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There is no death bardo!

For discussion of Buddha Dharma, including teachings common to all Buddhist schools, such as the Four Noble Truths, Dependent Origination, etc., that is not specific to Mahayana or Therevada

There is no death bardo!

Postby Sam on Thu Mar 30, 2017 4:29 am

Hello all,
I recently insighted that there is in fact not a death bardo at all. The death experience itself is the experience of the sperm inseminating the egg. It is true and something humanity must move on past.

It must be understood that there can be no form of existence at all in death. Life is required for any kind of awareness or existence at all.

Given ideal conditions, the death experience happens when you get old and it's time to move on. Early death, despite this insight, is a horrible and unfortunate circumstance that we can only hope to change with a deeper understanding on the part of humanity as a whole.

I know I do not have much clout but perhaps it may be interesting to investigate that, in fact, there is no death bardo at all.
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Re: There is no death bardo!

Postby TigerDuck on Thu Mar 30, 2017 6:05 am

Are you suggesting if someone dies now, immediately the next second he will be in another mother's womb?

Through nonconceptuality, he is immovable.

[Nagarjuna]
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Re: There is no death bardo!

Postby Caodemarte on Thu Mar 30, 2017 2:13 pm

This might not be the right place to start a discussion about this topic. It is a bit like trying to start a discussion about personal insights into mountain skiing in a fishing discussion group. I doubt that many Zen practitioners are deeply concerned about bardos. Most think they have enough to do right now.

That said, Bardot is always relevant.
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Re: There is no death bardo!

Postby Gregory Wonderwheel on Sat Apr 01, 2017 8:37 pm

Sam wrote:Hello all,
I recently insighted that there is in fact not a death bardo at all. The death experience itself is the experience of the sperm inseminating the egg. It is true and something humanity must move on past.

It must be understood that there can be no form of existence at all in death. Life is required for any kind of awareness or existence at all.

Given ideal conditions, the death experience happens when you get old and it's time to move on. Early death, despite this insight, is a horrible and unfortunate circumstance that we can only hope to change with a deeper understanding on the part of humanity as a whole.

I know I do not have much clout but perhaps it may be interesting to investigate that, in fact, there is no death bardo at all.

Uhhhh, well, I beg to disagree.

Saying "there is in fact not a death bardo at all" seems like an oversimplification of a very complicated topic.
Are you saying what amounts to just an emptiness teaching, such as "all dharmas are empty"?
Or are you saying there are things that exist and things that don't exist as some form of materialism or physicalism?
Since you speak of "sperm and egg" is sounds like you are asserting a physicalist perspective, that you must know, is not Buddha Dharma perspective.

Sam wrote: Life is required for any kind of awareness or existence at all.

This is of course a one-sided assertion. By stating it in such a one-sided manner it becomes its own refutation. The truth is that life and death are required for any kind of awareness. Awareness cannot arise without the Dharma activity of bifurcation.

Sam wrote:Given ideal conditions, the death experience happens when you get old and it's time to move on.

Well that has a lot of assumptions, doesn't it? It is worth noting that saying "it's time to move on" is itself an explicit acceptance and affirmation of the bardo.

Sam wrote:Early death, despite this insight, is a horrible and unfortunate circumstance that we can only hope to change with a deeper understanding on the part of humanity as a whole.

Again, I see no basis to equate late or early death with fortunate or unfortunate death. A death in old age may be unfortunate and an early death may be fortunate. Judging a death as fortunate or unfortunate is a trick or illusion of mental conception. We can judge only as a working hypothesis based on very incomplete knowing of the whole picture or story. Such judgments should be surrounded by our own recollection of the many caveats they call for.

If we investigate deeply and thoroughly we will see that this very life is a kind of death bardo as we are right here and now travelling in the state between deaths and births.

_/|\_
Gregory
Why you do not understand is because the three carts were provisional for former times, and because the One Vehicle is true for the present time. ~ Zen Master 6th Ancestor Huineng
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Re: There is no death bardo!

Postby Gregory Wonderwheel on Sat Apr 01, 2017 8:43 pm

MODERATOR NOTE: Off topic posts about the actress Bridget Bardot have been removed.
_/|\_
Gregory
Why you do not understand is because the three carts were provisional for former times, and because the One Vehicle is true for the present time. ~ Zen Master 6th Ancestor Huineng
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Re: There is no death bardo!

Postby jundo on Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:12 am

Sam wrote:Hello all,
I recently insighted that there is in fact not a death bardo at all. The death experience itself is the experience of the sperm inseminating the egg. It is true and something humanity must move on past.

It must be understood that there can be no form of existence at all in death. Life is required for any kind of awareness or existence at all.

Given ideal conditions, the death experience happens when you get old and it's time to move on. Early death, despite this insight, is a horrible and unfortunate circumstance that we can only hope to change with a deeper understanding on the part of humanity as a whole.

I know I do not have much clout but perhaps it may be interesting to investigate that, in fact, there is no death bardo at all.


Maybe so, maybe not. I think the question of "Bardo or no Bardo" is not so important to the Practice for some of us.

So, chop wood and carry water, live gently and keep a sense of positive humor and good actions this very day. Live this life well, let future lives (if any) be.

Gassho, Jundo
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