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Right Speech in the Digital Age

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Right Speech in the Digital Age

Postby Carol on Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:24 am

Found this good article over at the Secular Buddhist Association

Right Speech in This Digital Age

Dana Nourie | February 6, 2013 | 13 Comments

“And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.” — SN 45.8
.

“Monks, a statement endowed with five factors is well-spoken, not ill-spoken. It is blameless & unfaulted by knowledgeable people. Which five? It is spoken at the right time. It is spoken in truth. It is spoken affectionately. It is spoken beneficially. It is spoken with a mind of good-will.” — AN 5.198
.

In the day that the above statements were first expressed, communication was almost entirely face to face. When we talk to others in person, we have the advantage of seeing facial and body expressions, asking for clarity instantly, and we have a feel for how well the conversation is moving. Communication has changed in ways that bring new complications. We live in a digital world now, where communication is being passed via the written word through many mediums: email, texting, discussion forums, Facebook, Twitter, etc. Because of this, Right Speech is not less important, it’s more important.

Digital communication comes with it’s own set of problems that can make communication even more challenging than talking face to face. Meaning and intent can be lost or misunderstood with a few unskillfully typed words. Often there is not enough context to glean the intent. User names remove accountability, allowing people to say things online that they’d never say to someone in person. Typing out words quickly and hitting enter is all too easy, and encourages us to be impulsive. And with our words competing against the vast amount of other information out there, it could look like a whole lot of blah, blah, blah!

When I first investigated Right Speech in my practice years ago, I focused on the being careful not to lie or be divisive, and I struggled a bit with the idle chatter. Over the years, as my communications spread in digital media, I found my practice deepening as I investigated Right Speech in new ways.

As I’ve worked in various online communities over the years, I’ve become more mindful to how my thinking processes work when I have a keyboard at my fingertips versus when I’m face to face with someone. In spite of the fact that when I type my thoughts into a forum, and I know I am communicating with others, I notice how the self arises. The focus of self wraps itself up tightly in my opinions, my thoughts, what I want to express, and the desire to be heard. If I’m not mindful, I can easily find myself typing out my opinion for the sake of merely expressing my opinion, almost forgetting that I’m communicating with others. This is a subtle and sneaky way self arises.

I find it helpful to revisit Right Speech often, to remind myself the reasons for communication in the first place. Do we need to share our opinions to help others, or are we asserting our sense of self? When we are annoyed by the beliefs or opinions of others is it because the self is asserting itself? Are we honestly dealing with our intent in engaging in online conversations? What are those intents?

When I look at my intent for getting involved with any online conversation, I learn a lot about myself, my need for approval concerning my ideas or beliefs, my need to align myself with others who think in a similar way, my need to assert my opinion when I think others are wrong. I find in investigating Right Speech, I discover new ways the self arises, responds, etc. It’s interesting to take the investigation further and resist responding when I feel the self wanting to assert itself, or when I feel the need to correct someone who I feel is wrong. How much of my communication is because I want to be helpful, how much is idle chatter, and how much is friendship building?

Investigating Right Speech can give us special insight into our daily motivations, into our intentions, and into the assertion of self, or ego if you prefer that word. I find in exploring Right Speech I also have to call on my mindfulness skills, Right Intention, and Right Effort.

I’d like to invite you to take pause the next time you go to type an entry in an online discussion, or on Facebook, and ask yourself, Does what I’m going to type fall into Right Speech? What is my motivation here?

And of course, we all still have Right Speech to investigate when talking to others in person. A while back, I had noticed that when I met in person with friends, or via video, which is similar, I’d often find my self chattering about my own life and interests. I promised myself that whenever I engaged in conversation with a friend that I would make sure that not far into the conversation I’d make a point to ask about them, their interests, their lives, and to always make sure I am giving back to the friendship through Right Speech. I do very much appreciate the people I’ve chosen to have in my life as friends, and I want to make sure they know I am genuinely interested in them and how they’re doing.

