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What the blimmeny flip is Samadhi!?

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Re: What the blimmeny flip is Samadhi!?

Postby Spike on Sun Jul 02, 2017 1:05 am

bokki wrote:to pee or not to pee.that is the question. Shakespeer
:)
b


! bokki, u r b-b-b-b-bad!!
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Re: What the blimmeny flip is Samadhi!?

Postby Caodemarte on Sun Jul 02, 2017 12:12 pm

Linda Anderson wrote:Happy Birthday Joe :hugs: :party: :Kite:

Welcome to Medicare! You're ahead of me in days, but I've got you beat with the years.... My BD today!

linda

Happy Belated Birthday to all!
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Re: What the blimmeny flip is Samadhi!?

Postby desert_woodworker on Sun Jul 02, 2017 8:41 pm

Happy birthday, Linda!

Another Moon-Child!

--Joe
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Re: What the blimmeny flip is Samadhi!?

Postby desert_woodworker on Sun Jul 02, 2017 8:42 pm

Meido,

Meido wrote:Apologies, fixed!

Noted. Thanks!

:heya:

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Re: What the blimmeny flip is Samadhi!?

Postby desert_woodworker on Sun Jul 02, 2017 8:48 pm

hi, Linda,

Linda Anderson wrote:hello... Joe, think about that.

I'd say it's good info which many like Gregory and Meido are pointing to.

I have no criticism of Meido's contribution at all.

But when somebody (was it Gregory?) comes suddenly into a developed thread with a passel of "definitions", as if to set everyone "straight" despite what's already long been written and digested, it generates a bad flavor.

We're not a dictionary book-club, here. We're talking about experience, and Zen Buddhist practice. No experience? Well, then, drag out the "daffynitions", and pedantry; it reflects poorly.

--Joe
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Re: What the blimmeny flip is Samadhi!?

Postby Meido on Mon Jul 03, 2017 3:58 pm

desert_woodworker wrote:But when somebody (was it Gregory?) comes suddenly into a developed thread with a passel of "definitions", as if to set everyone "straight" despite what's already long been written and digested, it generates a bad flavor.

We're not a dictionary book-club, here. We're talking about experience, and Zen Buddhist practice. No experience? Well, then, drag out the "daffynitions", and pedantry; it reflects poorly.


On the contrary, Gregory's background as an experienced practitioner is what makes his posts living words. That, along with erudition and ability to wade through source languages, is exactly more of the flavor this forum needs.

How anyone could take his contributions in this thread to be empty proliferation is beyond me. His own comments, which he simply uses quotes from classics to support and unpack, are very kind, direct pointers for practice. "Daffynitions" and "pedantry", really? Is there a problem with explanations of what "samadhi" actually refers to in Zen?

Honestly, Joe, you might rethink this. There is too much posting going on at ZFI that is off-track, not based in experience, needlessly provocative or demeaning, displaying fondness of conflict rather than exposition, and more revealing of authors' compulsive habit of posting than useful contribution. But if a time has come that posts like Gregory's are going to be derided, it may be that my own usefulness here has expired.

~ Meido
Last edited by Meido on Mon Jul 03, 2017 4:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What the blimmeny flip is Samadhi!?

Postby Caodemarte on Mon Jul 03, 2017 4:04 pm

For what it is worth I always read Gregory's posts very carefully and value them. I am thankful for them. I would appreciate more, not less.
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Re: What the blimmeny flip is Samadhi!?

Postby bokki on Mon Jul 03, 2017 4:46 pm

Sir Meido Roshi, i agree with you post 99,9%, except the last half of the last sentence.
i dont engage much with mr joe, since i have a reactive nature 2, and recognize such,
but who knows what and why, i just dont think its so important or malicious.
i read Gregorys posts with utmost concentration, and respect all posts he finds a pleasure to post, and learn much, so ill repost C
For what it is worth I always read Gregory's posts very carefully and value them. I am thankful for them. I would appreciate more, not less.

i really think your presence here is very important, so i have to disagree to the last half of the last sentence of ur post.
Please, may i offer apologies on behalf of anyones impulsive nature, and ask u to stay and post more.
sry if this sounds impertinent, but i always wait to c ur posts.
b
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Re: What the blimmeny flip is Samadhi!?

