the findings. That's science, not opinion or pseudoscience.
"We found large differences between the effect sizes reported for complete MBSR programs vs. “pure” meditation."
- "The Effects of Mindfulness Meditation: A Meta-Analysis" by Eberth and Sedlmeier
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Re: Dalai Lama Statement on his Reincarnation

Postby sunyavadi on Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:59 am

I agree with the above, but the problem is that we don't have an explanatory framework for such things as re-birth. The idea was forbidden by the Church in the 4th Century, and it is obviously impossible to account for within the framework of scientific materialism also. So a lot of people literally don't know what to think about it, or how to make sense of it. There is no kind of natural analogy for the idea in Western culture. Accordingly the natural reaction is to deny there could be such a thing, which is exactly what most people do.

One of the books I read this year was Rupert Sheldrake's The Science Delusion. Rupert is a scientist, but not a materialist, and has done research in non-mainstream areas of science, including his theory of Morphic Resonance, as well as a lot of research into telepathic communications. Naturally, the scientific establishment thinks is a complete nutcase, but I find him a model of clarity (and courtesy).

Speaking for myself, I don't find the idea of re-birth threatening or strange. I think I have always been open to the possibility. But I would never try and press the idea on somebody else. I do understand it is an idea a lot of people find hard to deal with. Sheldrake's theories do provide a kind of explanatory mechanism for the continuity of memory, because he believes that 'nature has memory'.
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Re: Dalai Lama Statement on his Reincarnation

Postby Possum on Tue Oct 02, 2012 4:42 am

sunyavadi wrote:One of the books I read this year was Rupert Sheldrake's The Science Delusion. Rupert is a scientist, but not a materialist, and has done research in non-mainstream areas of science, including his theory of Morphic Resonance, as well as a lot of research into telepathic communications. Naturally, the scientific establishment thinks is a complete nutcase, but I find him a model of clarity (and courtesy).

If you look at polls that show what scientists think, you may conclude that there's a big difference between what they think and what they say, or don't say.

Sheldrake got into trouble when he publicly criticized the idea that living things evolve by natural selection alone. Whether or not he made a strong case, I can't say. All I know is that it ended his university career. That's not to say that all the world's scientists denounced him. He was ridiculed in academia, but polls show that there is considerable tacit approval for a theistic view of natural history among scientists.

This Gallup poll reports 45% of scientists saying that they believe a higher power has, in some way, been involved in creating life.

http://ncse.com/rncse/18/2/do-scientist ... reject-god

Compare the way biologists have attacked Sheldrake's theory with the way psychologists and physicians tolerate parapsychology. Universities have had laboratories for this. Consider the hospital study I mentioned.
"We found large differences between the effect sizes reported for complete MBSR programs vs. “pure” meditation."
- "The Effects of Mindfulness Meditation: A Meta-Analysis" by Eberth and Sedlmeier
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Re: Dalai Lama Statement on his Reincarnation

Postby Bodhidharma on Thu Dec 18, 2014 10:06 pm

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-30510018

In a wide-ranging interview with the BBC's Newsnight programme, during a visit to Rome for the 14th World Summit of Nobel Laureates, the 79-year-old spiritual leader conceded that he may not have a successor.

Whether another Dalai Lama came after him would depend on the circumstances after his death and was "up to the Tibetan people", he said.

He pointed out that the role no longer included political responsibilities; in 2011 the Dalai Lama handed these to an elected leader of the Tibetan government in exile, Lobsang Sangay.

The move was seen by many as a way the Dalai Lama could ensure the Tibetan community would have an elected leader in place outside the control of China.

China has said repeatedly that it will choose the next Dalai Lama.

"The Dalai Lama institution will cease one day. These man-made institutions will cease," the Dalai Lama told the BBC.

"There is no guarantee that some stupid Dalai Lama won't come next, who will disgrace himself or herself. That would be very sad. So, much better that a centuries-old tradition should cease at the time of a quite popular Dalai Lama."

Tibetan Buddhism's second-highest figure is the Panchen Lama - a figure who is meant to play a key role in the choice of the next Dalai Lama.

A young boy was named as Panchen Lama by the Dalai Lama in 1995, but China rejected this and chose its own candidate. The whereabouts of the Dalai Lama's choice are unknown.
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Re: Dalai Lama Statement on his Reincarnation

Postby fukasetsu on Fri Dec 19, 2014 12:11 am

"The Dalai Lama institution will cease one day. These man-made institutions will cease," the Dalai Lama told the BBC.


Perfect.
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Re: Dalai Lama Statement on his Reincarnation

Postby Bodhidharma on Fri Dec 19, 2014 2:00 am

The Chinese have kidnapped the original reincarnated Panchen Lama, and the boy's family. Nothing has been heard from them since. The Chinese only say they are safe and sound.. somewhere.

In his place, the Chinese have another Panchen lama, chosen by Beijing. He is being treated with thinly veiled contempt and disgust by his fellow Tibetan, but he carries on as Panchen Lama, as ordered by Beijing.

In the Tibetan system, the Dalai Lama and Panchen Lama would take turns to reincarnate. Dalai Lama would tutor and guide the young reincarnated Panchen Lama. When Dalai Lama dies and reincarnates, the now grown Panchen Lama would assume leadership and becomes the tutor and guide of the reincarnated Dalai lama. That way, the system is always run by an adult, and there is a continuation of the leadership.

All that is gone now, thanks to imperial commie scum.

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