The more I investigate Right Speech, the more useful I find it to be. Right Speech is a wonderful tool if you are willing to investigate it, and I think you’ll find doing so will enrich your practice.
Practitioners who cultivate the personal realization of buddha knowledge dwell in the bliss of whatever is present and do not abandon their practice.
~Lankavatara Sutra
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Re: Right Speech in the Digital Age

Postby Riverstone on Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:48 am

There is something obviously missing from the communication which is given over a forum or even facebook. I have two freinds specifically which when we try to communicate online, we get our wires crossed. Yet directly in front of one another there is none of this misunderstanding nor miscommunication. We have taken to being as direct and short as possible online.
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Re: Right Speech in the Digital Age

Postby Linda Anderson on Sun Feb 10, 2013 6:23 am

If it's not working, try SKYPE.

While it's difficult in a two dimensional conversation to communicate, it is partly due to how open and available we are to hearing and expressing ... so it is both an issue of both the media and who is hearing... not to mention how meticulous we are in writing and expressing ourselves. All great topics for further inquiry. :)

In a way, we are all writing novels.... meaning that our audience has no previous frame of reference... so writer beware!

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Re: Right Speech in the Digital Age

Postby fukasetsu on Sun Feb 10, 2013 10:07 pm

Linda Anderson wrote: ... so it is both an issue of both the media and who is hearing... not to mention how meticulous we are in writing and expressing ourselves. All great topics for further inquiry. :)


For me "right speech" is dependent on conditions and circumstances.
It's about letting speech function correctly in whatever situation what makes it "right", without ofcourse having the arrogance of calling it right speech.
It's also cultural dependent, and I 'think' the online mentioning of Buddhist among each other regarding "right speech" is silly to say the least, especially anyone claiming to know what "right speech" is with merely quoting something from scripture, although they are pretty save universal guidelines.
There seems to be too much of a preconception about what so called others say, too often some cloud hangs over 'spiritual' forums and ones freedom of expression is limited just because it might be conceived of as 'wrong speech' by others. 'Even' I would alter my tongue in here (word wise) just because it is a Buddhist forum, while probably in the flesh hardly anyone of you would frown upon my normal tongue.
Not that it is a problem for adapting to conditions is something I do 24/7 without effort, still I believe threads like this only make it worse (the point I'm making about the cloud/veil thingy) at the same time responsibility and honesty also seem big Buddhist agenda points, so for me something doesn't compute on spiritual forums.
On regular forums there's never an issue, whatever you say is always bound to offend someone, that one mentions it, the other one says "I didn't mean it like that but will take it into consideration when talking to you" and case closed. No moral point milking or entertainment of expedient religious thingies is necessary.
It's more open, honest and direct, at least compared to my 'upbringing' and local culture it is.
At least it leaves less room for hypocrisy.
Differences are never in opposition.
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Re: Right Speech in the Digital Age

Postby Ko_Shin on Mon Feb 11, 2013 2:20 am

The focus of self wraps itself up tightly in my opinions, my thoughts, what I want to express, and the desire to be heard. If I’m not mindful, I can easily find myself typing out my opinion for the sake of merely expressing my opinion, almost forgetting that I’m communicating with others. This is a subtle and sneaky way self arises.


I think this is pointing at the heart of it.

Right speech for me is easiest when I'm communicating something about the world, something other than a defense or definition of "ME" or "YOU".

Unlike a face to face, or even voice to voice, interactive communication there is little room to let the other channels of communication, like body language, tone of voice, take care of showing up as you or understanding another person. So through the narrow channel of nearly anonymous text the I wants to ensure it gets through that narrow channel with all the more urgency.

So right speech within the context of email or twitter or web forums, text only formats (for the most part), it takes more care to practice right speech.

Thankfully our digital lives are ever growing more rich, with more interactivity, more communication channels (video, voice, etc...) so I think the digital communication world is by and large a positive thing. It is first teaching us to be mindful of how to practice right speech and continues to open up more connections and more opportunities to experience connection with others.

