Welcome admin !

It is currently Sat Sep 23, 2017 12:09 pm
Pathway:  Board index General Buddhist Discussion General Buddha Dharma

Reinventing the Retreat

For discussion of Buddha Dharma, including teachings common to all Buddhist schools, such as the Four Noble Truths, Dependent Origination, etc., that is not specific to Mahayana or Therevada

Reinventing the Retreat

Postby clyde on Tue May 14, 2013 12:01 am

This is a link to a Buddhist Geeks podcast, wherein Vince Horn interviews his wife Emily about retreats. Although they are not Zen Buddhists practitioners, they are Buddhist practitioners and you may find what they have to say about their experiences of value:

http://www.buddhistgeeks.com/2013/04/bg ... e-retreat/
“Enlightenment means to see what harm you are involved in and to renounce it.” David Brazier, The New Buddhism

DO NO HARM
User avatar
clyde
 
Posts: 1283
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 2:00 am
Location: Sacramento, CA

Re: Reinventing the Retreat

Postby Carol on Tue May 14, 2013 3:32 am

clyde wrote:This is a link to a Buddhist Geeks podcast, wherein Vince Horn interviews his wife Emily about retreats. Although they are not Zen Buddhists practitioners, they are Buddhist practitioners and you may find what they have to say about their experiences of value:

http://www.buddhistgeeks.com/2013/04/bg ... e-retreat/


Can you give a synopsis of what they say so I'll know better whether I want to take the time to listen to the podcast? What kind of retreats are they talking about and how are those retreats different from Zen retreats?

~Carol
Practitioners who cultivate the personal realization of buddha knowledge dwell in the bliss of whatever is present and do not abandon their practice.
~Lankavatara Sutra
User avatar
Carol
 
Posts: 10326
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 2:52 am
Location: Santa Rosa, CA

Re: Reinventing the Retreat

Postby clyde on Tue May 14, 2013 7:58 am

Both Emily and Vince have trained with teachers of Insight Meditation Society and Spirit Rock, and have done “silent retreats”, meditating 10 to 12 hours per day and are familiar with meditation techniques. They have both done a two month retreat. They talk about their initial ‘beliefs’ about the retreats, their experiences, integrating the experiences and returning to their lives, and how their views about retreats evolved. They also talk about a form of “life retreat” that they’ve begun to use with their students.
“Enlightenment means to see what harm you are involved in and to renounce it.” David Brazier, The New Buddhism

DO NO HARM
User avatar
clyde
 
Posts: 1283
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 2:00 am
Location: Sacramento, CA

Re: Reinventing the Retreat

Postby Chrisd on Tue May 14, 2013 4:19 pm

OK some points of the talk.

Doing immersive in your life retreat vs silent retreat differences:
Silent retreat unique benefit: level of samadhi or concentration that you can develop, that kind of concentration allows the penetration of consciousness in a different way.
Life retreat benefit: life is full of opportunities to practice, you work with the present experience, more personalized help. No set curriculum.

Two quotes:
People confuse this non-ordinary state of mind that's cultivated on retreat (concentration level) as the goal, and its not the goal of practice. It's easy to get identified with the special states. One of the benefits of a more immersive in-life retreat is you see those things happen much more quickly on a daily basis. More of a quality of integrating these states as you go.
We're trying to reinvent the retreat.
It's not as fixed and mechanical. It's more fluid, more about personal experience. We're working right there with the present experience. It takes a level of personalized contact.


I was hoping there would be more information about how they conduct these retreats, how retreats could be conducted. But maybe that's not so easy for them to explain because the help is personal and different for everyone... still...

If you wanna hear about their retreat idea's, there's not much more to it than what I just wrote about so you can read that, or you can skip to the last 5 minutes of the talk.
Chrisd
 
Posts: 2293
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:49 pm

Re: Reinventing the Retreat

Postby Chrisd on Tue May 14, 2013 4:29 pm

How did you come across this website Clyde?

I find it hard to take them seriously with this information below.

