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What if I die?

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What if I die?

Postby Sparkle on Sat Aug 27, 2016 1:54 pm

Without considering rebirth... :)X

If a student of the Dharma dies (in a conventional sense) without ever having awakened, no difference?

Awakening is only useful now.... Let's you know "you don't really die...there's no separate thing you can point to that dies"

But if you are already dead?

You haven't missed anything?
Last edited by Sparkle on Sat Aug 27, 2016 5:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What if I die?

Postby desert_woodworker on Sat Aug 27, 2016 5:00 pm

Dunno.

This too (maybe) could as well have become one of the famous 4 (= 14) questions that the Buddha refused to answer -- collectively, "the Avyakrita" -- q.v., http://www.wisdomlib.org/definition/avy ... 9Bta-vastu

And the Buddha was silent on them because he claimed that they are questions that do not conduce to Awakening (Liberation). And, because Life (in which to practice... ) is short.

To wit, they are (from the site referenced above):
------------------------------------------------------------

"(Skt.). The four avyākṛta-vastu, or ‘questions which have not been determined (by the Buddha)’ are

    whether the world is eternal, or not, or both, or neither;
    whether the world is infinite in space, or not, or both, or neither;
    whether the Tathāgata exists after death.or not, or both, or neither;
    whether the soul (ātman) is identical with the body or different from it.
These four questions were put to the Buddha on several occasions, including once by Vacchagotta in the Aggi-Vacchagotta Sutta of the Majjhima Nikāya. The Buddha made no reply because any answer he might have given would have been open to misinterpretation, given the frame of reference that the questions presuppose. In addition, he felt that to discuss speculative questions of this kind is a distraction from the task of overcoming the passions and gaining insight into the true nature of things. In this connection he taught the parable of the poisoned arrow which tells of a man wounded by an arrow who refuses to have it withdrawn until he has the answer to a number of irrelevant questions concerning the archer. Rather than waste time in futile speculation, the urgency is to withdraw the arrow and put an end to suffering".

[I also note that this is word-for-word from, The Oxford Dictionary of Buddhism (2004), by Damien Keown, p. 27]

------------------------------------------------------------

Dunno... . :blush:

>>>----------> Attend well to the richness of the present moment, though -- as, that's all we can do -- and I suppose a fellow won't be missing anything.

--Joe
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Re: What if I die?

Postby macdougdoug on Sat Aug 27, 2016 6:04 pm

Any conclusions based on our delusions are bound to be somewhat askew.

Even to say : just this, or just sit - can be too much, for everything is open to interpretation.

Questions and answers make no sense if we don't know what the words mean. What is life, what is death, what is I, what is not I?
Last edited by macdougdoug on Sat Aug 27, 2016 6:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What if I die?

Postby Sparkle on Sat Aug 27, 2016 6:11 pm

Thanks Joe,

It's just since the last 10 years of my efforts were smashed in the realisation that any "progress" was just fantasy thrown up by my ego / psyche... I've been left sort of floundering...

I'm 48 going on 49 and I'm nowhere. Worse than a beginner because of the years of stuffing my head with "stuff".

I've even been questioning my zazen.

Great doubt? Ughh... YEAH!

I think this whole thing has thrown up not how wrong my approach was... But that I HAD an approach in the first place.

I feel lost.

But I still get up and go to my meditation room 2 / 3 times a day. No point.

Thanks Joe
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Re: What if I die?

Postby macdougdoug on Sat Aug 27, 2016 6:16 pm

zazen = no goal

maybe now its finally worth sitting
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Re: What if I die?

Postby [james] on Sun Aug 28, 2016 2:35 am

Sparkle wrote:
I've even been questioning my zazen.

Great doubt? Ughh... YEAH!

I think this whole thing has thrown up not how wrong my approach was... But that I HAD an approach in the first place.

I feel lost.

But I still get up and go to my meditation room 2 / 3 times a day. No point.


Kodo Sawaki Roshi wrote:What’s zazen good for? Absolutely nothing! This “good for nothing” has got to sink into your flesh and bones until you’re truly practicing what’s good for nothing. Until then, your zazen is really good for nothing.


We may hold on to a hope that awakening, the realization of anatta, the dissolution of a self identity, will make our inevitable death a less frightening prospect. Maybe it will. Maybe not. Or we can throw our self fully and hopelessly into the already frightening possibilities of good for nothing zen practice, every moment as it is, adding nothing and leaving no thing unexamined. No more maybe.
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Re: What if I die?

Postby desert_woodworker on Sun Aug 28, 2016 4:33 am

S.,

Sparkle wrote:I'm 48 going on 49 and I'm nowhere. Worse than a beginner because of the years of stuffing my head with "stuff".

I've even been questioning my zazen.

I always bring up "physical practice" at junctures like this (and other junctures :tongueincheek: ).

A yoga class could be good to "sit-in" on. Not instead of zazen, but in addition. Sometimes sameness can be just too much of a good thing. Difference can sometimes be better, and gives everything, ...well, a new and roomier context. Doesn't that sound good?

