Welcome admin !

It is currently Sat Sep 23, 2017 12:10 pm
Pathway:  Board index General Buddhist Discussion General Buddha Dharma

chaos

For discussion of Buddha Dharma, including teachings common to all Buddhist schools, such as the Four Noble Truths, Dependent Origination, etc., that is not specific to Mahayana or Therevada

Re: chaos

Postby fukasetsu on Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:00 am

lobster wrote:As well as mind, word and emotional clearance, we have a body to sweep up after.

:heya:


Full house! :dance:

Let's saw through the ridgepole and gaze into the sky. :daisy:
Everyone for President!
User avatar
fukasetsu
 
Posts: 7249
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2009 12:17 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: chaos

Postby macdougdoug on Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:02 am

fukasetsu wrote:
What is often missed is that we cannot dissolve the chaos in our minds without dissolving the chaos in our hearts..


With regular zazen: heart and mind and the whole universe is disolved - don't know how it works, it just does. I have changed since I first joined ZFI, I used to think helping others meant explaining things, now its also about listening.
User avatar
macdougdoug
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 907
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:11 pm
Location: France

Re: chaos

Postby fukasetsu on Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:18 am

That is so mac if practised properly, but not for everyone, some of us have obstacles and knots overlooked and using zazen as ones only or dominant practise is often not enough or even counter-productive, the arrow must penetrate to the point of stirring a reaction at that level of the being where the emotional being is frozen in contraction. This opening if often quite dramatic and life changing.
Everyone for President!
User avatar
fukasetsu
 
Posts: 7249
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2009 12:17 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: chaos

Postby TTT on Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:28 am

Sudden enlightenment.

You can chnge your prespectiv from one moment to the next.

Like changing the side of a coin, from one side to the next side.

Its as if waking up from a dream. Then you go to sleep agen. And the next stagen.

All this Buddha, all this mind, all this trash where to go next?

:Namaste:
When
TTT
 
Posts: 1798
Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 8:38 am

Re: chaos

Postby fukasetsu on Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:39 am

TTT wrote:All this Buddha, all this mind, all this trash where to go next?


The one who we are fascinated with is a pure production of that mind.
just site like in a pile of ashes where there may be a stirring, a tiny light, that will grow and illuminate everything
it will sneak up when all the crap/chaos has evaporated to some extent
then you're in love with every little breeze, every vague murmur.
Everyone for President!
User avatar
fukasetsu
 
Posts: 7249
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2009 12:17 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: chaos

Postby TTT on Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:44 am

There is a song called "Adams murmur", is good, from a grupp called cynic.

Is Metal!!

Here it is :


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OQivkZJaoq0
When
TTT
 
Posts: 1798
Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 8:38 am

Re: chaos

Postby macdougdoug on Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:48 am

fukasetsu wrote:That is so mac if practised properly, but not for everyone, some of us have obstacles and knots overlooked and using zazen as ones only or dominant practise is often not enough or even counter-productive, the arrow must penetrate to the point of stirring a reaction at that level of the being where the emotional being is frozen in contraction. This opening if often quite dramatic and life changing.


The desire to see must be stronger than the desire to be me.

Siddhârta sat down and vowed not to get up until the mystery had been pierced

Maybe we must come to a point were we are really able to give up. Personally I had heard the teachings (krishnamurti, sufism and ch'an) all my young life without really understanding - my willingness to give up came because I felt that my life was a "failure".
User avatar
macdougdoug
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 907
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:11 pm
Location: France

Re: chaos

Postby fukasetsu on Thu Aug 03, 2017 12:05 pm

Nice lyrics Triple-T :)

macdougdoug wrote:The desire to see must be stronger than the desire to be me.

Siddhârta sat down and vowed not to get up until the mystery had been pierced

Maybe we must come to a point were we are really able to give up. Personally I had heard the teachings (krishnamurti, sufism and ch'an) all my young life without really understanding - my willingness to give up came because I felt that my life was a "failure".