This is a next still open for registration retreat:

One-on-One Instruction : Weekly 45-minute video sessions with the teacher–to explore your practice on a regular basis.
Small Group Meetings : Hour-long video hangouts each week with a small group of peers, and facilitator, to check-in and explore various topics related to integrating practice and life.
Group hangouts take place on Tuesdays at 6pm PST / 7:00pm MST / 9:00pm EST

The cost of this retreat is $700-900 (Sliding Scale).
*Payment plan available upon request.

How can they even suggest to charge so much money for a couple of sessions at home each week???
They charge more than a week of intensive outdoors retreat.

This makes me think of treeleaf, do they charge anything at all?
Chrisd
 
Posts: 2293
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:49 pm

Re: Reinventing the Retreat

Postby clyde on Tue May 14, 2013 4:54 pm

Chris;

I’ve followed Buddhist Geeks for many years, almost from their beginnings and have come to know Vince. I think he’s an excellent interviewer and has interviewed many interesting Buddhist teachers. I’ve met Vince once at the first Buddhist Geeks conference. He and Emily are dedicated Buddhist practitioners and now teachers. Here is a recommendation from their teachers:
Vincent and Emily are a dynamic team. As community dharma leaders they bring years of committed meditation practice rooted in the Thai Forest tradition. Both Vincent and Emily have experience helping people find their path of awakening, and a passion for the embodiment of Buddhist wisdom. We have been guiding their practice closely, including on several long retreats. We feel confident that their depth of practice and sincerity will be a great asset as they share the dharma with others. It is a pleasure to encourage and support their teaching.

Jack Kornfield & Trudy Goodman
Spirit Rock Meditation Center

I’ve not participated in their “life retreats”, was intrigued . . . but I too was shocked at the cost.

clyde
“Enlightenment means to see what harm you are involved in and to renounce it.” David Brazier, The New Buddhism

DO NO HARM
User avatar
clyde
 
Posts: 1283
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 2:00 am
Location: Sacramento, CA

Re: Reinventing the Retreat

Postby Pedestrian on Tue May 14, 2013 4:57 pm

Chrisd wrote:This makes me think of treeleaf, do they charge anything at all?


Not ever, of which I'm aware.
"Buddha, to liberate beings, cultivates practices everywhere." Avatamsaka Sutra.

Chris Seishi Amirault
Pedestrian
Benevolent Street Sangha
User avatar
Pedestrian
 
Posts: 1328
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:24 am
Location: Rhode Island USA

Re: Reinventing the Retreat

Postby Chrisd on Tue May 14, 2013 6:18 pm

Pedestrian wrote:
Chrisd wrote:This makes me think of treeleaf, do they charge anything at all?


Not ever, of which I'm aware.


Quite remarkable!!

The great thing with online sittings - retreats - groups, I thought, was that there were no facilities to pay for and so much less costs.

I can do 2 hours of sitting and talking with a group here and have a private dokusan with the teacher about anything for about 5 minutes each week. Quite similar to what they seem to offer for the retreat.
The difference being, I pay 39 euros a month for it here, if I would participate in that retreat I would pay 539 euros for it (taking the $700 one). And this group I'm talking about is being criticized for being too commercial with Zen (on this website even)! How can you defend such costs while claiming to teach Buddhism?

Seems a shame because I like the idea and was thinking of participating. Only upper-class Buddhists here.
Chrisd
 
Posts: 2293
Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2012 5:49 pm

Re: Reinventing the Retreat

Postby Carol on Tue May 14, 2013 6:57 pm

There are spiritual teachers of various flavors/traditions who approach it as a profession to support themselves. This is a different approach from the traditional teaching for dana (donations).

I have very mixed feelings about it. On the one-hand, perhaps, it's a bit like any other kind of seminar where people pay to learn from an expert teacher with extensive training and expertise.