Postby Meido on Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:34 pm

bokki wrote:...i agree with you post 99,9%, except the last half of the last sentence....and ask u to stay and post more.


Bokki, I did not intend that as an announcement that I am leaving.

What I meant was, "If posts like Gregory's are not valued, there's not much I can offer that will be."

Thanks. No need for you or anyone to apologize, we all have our opinions and ideas, and it's ok to not always agree...especially in this format, where it is so easy to misinterpret.

~ Meido
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Re: What the blimmeny flip is Samadhi!?

Postby partofit22 on Mon Jul 03, 2017 9:53 pm

Why can't it just be that whatever anyone takes away from what anyone has to say is what it is? Why if when "someone" doesn't like the flavor of what "someone" says then what anyone says has no value? Don't you (general you, meaning anyone) find it difficult to not consider what someone says even if doesn't set right with ones own view?
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Re: What the blimmeny flip is Samadhi!?

Postby Spike on Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:26 pm

This discussion has nothing to do with the topic.

Meido wrote:What I meant was, "If posts like Gregory's are not valued, there's not much I can offer that will be."


Any on-the-ball moderator would have redirected this discussion to a new or other more appropriate thread. Read Gregory's post, in particular, as Meido suggested, if you want to start to learn about samadhi.
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Re: What the blimmeny flip is Samadhi!?

