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All words are same

For discussion of Buddha Dharma, including teachings common to all Buddhist schools, such as the Four Noble Truths, Dependent Origination, etc., that is not specific to Mahayana or Therevada

All words are same

Postby organizational on Sun Sep 24, 2017 1:23 pm

All words are what you understand
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Re: All words are same

Postby desert_woodworker on Sun Sep 24, 2017 2:34 pm

org'l, Enver,

There is understanding without words, also.

The "Wordless Doctrine" of Zen Buddhism is an understanding of that kind.

Unlike an understanding of words, it is more of a participation, and a direct experience and intuition of truth (Nature; Dharma), and continues moment by moment while one is Awake, in the sense of "awake" that "The Buddha" (The Awakened One) was awake.

Er-r, in other words, the understanding that Zen Buddhism highly values and is able to open (uncover) for a practitioner of its practices, is more a verb than a noun. It is miraculous and wondrous, and is the understanding enabled when there is no mind, such as "mind" is commonly (mis-)understood in the unawakened person (even one who practices, but who has not yet awakened).

What Zen Buddhism does is to universalize the awakening of Shakyamuni Buddha. And it is a tradition -- and has a history of doing that -- "without dependence on words and letters, independently from the scriptures".

best,

--Joe
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Re: All words are same

Postby organizational on Sun Sep 24, 2017 5:44 pm

desert_woodworker wrote:What Zen Buddhism does is to universalize the awakening of Shakyamuni Buddha. And it is a tradition -- and has a history of doing that -- "without dependence on words and letters, independently from the scriptures".




:Namaste:
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Re: All words are same

Postby desert_woodworker on Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:25 pm

Enver,

organizational wrote:
desert_woodworker wrote:What Zen Buddhism does is to universalize the awakening of Shakyamuni Buddha. And it is a tradition -- and has a history of doing that -- "without dependence on words and letters, independently from the scriptures".

:Namaste:

Nice! I appreciate the wordless reply. :tongueincheek:

To make the program of Zen Buddhism more than merely wonderful -- that is, to make it into a practical wonder -- of course takes the kind of practice that a Zen Buddhist teacher will teach, in the sangha surrounding the teacher, and to oneself in private connection, and for application in everyday-life.

That is, if one's interested in this. There are other paths besides, though one may find them to be more "wordy".

rgds,

--Joe
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Re: All words are same

Postby organizational on Sun Sep 24, 2017 6:37 pm

Nice!
just reading the old master's gatha's
http://diamondsutrazen.blogspot.com.tr/ ... s.html?m=1

the beginning sentence
the first sentence of the first gatha
The body is created out of nothing

and the last sentence of the last gatha which is hui Neng's
Cannot fail to bear the Bodhi-fruit.

was thinking
Which one is most powerful?
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Re: All words are same

Postby organizational on Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:02 pm

i feel like a penniless scholar
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Re: All words are same

Postby desert_woodworker on Sun Sep 24, 2017 7:12 pm

Umm, I've always liked Lu K'uan Yu's ("Charles Luk's") translations, and writings, from Hong Kong.

I think all of those 40 transmission gathas are from his book, The Transmission of the Mind Outside the Teaching (1974), Rider & Co., London.

EDIT: I see that Luk does not treat all 40 generations' gathas and stories in the book mentioned above, but Francis H. Cook treats all 40 generations in his translation of Soto Zen Master Keizan's Denkoroku. Cook's book is The Record of Transmitting the Light (1991), Center Publications.

I don't know what you mean by the question about which is the most powerful (of the Master's? Or of the gathas? Or of the awakening experiences that they describe in the gathas?), but I can say that they all describe the same, true Mind, versus the illusory "mind" of Samsara, which is not a mind at all, but a set of vexations instead. The true Mind of no-mind is what the Masters praise in their gathas.

Thanks for posting those 40 Transmission poems here.

--Joe

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Last edited by desert_woodworker on Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: All words are same

Postby organizational on Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:14 pm

to a man with a hammer
everything looks like a nail
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Re: All words are same

Postby desert_woodworker on Sun Sep 24, 2017 8:54 pm

Enver,

Those masters can make it look easy because when there's nothing but true mind (no mind), it's easy to talk about it. Some say, "Just THIS!"

--Joe
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Re: All words are same

Postby organizational on Sun Sep 24, 2017 9:47 pm

It is easy I'm just sleeping
There is a bad luckthat i don't know what
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Re: All words are same

Postby desert_woodworker on Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:50 pm

Good morning!, and I wish you a good day. And a good new week.

--Joe
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Re: All words are same

Postby organizational on Mon Sep 25, 2017 6:41 pm

No problem.
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