On the other hand, I do have real misgivings about charging money (beyond covering reasonable expenses) to teach the Dharma. I strongly support dharma centers and monasteries, and donate to more than one of them to help them build or maintain their facilities or pay their rent and utilities, and for their scholarship funds and to cover other expenses. And I hope they have enough money to provide their resident teachers with a living/housing so that they can devote most or all of their time to teaching. When I know that a teacher is not supported by his/her sangha (because the sangha is too small or poor) I always give dana (a donation) to the teacher as well to help him/her supplement his income and in gratitude for his/her generosity in taking time away from paid work in order to teach a retreat.

I'm not really comfortable with the commercialization of dharma retreats as a money-making business for teachers. It just doesn't feel right to me. I don't mind them making money by writing books, though. So maybe I'm not entirely consistent. But not all great teachers are good writers!
Practitioners who cultivate the personal realization of buddha knowledge dwell in the bliss of whatever is present and do not abandon their practice.
~Lankavatara Sutra
User avatar
Carol
 
Posts: 10326
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 2:52 am
Location: Santa Rosa, CA

Re: Reinventing the Retreat

Postby clyde on Tue May 14, 2013 9:32 pm

To be clear: I posted the link to the podcast because I found what Vince and Emily had to say about retreats interesting and worth sharing, not to promote their “life retreats”. As I wrote in response to Carol’s initial request, “They talk about their initial ‘beliefs’ about the retreats, their experiences, integrating the experiences and returning to their lives, and how their views about retreats evolved.”

The issue of Dharma teachers, sanghas and money would be a great topic; perhaps a moderator (Carol) could break-off and/or begin such a topic.
“Enlightenment means to see what harm you are involved in and to renounce it.” David Brazier, The New Buddhism

DO NO HARM
User avatar
clyde
 
Posts: 1283
Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2009 2:00 am
Location: Sacramento, CA

Re: Reinventing the Retreat

Postby Kojip on Wed May 15, 2013 1:35 am

Chrisd wrote:
This makes me think of treeleaf, do they charge anything at all?


The cost of participation at Treeleaf is commitment to practice, and engagement in your world through good work. When taking Jukai it is requested that you make a monetary donation to a charity or cause of your choosing. Treeleaf has been impeccable in offering teachings and support with an open hand.

Gassho, Richard.
User avatar
Kojip
 
Posts: 2906
Joined: Sat Nov 21, 2009 6:38 pm

Re: Reinventing the Retreat

Postby SkyDragon on Thu Jul 06, 2017 5:50 am

I realize this is rather late, but I am wondering if anyone has a copy of BG 285_ Reinventing the Retreat (23 Apr 2013) referred to above?

It seems very difficult to locate online anywhere.

Thanks for any help with this.
SkyDragon
 
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:55 pm
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Reinventing the Retreat

Postby jundo on Thu Jul 06, 2017 6:40 am

SkyDragon wrote:I realize this is rather late, but I am wondering if anyone has a copy of BG 285_ Reinventing the Retreat (23 Apr 2013) referred to above?

It seems very difficult to locate online anywhere.

Thanks for any help with this.


Ah, the late great Buddhist Geeks. I cannot find this episode on soundcloud, where they have archives.

https://soundcloud.com/buddhistgeeks/bg ... he-retreat

However. do check out this episode. It is life changing. :)

https://soundcloud.com/buddhistgeeks/vi ... g-here-and

Gassho, Jundo
Founder Treeleaf Zendo, Japan. Member SZBA. Treeleaf is an online Sangha for those unable to commute to a Sangha, w/ netcast Zazen, interaction with other practitioners and teachers & all activities of a Soto Sangha, fully online without charge (http://www.treeleaf.org) Nishijima/Niwa
User avatar
jundo
Teacher
 
Posts: 294
Joined: Sat Feb 25, 2017 5:47 am


Return to General Buddha Dharma

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider] and 1 guest

 
RocketTheme Joomla Templates

Who is online

In total there are 2 users online :: 1 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 157 on Mon Sep 19, 2016 8:44 am

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider] and 1 guest