Postby Spike on Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:28 pm

Samadhi: Chapter 8, Zen Training, Sekida

RiNZAi Zenji's four categories are as follows:
(1 ) Man is deprived ; circumstances are not deprived.
(2) Circumstances are deprived; man is not deprived.
(3) Both man and circumstances are deprived.
(4) Neither man nor circumstances are deprived.
What do these statements mean?
The First Category "Man is deprived; circumstances are not
deprived" denotes a situation in which one's mind is absorbed in outward circumstances. A famous surgeon was once performing an
operation that required great concentration. While he was working
there was a sudden earthquake. The shocks were so severe that most
of the attendants involuntarily ran out of the room for safetv. But the
surgeon was so absorbed in the operation that he did not feel the shocks
at all. After the operation was over he was told of the earthquake, and
this was the first he knew of it. He had been completely absorbed in
his work, in a kind of samadhi.
"We experience this kind of samadhi when we are watching a football
game, reading, writing, thinking, fishing, looking at pictures, talk- ing about the weather, or even stretching out a hand to open the
door—in the moment of sitting down or stepping forward. In fact, we
are at everv moment absorbed in that moment's action or thought.
There are various degrees of absorption, various periods of duration,
and differences between voluntary and involuntary attention : the dif- 91
ZEN TRAINING
ferences, for example, between our watching a football game (involuntary
attention) and the surgeon performing his operation (voluntary
attention). But we are almost always experiencing a minor or major
condition of momentary samadhi, so to speak. When we are in this sort of samadhi we are quite forgetful of ourselves. We are not self-con- scious about our behavior, emotions, or thought. The inner man is forgotten and outer circumstances occupy our whole attention. To put
it another way: inward concern is absent; outward concern dominates.
It should be remembered that consciousness works in two different ways, one directed outward, the other inward. When consciousness
is concerned with outward matters, inward attention is forgotten, and
vice versa. There are two kinds and several phases of samadhi. We have
already drawn a distinction between absolute and positive samadhi;
Rinzai Zenji's four categories provide the basis for a further characterization
of the different phases.
Now, it is important to recognize the difference between true samadhi with self-mastery (see pages 94—95) and the false kind of
samadhi without it. In the first, even when the inner man is forgotten,
he is not forsaken. The firmly established man is getting along well
within, ready to make his appearance at any time. False samadhi lacks
this self-mastery from the outset. There can be fighting samadhi,
stealing samadhi, hating samadhi, jealousy samadhi, worrying, dreading,
upsetting samadhi, but all without the guidance of self-mastery.
These are not true samadhi as it is understood in Zen.
An animal or bird enjoys samadhi every moment. When it grazes
in a meadow it is in a grazing samadhi. When it flies up at the sound of
a gun, it is in a flying samadhi. Mellowed by the evening sun, standing
quietly for a long time motionless in the meadow, it is in what we
might call a "mellowing samadhi" —a beautiful picture and a condition
to be envied even by a human being. But the animal has no self- consciousness ; though much to be admired, the animal's samadhi is after all an animal samadhi, a lower state than that which man is capable
of. The mellow condition attained by some under the influence of
drugs like LSD, though greatly attractive to weaker characters, can be
compared to that of animal samadhi. It is a retrogression to the primi-
92
SAMADHl
tive life. Not losing self-mastery but at the same time being involved in external conditions is the real meaning of "Man is deprived; circumstances
are not deprived." In this state the inner man is simply in- active. The Second Category The second category, "Circumstances
are deprived; man is not deprived," denotes inward attention. When
we work on Mu or practice shikantaza, we concentrate inwardly and
there develops a samadhi in which a certain self-ruling spiritual power
dominates the mind. This spiritual power is the ultimate thing that we
can reach in the innermost partof our existence. We do not introspect
it, because subjectivity does not reflect itself, just as the eye does not
see itself, but we are this ultimate thing itself. It contains in itself all sources of emotion and reasoning power, and it is a fact we directly
realize in ourselves. Rinzai Zenji calls this ultimate thing "man." When this "man"
rules within us in profound samadhi, circumstances are forgotten. No
outward concern appears. This state of mind is "Circumstances are deprived; man is not deprived." It is an inward samadhi and it is what I have called absolute samadhi, because it forms the foundation
of all zazen practice. It contrasts with the outwardly directed samadhi
described in the first category, which I call positive samadhi. Positive samadhi is a samadhi in the world of conscious activity. Absolute
samadhi is a samadhi that transcends consciousness. When we simply
use the term samadhi by itself we generally refer to this absolute
samadhi.
The Third Category The third category is "Both man and cir- cumstances are deprived." A discussion of this category must be pre- ceded bv an explanation of self-consciousness. I have said that consciousness
functions in two ways, outwardly and inwardly. There is another important action exercised by consciousness : one that reflects upon its own thought. This kind of reflection must be distinguished
from general introspection, which deals with character or behavior.
When we think, "It is fine today," we are noting the weather, but we are not noting that we are thinking about the weather. The thought
93
ZEN TRAINING
about the weather mav last only a fraction of a second, and unless our next action of consciousness reflects upon it and recognizes it, our
thought about the weather is allowed to pass awav unnoticed. Self-con- sciousness appears when you notice vour thought, which immediately
precedes vour noticing it, and vou then recognize the thought as your own.
If we do not perform this noticing action we do not become aware of our thinking, and we will never know that we have been conscious at
all. We may call this action of noticing our own thoughts "the re- flecting action of consciousness," to distinguish it from general intro- spection. I take some trouble to identifv this reflecting action of consciousness
because, as will be seen, it plavs an important role in dealing
with topics in zazen. Now, when one is in absolute samadhi in its most profound phase, no reflecting action of consciousness appears. This is Rinzai's third categorv, "Both man and circumstances are deprived." In a more
shallow phase of samadhi, a reflecting action of consciousness occasionallv
breaks in and makes us aware of our samadhi. Such reflection comes and goes momentarilv, and each time momentarilv interrupts
the samadhi to a slight degree. The deeper samadhi becomes, the less frequent becomes the appearance of the reflecting action of consciousness.
Ultimatelv the time comes when no reflection appears at all. One comes to notice nothing, feel nothing, hear nothing, see nothing.
This state of mind is called "nothing." But it is not vacant emptiness. Rather is it the purest condition of our existence. It is not
reflected, and nothing is directlv known of it. This nothingness is "Both man and circumstances are deprived," the condition Hakuin Zenji
called "the Great Death." The experience of this Great Death is no
doubt not common in the ordinary practice of zazen among most Zen
students. Nevertheless, if you want to attain genuine enlightenment
and emancipation, vou must go completelv through this condition,
because enlightenment can be achieved only after once shaking off our
old habitual wav of consciousness,
Jishu-Zammai What is the difference between sleep and samadhi?
Samadhi never loses its wakefulness. "Jishu-zammai" is the expression
94
SAMADHI
that describes the quality of samadhi. Ji means "self," shu means
* 'mastery,
'
' and zammai is "samadhi, '
' so the term denotes the samadhi
of self-masterv. Jishu-zammai never loses its independence and freedom.
It is spiritual power, and it contains within itself all sources of emotion
and intellect. When vou come out of absolute samadhi, vou find vourself
full of peace and serenity, equipped with strong mental power and
dignity. You are intellectually alert and clear, emotionally pure and
sensitive. You have the exalted condition of a great artist. You can ap- preciate music, art, and the beauties of nature with greatly increased
understanding and delight. Therefore, it may be, the sound of a stone striking a bamboo trunk, or the sight of blossoms, makes a vivid impression on your mind, as is related in so many descriptions of
kensho (see chapter 9). This impression is so overwhelming that "the
whole universe comes tumbling down."
Kensho is nothing more nor less than your recognition of vour own
purified mind as it is emancipated from the delusive way of consciousness.
It is rather seldom that one notices the inner man, because the
reflecting action of consciousness is not at work in the most exalted
moments of existence. But when your mind is projected to the outside
world in the form of, say, the sound of a stone striking bamboo, or the
sight of blossoms, and the sound or the sight strikes the door of your
mind, you are then greatly moved by this impression, and the experi- ence of kensho occurs. You seem to see and hear beautiful things, but
the truth is that vou yourself have become beautiful and exalted. Kensho
is the recognition of your own purified mind in a roundabout way.
We shall deal further with kensho in later chapters.
The Fourth Category This category', "Neither man nor cir- cumstances are deprived," is the condition attained in the Zen stu- dent's maturity. He goes out into the actual world of routine and lets his mind work with no hindrance, never losing the "man" he has established
in his absolute samadhi. If we accept that there is an object in Zen practice, then it is this freedom of mind in actual living.
To put it another way : when you are mature in practicing absolute
samadhi, returning to ordinary daily life vou spontaneously combine
in yourself the first and third categories. You are active in positive
9^
ZEN TRAINING
samadhi and at the same time you are firmly rooted in jishu-zammai