(Side note: Have you ever read letters written in the 19th century? For example the excerpts of letters both professional and personal in "A Team of Rivals" are so expressive and so carefully crafted it is clear people were aware of the potential pitfalls of text only communication and took care to speak with care.)
"Whether the water is cold or warm, only you will know, and it is not something you can describe to others."
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Re: Right Speech in the Digital Age

Postby Pedestrian on Tue Feb 12, 2013 9:08 pm

Ko_Shin wrote:Unlike a face to face, or even voice to voice, interactive communication there is little room to let the other channels of communication, like body language, tone of voice, take care of showing up as you or understanding another person. So through the narrow channel of nearly anonymous text the I wants to ensure it gets through that narrow channel with all the more urgency.


I agree -- or should I say, I agree! I tend to use way more exclamation points in internet communication than I do in any other form of written communication, just to convey intent clearly. (I don't use them at all in face-to-face communication. Just sayin'.)

When I read your first sentence, I thought to add "or even voice to ear." My regular dharma podcasts are a reminder of just how much more we communicate than words. I've listened to this podcast by Norman Fischer a couple of times, and his laughter at his own joke about retiring near the end of the podcast is a particularly rich example.
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Re: Right Speech in the Digital Age

Postby l_rivers on Sat Feb 23, 2013 7:57 pm

I sometimes read my own posts after a certain amount of time is past and see a face I don't recognize. It is educational. Inside our minds we know what were talking about and what influences are going on on the elements of what we speak about without including those elements as part of the conversation. Their absence in the conversation is invisible to us like bathwater to which we've become accustomed slowly. It is the absence of those elements as “conditioners” that creates bald statements. And sometimes seeing those bald statements you realize an agenda that may have been important to you that you covered over like a slightly soured chicken breast with cheesy sweet sauce. Just saying. A good part of communication is spending just a few moments thinking about who you're talking to and what understandings they bring to the conversation. This is 2nd nature for teachers and toastmasters. And considering this is part of what the Buddha was talking about when he included the word “kindness” as part of right speech.
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Re: Right Speech in the Digital Age

Postby Taigu on Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:51 am

The way I go about it is simple: I refrain from posting untill my mind is still. Or I write stuff and don t send it, once I come back to it it is just plain obvious and far too agressive and I just drop it.

Gassho


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Re: Right Speech in the Digital Age

Postby Pedestrian on Mon Mar 11, 2013 2:52 pm

Taigu wrote:The way I go about it is simple: I refrain from posting untill my mind is still. Or I write stuff and don t send it, once I come back to it it is just plain obvious and far too agressive and I just drop it.


Simple, yet it seems to me to be a good way to approach just about everything one might say or write. Gassho, Taigu.
"Buddha, to liberate beings, cultivates practices everywhere." Avatamsaka Sutra.

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Re: Right Speech in the Digital Age

Postby Samsaric Spiral on Thu Jul 18, 2013 3:32 pm

For me, people who get angry over "bad speech" and hold grudges are much worse than those who can write "good speech".

The dichotomy between good and bad speech is fallacious. It doesn't matter what you say, it matters what you do. That's why business men in fancy suits have never swayed me with their fake good speech. I'd rather receive a slap from a Zen teacher and a couple of insults instead.
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Re: Right Speech in the Digital Age

Postby ed blanco on Thu Jul 18, 2013 5:41 pm

Taigu wrote:The way I go about it is simple: I refrain from posting untill my mind is still. Or I write stuff and don t send it, once I come back to it it is just plain obvious and far too agressive and I just drop it.

Gassho


Taigu


A recommendation I take to heart.

Laying back and waiting to have something to say sounds good for me.


:O:
IT SPEAKS IN SILENCE
IN SPEECH YOU HEAR ITS SILENCE

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Re: Right Speech in the Digital Age

Postby Pedestrian on Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:24 am

Samsaric Spiral wrote:It doesn't matter what you say, it matters what you do.


But isn't the act of speaking or writing doing something?
"Buddha, to liberate beings, cultivates practices everywhere." Avatamsaka Sutra.

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Re: Right Speech in the Digital Age

Postby lobster on Sun Jul 21, 2013 10:36 am

:heya:
Everbody can hear a hug coming . . .
:hugs:

As someone who belongs to the loudest expression of almost-dharma :dance:
I feel right speech starts with right listening . . .