Thanks mac, great example! :)
Everyone for President!
User avatar
fukasetsu
 
Posts: 7249
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2009 12:17 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: chaos

Postby TTT on Thu Aug 03, 2017 12:21 pm

Back to chaos!

This is just in the aftermate of Hiroshima!

Very bad time in the history of humanity.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PwPLN0_W7I8
When
TTT
 
Posts: 1798
Joined: Mon May 18, 2009 8:38 am

Re: chaos

Postby fukasetsu on Thu Aug 03, 2017 12:46 pm

2017-08-03 13.22.39.png


Come, black-licorice-nose, outside.

No sorry I have decided to no longer get away, go to, or freeze.
Namely, I'm working on my indoor anxieties.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.
Everyone for President!
User avatar
fukasetsu
 
Posts: 7249
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2009 12:17 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: chaos

Postby Oheso on Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:12 pm

fukasetsu wrote:That is so mac if practised properly, but not for everyone, some of us have obstacles and knots overlooked and using zazen as ones only or dominant practise is often not enough or even counter-productive, the arrow must penetrate to the point of stirring a reaction at that level of the being where the emotional being is frozen in contraction. This opening if often quite dramatic and life changing.


If "using zazen" as one's dominant practice is often not enough or counter-productive (to awakening?) how does the arrow penetrate to the point of the frozen emotional being? I feel I often have a litany of "emotional issues" to review and release in the practice of zazen. stirred or shaken?

gassho, O
Last edited by Oheso on Thu Aug 03, 2017 5:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
and neither are they otherwise
User avatar
Oheso
 
Posts: 37
Joined: Tue Sep 24, 2013 2:56 pm

Re: chaos

Postby partofit22 on Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:18 pm

Grief- Loss- Sadness- I don't think anyone has cornered the market on how to deal with these, but each person can help the next, and each other, in each of these areas- But sometimes its difficult to see- Following white worked for me this morning- I'm not saying that to be glib, because it actually did help movement towards the source and through- My following white looked like calligraphy -- for whatever reason .. but it worked-

I sound high .. :lol2:

The glossing over of these (grief,loss,sadness) with happy memes that encourage a state of constant optimism seems detrimental -- at least for me- It's like too much of one thing ..
partofit22
 
Posts: 4828
Joined: Fri Oct 09, 2009 2:36 pm

Re: chaos

Postby fukasetsu on Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:41 pm

Oheso wrote:If "using zazen" as one's dominate practice is often not enough or counter-productive (to awakening?) how does the arrow penetrate to the point of the frozen emotional being? I feel I often have a litany of "emotional issues" to review and release in the practice of zazen. stirred or shaken?

gassho, O


Sorry I did not mean to imply that the "opening of the Heart" is somehow excluded from zazen or is counterproductive, I was only pointing to the pitfalls and uselessness of intellectual efforts. The "penetrating of the arrow" depends on the individual, for some it's a "sudden spiritual experience" for others it can be an event like sharing time with a loved one for months in the process of their death, or "dying together". Just two examples, not saying the "dramatic" experience is somehow negative but it is transforming.
Everyone for President!
User avatar
fukasetsu
 
Posts: 7249
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2009 12:17 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: chaos

Postby fukasetsu on Thu Aug 03, 2017 4:44 pm

partofit22 wrote:Grief- Loss- Sadness- I don't think anyone has cornered the market on how to deal with these, but each person can help the next, and each other, in each of these areas- But sometimes its difficult to see- Following white worked for me this morning- I'm not saying that to be glib, because it actually did help movement towards the source and through- My following white looked like calligraphy -- for whatever reason .. but it worked-

I sound high .. :lol2:

The glossing over of these (grief,loss,sadness) with happy memes that encourage a state of constant optimism seems detrimental -- at least for me- It's like too much of one thing ..


Yes forced/faked/artificial optimism instead of it being spontaneous or genuine can just as much be a method of surpressing, but one needs to be willing to open up these emotional conflicts, but again not through intellectual attempts. I agree it's difficult to see Teresa, and you're right about helping each other, the transformations come unexpected anyway.

ps feeling high can be an outcome of reading too many "dutch words", so caution! :lol2:
Everyone for President!
User avatar
fukasetsu
 
Posts: 7249
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2009 12:17 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: chaos

Postby macdougdoug on Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:45 pm

Oheso wrote: how does the arrow penetrate to the point of the frozen emotional being?