the self-mastery of absolute samadhi. This is "Neither man nor cir- cumstances are deprived, '
' the highest condition of Zen maturity. True
positive samadhi achieved through Zen practice ultimately resolves
itself into this fourth category.
A man may practice zazen and make certain progress in absolute
samadhi and be successful in establishing the "man" w^ithin himself. Then a new problem will arise, that of how he can exercise this man
in his actual life in the busy world. When sitting on the cushion doing
zazen he can attain samadhi and experience the man, and can realize that the man is really his absolute self. But when he comes out into his daily routine and eats, talks, and is active in his business, he often finds he has lost the inner man. He wonders how he can manage to maintain
the man in himself in his daily life. To take another example, the Zen student may be told first to work
on Mu. At first he does not know what to do with this Mu. But in the course of practice he comes to know Mu in the pure condition of his existence that appears in his samadhi, and he realizes that Mu is his own true self. But when returning to actual life he finds that even in walking his Mu is disturbed, and he is unable to maintain the condition
he enjoyed in his samadhi. When he moves his spoon to his mouth,
or stretches his hand to something on the table, his mind is not in the same condition as in the samadhi that he experienced at sesshin time,
at the monastery or elsewhere. He would sweep, broom in hand,
earnestly trying to maintain the Mu, but alas ! things around him in- trude into his mind or attract his eyes, and he finds he is distracted. Circumstances are rampant ; man has no place to settle down in his mind. Where has the man gone who was described as "not deprived"
in the second category?
The student may now change his attitude and, returning to the state of the first category, try to be absorbed in outward circumstances.
But he finds this, too, very difficult. While sweeping, he cannot be- come sweeping itself. In other words, he is unable to forget all other
things besides sweeping, as the surgeon was absorbed in his operation.
Of course, when he sees a football game he becomes absorbed in it. But this is a case of passive, involuntary attention, in which anyone
96
SAMADHI
can be excited and shout, forgetting all other things, including the
inner man. There can be absorption in fighting, absorption in dissipation,
absorption in amorous passion, all with the inner man forsaken. The victim is at the mercy of outer circumstances. This is false or
superficial samadhi. The samadhi of the first category is not this sort of thing. The missing ingredient is inner control, jishu-zammai. Al- though the man is not on the stage, in genuine samadhi he is wakeful
inside. In short, the student who is puzzled how to retain the inner man in
his daily life—who wonders how he can embody Mu in himself in his actual life—is striving for the condition in which both the inner man and the outward concerns—man and circumstances—are not
deprived but are freely in action. In the first category man was in- active; in the fourth category man has returned to the front line. One who has attained maturity in Zen can behave freely and does not
violate the sacred law: both man and circumstances are in vigorous
activity and there is no hindrance. Only maturity in Zen will secure
this condition—the ultimate aim of Zen practice. We shall return to
this topic in the final chapter.
Ripple in still water
When there is no pebble tossed
Nor wind to blow. --R.H.
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Re: What the blimmeny flip is Samadhi!?