Even silence can be very loud and expressive and the noise of one mind gently quietened be too loud for the sleeping meditators . . . :hide:

was Buddha a 'party animal' :p:
No? :ghug:

OK, stone statue Zen service now resumed :buddha:
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Re: Right Speech in the Digital Age

Postby Trolnieser on Fri Oct 11, 2013 9:07 pm

I like the reminder from the author to check your motivation. What good advice. I find when I take a real look, my motivation usually smells a little bit. I don't think I have ever experienced being completely clean.
In fact, I think it might even be more difficult digitally. There is so much time to craft out our perfect answers. And then after all that work...yuck, blech, foul.
It would be great for us to have a section where the goal in writing is purity, rather than proof of enlightenment or lots of Buddhist knowledge. Wouldn't that be good?
I must say, I've admired some people here on the forum who, oh my goodness, your purity shines through. Keep up the good work.

Carol wrote:Found this good article over at the Secular Buddhist Association

Right Speech in This Digital Age

Dana Nourie | February 6, 2013 | 13 Comments

“And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.” — SN 45.8
.

“Monks, a statement endowed with five factors is well-spoken, not ill-spoken. It is blameless & unfaulted by knowledgeable people. Which five? It is spoken at the right time. It is spoken in truth. It is spoken affectionately. It is spoken beneficially. It is spoken with a mind of good-will.” — AN 5.198
.

In the day that the above statements were first expressed, communication was almost entirely face to face. When we talk to others in person, we have the advantage of seeing facial and body expressions, asking for clarity instantly, and we have a feel for how well the conversation is moving. Communication has changed in ways that bring new complications. We live in a digital world now, where communication is being passed via the written word through many mediums: email, texting, discussion forums, Facebook, Twitter, etc. Because of this, Right Speech is not less important, it’s more important.

Digital communication comes with it’s own set of problems that can make communication even more challenging than talking face to face. Meaning and intent can be lost or misunderstood with a few unskillfully typed words. Often there is not enough context to glean the intent. User names remove accountability, allowing people to say things online that they’d never say to someone in person. Typing out words quickly and hitting enter is all too easy, and encourages us to be impulsive. And with our words competing against the vast amount of other information out there, it could look like a whole lot of blah, blah, blah!

When I first investigated Right Speech in my practice years ago, I focused on the being careful not to lie or be divisive, and I struggled a bit with the idle chatter. Over the years, as my communications spread in digital media, I found my practice deepening as I investigated Right Speech in new ways.

As I’ve worked in various online communities over the years, I’ve become more mindful to how my thinking processes work when I have a keyboard at my fingertips versus when I’m face to face with someone. In spite of the fact that when I type my thoughts into a forum, and I know I am communicating with others, I notice how the self arises. The focus of self wraps itself up tightly in my opinions, my thoughts, what I want to express, and the desire to be heard. If I’m not mindful, I can easily find myself typing out my opinion for the sake of merely expressing my opinion, almost forgetting that I’m communicating with others. This is a subtle and sneaky way self arises.

I find it helpful to revisit Right Speech often, to remind myself the reasons for communication in the first place. Do we need to share our opinions to help others, or are we asserting our sense of self? When we are annoyed by the beliefs or opinions of others is it because the self is asserting itself? Are we honestly dealing with our intent in engaging in online conversations? What are those intents?

When I look at my intent for getting involved with any online conversation, I learn a lot about myself, my need for approval concerning my ideas or beliefs, my need to align myself with others who think in a similar way, my need to assert my opinion when I think others are wrong. I find in investigating Right Speech, I discover new ways the self arises, responds, etc. It’s interesting to take the investigation further and resist responding when I feel the self wanting to assert itself, or when I feel the need to correct someone who I feel is wrong. How much of my communication is because I want to be helpful, how much is idle chatter, and how much is friendship building?

Investigating Right Speech can give us special insight into our daily motivations, into our intentions, and into the assertion of self, or ego if you prefer that word. I find in exploring Right Speech I also have to call on my mindfulness skills, Right Intention, and Right Effort.

I’d like to invite you to take pause the next time you go to type an entry in an online discussion, or on Facebook, and ask yourself, Does what I’m going to type fall into Right Speech? What is my motivation here?