There is no way to let go, no switch to turn on the light.
Nothing to hold on to, no one to illuminate.
I have created the arrow and that which it needs to penetrate.

:O:
User avatar
macdougdoug
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 907
Joined: Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:11 pm
Location: France

Re: chaos

Postby desert_woodworker on Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:38 pm

Doug,

macdougdoug wrote:The desire to see must be stronger than the desire to be me.

There, I think you've gone ahead and said it. I really think that this is the root cause of strong practice. And the resistance to practice is, indeed, as you write, "the desire to be me".

I think no one has said it better, Doug. Kudos!

macdougdoug wrote:Maybe we must come to a point were we are really able to give up. Personally I had heard the teachings (krishnamurti, sufism and ch'an) all my young life without really understanding - my willingness to give up came because I felt that my life was a "failure".

On a Ch'an retreat one time, our teacher advised us all publicly in the Ch'an Hall as we began a sit late on the 2nd or 3rd day (when peoples' bodies were hurting, somewhat), to "Really let yourself DIE, this time". Whew, it sounded strange at the time. I remember doing it, though. "Letting oneself die" was really the ultimate giving-up, except none of us (except the teacher) knew what was on the other side, if anything, after the giving up, and after the dying. Wonderful!

Is there still teaching/encouraging like that, anywhere? :rbow:

:Namaste:,

--Joe
User avatar
desert_woodworker
 
Posts: 7041
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:09 am
Location: southern Arizona, USA

Re: chaos

Postby fukasetsu on Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:47 pm

desert_woodworker wrote:I think no one has said it better, Doug. Kudos!

I agree :)

Joe wrote:Is there still teaching/encouraging like that, anywhere? :rbow:
--Joe


Joe, it is said, that the death of mind is the birth of wisdom.
I remember Huifeng saying; "No death, no Zen"
Everyone for President!
User avatar
fukasetsu
 
Posts: 7249
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2009 12:17 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: chaos

Postby lobster on Fri Aug 04, 2017 1:40 am

Oheso wrote:I feel I often have a litany of "emotional issues" to review and release in the practice of zazen. stirred or shaken?

gassho, O


:tee:

As well as a review of our practice from Q
we can employ our ninja :ninja: backup techniques
when breaking up the bad guys ...

So rather than an A
http://www.aetw.org/jsp_ajikan.htm
we can stare at the man with the golden smile, 007
or some fierce embodiment ...

so our practice may be shaken but not stirred ... :lool:
User avatar
lobster
 
Posts: 445
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2012 12:01 am

Re: chaos

Postby fukasetsu on Fri Aug 04, 2017 3:28 am

Lobster "The Reiki pages"
Did you send some "nen" too?

/viewtopic.php?f=95&t=11886#p190268

thanks for bringing more flavour to the matter,
but perhaps best to talk about such things in another section then "general buddha-dharma"?

actually when I made the original post I was already doubting where to put it, I went for buddha-dharma but was alreading thinking I'd limit the conversation concerning "matters of the heart"
Everyone for President!
User avatar
fukasetsu
 
Posts: 7249
Joined: Fri Feb 06, 2009 12:17 am
Location: The Netherlands

Re: chaos

Postby lobster on Fri Aug 04, 2017 7:52 am

fukasetsu wrote:Lobster "The Reiki pages"
Did you send some "nen" too?


None nen :hugs:
User avatar
lobster
 
Posts: 445
Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2012 12:01 am

PreviousNext

Return to General Buddha Dharma

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider] and 1 guest

 
RocketTheme Joomla Templates

Who is online

In total there are 2 users online :: 1 registered, 0 hidden and 1 guest (based on users active over the past 5 minutes)
Most users ever online was 157 on Mon Sep 19, 2016 8:44 am

Users browsing this forum: Baidu [Spider] and 1 guest