Postby Spike on Mon Jul 03, 2017 10:42 pm

Off topic:

It is beyond me that anyone could attack Gregory or Carol for posting their opinions. Maybe it was not a good day, maybe help is needed: please seek! PM Meido or Linda Anderson.

I said previously that this site has gone through a golden age in the midst of many years of useful and arguably enlightening service. All credit to Carol and Gregory. They are irreplaceable. They have gracefully stepped aside and allowed a temporary transition. Imo, this transition should not be from one version of zfi to another. Zfi should be allowed to pass with dignity and all due respect, sterling reputation intact. It cannot be replicated. Learn the lesson and start from scratch. Conquer your attachment.
Ripple in still water
When there is no pebble tossed
Nor wind to blow. --R.H.
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Re: What the blimmeny flip is Samadhi!?

Postby bokki on Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:45 pm

Imo, this transition should not be from one version of zfi to another. Zfi should be allowed to pass with dignity and all due respect, sterling reputation intact. It cannot be replicated. Learn the lesson and start from scratch. Conquer your attachment.

Sir, so you post here, argue with RJ a lot, and now incite us to learn a lesson and conquer r attachments. u really seem bent on closing zfi. i see 3 teachers here!, and zenies too, and hope 4 newbies. if zfi closed, i would not like it, but would not cry bout it. i just wonder, after all ur posting here, is ur position that it should close?
and i find it very interesting how threads overlap and connect, a little wonder in itself...lol
thank you Meido R, appreciated!
zfi is a little gem, please try 2 uphold it, if not plz try not to hurt it
thank u all, cant type more, read all ur posts...
THNX
b
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Re: What the blimmeny flip is Samadhi!?

Postby Spike on Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:46 am

bokki wrote: u really seem bent on closing zfi.


I believe Carol and Gregory stepped away for a reason. I respect that reason, and honor their decision. I could not possibly close zfi, as you say! My primary interest in/contribution to was the thread Teacher Sexual misconduct -Eido Tai Shimano, ZSS, and others /viewtopic.php?t=3584 . That is over, and likewise so many other aspects here have also passed. I can accept it. And I would regret if C & G saw zfi diminished in anyway, which, imo, would be inevitable without them. I said they were "irreplaceable": they were the heart and soul of this place. It is kind of them to allow a one year transition, but that does not necessitate continuation. If you take away the heart and soul, what is left?
Ripple in still water
When there is no pebble tossed
Nor wind to blow. --R.H.
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Re: What the blimmeny flip is Samadhi!?

Postby Linda Anderson on Tue Jul 04, 2017 1:43 am

Spike wrote:I said previously that this site has gone through a golden age in the midst of many years of useful and arguably enlightening service. All credit to Carol and Gregory. They are irreplaceable. They have gracefully stepped aside and allowed a temporary transition. Imo, this transition should not be from one version of zfi to another. Zfi should be allowed to pass with dignity and all due respect, sterling reputation intact. It cannot be replicated. Learn the lesson and start from scratch. Conquer your attachment.