And of course, we all still have Right Speech to investigate when talking to others in person. A while back, I had noticed that when I met in person with friends, or via video, which is similar, I’d often find my self chattering about my own life and interests. I promised myself that whenever I engaged in conversation with a friend that I would make sure that not far into the conversation I’d make a point to ask about them, their interests, their lives, and to always make sure I am giving back to the friendship through Right Speech. I do very much appreciate the people I’ve chosen to have in my life as friends, and I want to make sure they know I am genuinely interested in them and how they’re doing.

The more I investigate Right Speech, the more useful I find it to be. Right Speech is a wonderful tool if you are willing to investigate it, and I think you’ll find doing so will enrich your practice.
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Re: Right Speech in the Digital Age

Postby klqv on Sat Oct 12, 2013 3:29 am

I find when I take a real look, my motivation usually smells a little bit.
for me, motivation in discussion is just an abstract term - meaning the reasons that you agree or disagree.

i would add that as long as you "act well", as has been said, on top of that, then one can cause little harm. i do not always do so, sometimes i know that i am posting to pick a fight with someone's behaviour rather then the content of their post. but everyone has the capacity to grow :Namaste:
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Re: Right Speech in the Digital Age

Postby Trolnieser on Sat Oct 12, 2013 6:11 am

An example of motivation being important would be, " If I am really nice to him, he might leave me more money in his will"
Now you may be "acting well" but your motivation isn't so great.
Motivation is often suggested almost as a tool. Before you speak, check your motiviation.
I don't think motivation is more abstract than anything else. But, it's true that it is not always clear.
In comparing abstractness I would think "act well" is more abstract than "motivation".

klqv wrote:
I find when I take a real look, my motivation usually smells a little bit.
for me, motivation in discussion is just an abstract term - meaning the reasons that you agree or disagree.

i would add that as long as you "act well", as has been said, on top of that, then one can cause little harm. i do not always do so, sometimes i know that i am posting to pick a fight with someone's behaviour rather then the content of their post. but everyone has the capacity to grow :Namaste:
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Re: Right Speech in the Digital Age

Postby lobster on Sat Oct 12, 2013 8:13 am

:heya:

Investigating Right Speech can give us special insight into our daily motivations, into our intentions, and into the assertion of self, or ego if you prefer that word. I find in exploring Right Speech I also have to call on my mindfulness skills, Right Intention, and Right Effort.


Motivation is key. Most of us are unaware of the subtleties of even a tiny, little, almost non self ego :hide:

. . . however there it is . . . in the expression :dance: or [insert nearly empty formation of choice]

Reception is the key to being aware of the nature of communication. Many ideal communications in the dharma sense go largely unnoticed . . . or filtered through the ego formerly known as 'me'

We are in a sense always an expression :daisy: or communicating through being :O:

Here is an example of New Age strolling/chattering/being :p:

Go placidly amid the noise and haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence.

As far as possible, without surrender, be on good terms with all persons. Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even to the dull and the ignorant, they too have their story. Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexations to the spirit.

If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain and bitter; for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself. Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans. Keep interested in your own career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time.

Exercise caution in your business affairs, for the world is full of trickery. But let this not blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals, and everywhere life is full of heroism. Be yourself. Especially, do not feign affection. Neither be cynical about love, for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment it is perennial as the grass.

Take kindly to the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth. Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with imaginings. Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness.

Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should.

Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be, and whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life, keep peace in your soul.

With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world.

Be cheerful. Strive to be happy.

Max Ehrmann c.1920
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Re: Right Speech in the Digital Age

Postby klqv on Thu Oct 17, 2013 3:58 am

Trolnieser wrote:An example of motivation being important would be, " If I am really nice to him, he might leave me more money in his will"
Now you may be "acting well" but your motivation isn't so great.
Motivation is often suggested almost as a tool. Before you speak, check your motiviation.
I don't think motivation is more abstract than anything else. But, it's true that it is not always clear.
In comparing abstractness I would think "act well" is more abstract than "motivation".

klqv wrote:
I find when I take a real look, my motivation usually smells a little bit.
for me, motivation in discussion is just an abstract term - meaning the reasons that you agree or disagree.