:rbow:
Thanks Spike, that's plain speaking.



Thanks, this discussion, all 107 pages, all of which I read back in the day... remains a great collaboration of ideas and people working thru the un-workable. Just reviewing the first few pages.... the ppl who have come and gone, the the dharma, the suffering, the wisdom.... there was so much to say, and so many ways to say it. :hugs:

Those were the days, my friend.... lol, I miss PeterB, too.

Deep appreciation for Carol, Gregory, all the founders, and all the strong hearts who showed up.

For me, this thread and others is where the rubber hits the road.

Linda :daisy:
Not last night,
not this morning;
Melon flowers bloomed.
~ Bassho
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Re: What the blimmeny flip is Samadhi!?

Postby partofit22 on Tue Jul 04, 2017 6:04 am

I would also like to extend gratitude to Michaeljc who is in no small part responsible for keeping this site alive for the time being-
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Re: What the blimmeny flip is Samadhi!?

Postby desert_woodworker on Thu Jul 06, 2017 1:31 am

Stu, Meido, et al.,

Thanks!, Meido, as always.

Yes, I might rethink my post. And because my "take" is surely personal and original, or at least authentic -- though -- clearly, there's no warranty or promise that I can satisfy others' weirds.

And, now-now: no sacred Cows, ...nor Gregorys (nor Joes; nor Meidos, nor etc.).

Let's see: what was I "complaining" about? Oh, yes, "daffynitions" (a notion borrowed from MAD MAGAZINE in 1960s), and redirecting a developed thread in accord with such.

I'll quote now, in any case, from a third-party Buddhist scholar, for fun, and for fire-extinguishing: cool-off!, Summer deni-Zens. See what another feller has to say who never met any of us in this medium, nor etc. I ask you to be "fair and balanced"; at least fairly-fair, and balanced... . For a moment.

From Edward Conze (1904-1979), in Buddhist Thought In India (1962; 1967; Ann Arbor):

    "In actual fact the meaning of words is defined by their usage among an élite of insiders, who among themselves rarely experience much difficulty. It is when the message has to be conveyed to outsiders that precise 'definitions', semantic distinctions, and so on, become necessary. A soteriological doctrine like Buddhism becomes a 'philosophy' when its intellectual content is explained to outsiders. This is not a particularly rewarding task, but in this book I have undertaken it. It must never be forgotten that it involves a huge loss of substance."
p. 28, Op. cit.

Yes, well; fine business: that's what we're here for.

I hope my replies to the OP, early in the thread, were on-point -- I. e., Best!, Stu! Maybe some others could have gathered a point or two, too, from those direct and experiential declamations: One posts, and can only hope, in faith. Such is our Way. And our sway. No warranties! But we do our dangdest (and, damn the would-be 'torpedoes' ). It's for a good cause. And for a good effect.

One can only do so well. And others can only receive so well. No blame.

All is forgiven. How could it not be. Especially considering that it is, apparently, not easily otherwise. Humans are such as they are; until they are otherwise, themselves.

And so, we practice. :Namaste:

--Joe

Meido wrote:
desert_woodworker wrote:But when somebody (was it Gregory?) comes suddenly into a developed thread with a passel of "definitions", as if to set everyone "straight" despite what's already long been written and digested, it generates a bad flavor.

We're not a dictionary book-club, here. We're talking about experience, and Zen Buddhist practice. No experience? Well, then, drag out the "daffynitions", and pedantry; it reflects poorly.


On the contrary, Gregory's background as an experienced practitioner is what makes his posts living words. That, along with erudition and ability to wade through source languages, is exactly more of the flavor this forum needs.

How anyone could take his contributions in this thread to be empty proliferation is beyond me. His own comments, which he simply uses quotes from classics to support and unpack, are very kind, direct pointers for practice. "Daffynitions" and "pedantry", really? Is there a problem with explanations of what "samadhi" actually refers to in Zen?

Honestly, Joe, you might rethink this. There is too much posting going on at ZFI that is off-track, not based in experience, needlessly provocative or demeaning, displaying fondness of conflict rather than exposition, and more revealing of authors' compulsive habit of posting than useful contribution. But if a time has come that posts like Gregory's are going to be derided, it may be that my own usefulness here has expired.
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Re: What the blimmeny flip is Samadhi!?

Postby flutemaker on Thu Jul 06, 2017 5:57 pm

Meanwhile, the OP seems to has been lost amidst the argument not entirely related.

And with all due respect, with regard to the G's very informative post, my feeling however was that the OP inquired about having a taste of something -- rather than asking for a new set of theoretical explanations.

And no, none of the authorized persons here would provide any practical hits to the person "sight unseen" (as Meido has repeatedly noted). So, my sharing some personal notes of course won't align properly with them.

Anyway, to continue my earlier post, one has seriously exceed everything they believe their limits are at. I myself cannot sit in such way more than 3 - 4 times per year -- when, sometimes spontaneously, such an intensive day-sitting occur that I feel totally and completely exhausted afterwards. But this is like trying to move something extremely heavy, unmovable, with no results yet persistently, with eventually your giving up -- but then suddenly you realise that "it" is now moving -- moving on it's own -- and in such way that you cannot stop it from moving (moving together with you -- who are now resting and is fully exhausted and has stopped any sort of effort). "With no results" -- as usually you have to bite something too big for your mouth. Not only that, it is made of iron, or glass -- so you have to grow diamond teeth to find out how to make an initial "bite" into it.

Take anything for starters. Take a red color. And start "doing" it. Not just imagining it. Not just staring at something red. But this is like you inflate a bubble. Or like you "sing" it" or "voice" it. Like you generate it -- out of your own entire being. You will get nowhere in this way initially, but you have to repeat, repeat, never give up, repeat, an hour, or two or three, uninterrupted, with the totality of all your power. With no rest. Chances are, at some day, you suddenly find yourself in the midst of the entire universe filled by red, or in the great ocean of red, or everything would be just like an all-encompassing red crystal unbearably bright. I don't know, for everyone their own. You just have to repeat, repeat, repeat, and repeat...

That's my take.
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Re: What the blimmeny flip is Samadhi!?

Postby Spike on Thu Jul 06, 2017 6:01 pm

desert_woodworker wrote:Stu, Meido, et al.,

Thanks!, Meido, as always.

Yes, I might rethink my post... clearly, there's no warranty or promise that I can satisfy others' weirds...

Let's see: what was I "complaining" about? Oh, yes, "daffynitions" ..., and redirecting a developed thread in accord with such.


Calling comments from a person long seen to be distinguished in scholarship "daffy" or "weird" is at least a mild insult. Calling those comments "pedantry", ie.:

desert_woodworker wrote:Well, then, drag out the "daffynitions", and pedantry; it reflects poorly.


is also an insult. Dispute the definitions if you can; telling the commenter "it reflects poorly" is a cheap dis.

And then, my favorite:

desert_woodworker wrote:All is forgiven. ... :Namaste:--Joe


!

I don't really know what can civilly be said about this comment. Naturally, Spike being Spike, a lot else comes to mind ...


Meido wrote:Honestly, Joe, you might rethink this...


desert_woodworker wrote:Yes, I might rethink my post.


Evidently not happening!

desert_woodworker wrote:Conze excerpt: "A soteriological doctrine like Buddhism becomes a 'philosophy' when its intellectual content is explained to outsiders. This is not a particularly rewarding task, but in this book I have undertaken it. It must never be forgotten that it involves a huge loss of substance."
p. 28, Op. cit."

Yes, well; fine business: that's what we're here for.


Wait: but not Gregory?!

Meido wrote:But if a time has come that posts like Gregory's are going to be derided, it may be that my own usefulness here has expired.


Twice. But don't let him knock you over with a feather. I'm sure Gregory hasn't, either.
Ripple in still water
When there is no pebble tossed
Nor wind to blow. --R.H.
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