i would add that as long as you "act well", as has been said, on top of that, then one can cause little harm

i should still be nice to this rich dying man; just not care for him before the penniless man dying next to him. that's simply human dignity, and is about behaviour rather than motivation per se.


of course it's good to know yourself, but imho primarily to act accordingly.
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Re: Right Speech in the Digital Age

Postby Linda Anderson on Thu Oct 17, 2013 5:12 am

klqv wrote:
Trolnieser wrote:An example of motivation being important would be, " If I am really nice to him, he might leave me more money in his will"
Now you may be "acting well" but your motivation isn't so great.
Motivation is often suggested almost as a tool. Before you speak, check your motiviation.
I don't think motivation is more abstract than anything else. But, it's true that it is not always clear.
In comparing abstractness I would think "act well" is more abstract than "motivation".

klqv wrote:
I find when I take a real look, my motivation usually smells a little bit.
for me, motivation in discussion is just an abstract term - meaning the reasons that you agree or disagree.

i would add that as long as you "act well", as has been said, on top of that, then one can cause little harm

i should still be nice to this rich dying man; just not care for him before the penniless man dying next to him. that's simply human dignity, and is about behaviour rather than motivation per se.

of course it's good to know yourself, but imho primarily to act accordingly.


Luke, Good to see you again. :daisy:

Agree, actions speak louder than words.... all sorts of things, like ideas and motivation, come up in the mind. It's just key to keep our heart on what really matters as you have said.


Trolnieser said:
I don't think motivation is more abstract than anything else. But, it's true that it is not always clear.
In comparing abstractness I would think "act well" is more abstract than "motivation".


Seems like motivation and the idea of "acting well" are both forms of abstraction, until we go beyond abstraction, until we connect to our deeper sensibility. it's hard to navigate from an intellectual place. We all are looking for intimacy with our deeper selves and what really matters.

We all have thoughts like this arise, so it's ok not to give yourself a bad time about it. When my divorce was happening 20+ years ago, it crossed my mind how I would profit if my spouse dropped dead... thank the lord it didn't happen, but I didn't ask for that thought. It's a pretty normal reaction to survival when we think that it depends on dollars and cents and paying the rent.... until we get over it. I still can't say that I've recovered from that illusion... but the laughter is returning. it's a good sign.
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not this morning;
Melon flowers bloomed.
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Re: Right Speech in the Digital Age

Postby Bosquedeloro on Sat Oct 19, 2013 2:16 pm

For whatever it may be worth worth here....I much appreciate how Daniel Goleman looks at the way we are present to people in relationship - how we are present to the way they are feeling, their emotions, and our own. Goleman calls it Emotinal Intelligence - EI. Goleman thinks it is more important than IQ. http://www.amazon.ca/Emotional-Intellig ... 055338371X

EI seems to be the massive purple elephant in the room any time two people are present and which is even more forgettable when online. The ways we communicate today when not face to face almost guarantees mistaken readings - if any readings at all, seems to me. I'm noticing here that so many are so completely enlightened online that it is practically an embarrassment to impart an emotion, vulnerability, mistake, unforgivable lapsed moment of self or otherwise authentic 'flawed' human response. I noticed the exact same thing when visiting a couple of Zen centers some years ago - and that was face to face. Lots of unsolicited enlightened posing and little authentic communication or EI. The ever present Presumption seems to be that all the poor foolish person needs is a good teaching-to. Is it any wonder that feel-good religion is so popular although they too split hairs in threes. We are naturally respons-able for owr own EI. But there can be some confusion in any spiritual community (- secular spiritual community too, there is an epistemology and a metaphysics regardless of the wish to ignore it-) when an authentic response is self denied or self postponed and often even preempted by a well meaning zealot. I'm not sure but Isn't this exactly why right speech is taught? I think I'll just call it something like Right Emotional Intelligence Online. REIO for short. It may be next to impossible except for my own noting of it. And yet, I get the sense of EI clearly in Pedestrian's responses and comments. His responses seem organic and natural and wouldn't that be the result of mindful but courageous emotional observations - EI?

Yes Linda, Skype is a pretty good solution as I find it. Thanks!

Respectfully, if unskillfully, submitted.
Bosquedeloro
 
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