Dogen writes, "Why travel to other dusty countries?", when what we're looking for can be found right in our own room. But traveling to a yoga class or a running track doesn't have to incur much dust. In fact, they're places to leave some dust behind. Go easy! Build up new skill, stamina, strength, and health gradually, which is the best way to keep it. Months; years.

I think one can find a synergy in practices, plural.

best,

--Joe
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Re: What if I die?

Postby Sparkle on Sun Aug 28, 2016 10:14 am

:rbow:

Thanks
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Re: What if I die?

Postby fukasetsu on Sun Aug 28, 2016 4:05 pm

You live in your head a lot Sparky :heya:

past, future, yes,no, hope,fear, if, if not, are all mental fabrications. (self-grasping)
Just breath, and be aware, all the joy's there, not in the head. :)
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Re: What if I die?

Postby Sparkle on Mon Aug 29, 2016 2:24 am

fukasetsu wrote:You live in your head a lot Sparky :heya:

past, future, yes,no, hope,fear, if, if not, are all mental fabrications. (self-grasping)
Just breath, and be aware, all the joy's there, not in the head. :)


:rbow:
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Re: What if I die?

Postby Avisitor on Tue Aug 30, 2016 11:23 pm

What if I die?

Do I get to see fuki do his dance of life ... in his PJ's?? ... LOL!!!

Speculation ... wonderful thing for insight into engineering projects
But, for Zen Buddhism??
Maybe be better to question deep those answers??

Wishing you a laugh and a jump start to get you back on the road .. home
Disclaimer: There is no intent to be offensive in my posts. None was intended and none should be interpreted as such.
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Re: What if I die?

Postby partofit22 on Wed Aug 31, 2016 4:49 pm

I think this song is a fun response to imaginative niggling about death .. :)

It's one of my all time favorites -- the entire cd-

But I think this song in particular fits this thread ..



"Dead"

I returned a bag of groceries
Accidently taken off the shelf
Before the expiration date
I came back as a bag of groceries
Accidently taken off the shelf
Before the date stamped on myself

Did a large procession wave their (Did a)
Torches as my head fell in the basket, (large pro-)
And was everybody dancing on the casket? (cession dance?)

Now it's over I'm dead and I haven't done anything that I want (now it's over)
Or, I'm still alive and there's nothing I want to do

I will never say the word
"Procrastinate" again; I'll never
See myself in the mirror with my eyes closed
I didn't apologize for
When I was eight and I made my younger brother
Have to be my personal slave

Did a large procession wave their (Did a)
Torches as my head fell in the basket, (large pro-)
And was everybody dancing on the casket? (cession dance?)

Now it's over I'm dead and I haven't done anything that I want (now it's over)
Or, I'm still alive and there's nothing I want to do

(So) So I won't
(Sit) sit at home
(And) anymore
(And) and you won't
(And) see my head in
(And) the window
(And) and I won't
(And) be around
(And) ever anymore
(And) and I'll be up there on the wall at the store

I returned a bag of groceries
Accidently taken off the shelf
Before the expiration date
I came back as a bag of groceries
Accidently taken off the shelf
Before the date stamped on myself

Did a large procession wave their (Did a)
Torches as my head fell in the basket, (large pro-)
And was everybody dancing on the casket? (cession dance?)

Now it's over I'm dead and I haven't done anything that I want (now it's over)
Or, I'm still alive and there's nothing I want to do

Now it's over I'm dead and I haven't done anything that I want (now it's over)
Or, I'm still alive and there's nothing I want to do
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Re: What if I die?

Postby babybuddha on Wed Aug 31, 2016 10:48 pm

here's an article about the meaning of the finger pointing to the moon...

http://www.awakeblogger.com/the-meaning-of-the-finger-pointing-to-the-moon

Practice is like a map that is ever changing,
don't identify yourself with the practice or death (what if's)
because it's never the same. The roads are
updated and rerouted constantly...even how you might die.

This does not mean you should stop practice.

When you are lost... starts to pave a new
path and make your own map.

In practice bring your attention to small details
and what's new around you instead.

Like the sound of a fan, smell of the air,
the posture of your shoulder blades,
position of your chin, etc.

May the moon be with you :Namaste:
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Re: What if I die?

Postby fukasetsu on Wed Aug 31, 2016 11:30 pm

babybuddha wrote:here's an article about the meaning of the finger pointing to the moon...


I wish folks didn't do that, "explaining" stuff.
Better to figure it out yourself, a lot of ppl read things and only understand intellectually.
Ah well, the perks of the internet, everyone has something to say or blog. :PP:

so many words are crazy and couldn't be bothered to read them, there's a much easier way to demonstrate it.
A whole sutra can be demonstrated in a single sentence or gesture, but a single sentence needs to be explained by that many words, it's crazy :lol2:
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Re: What if I die?

Postby fukasetsu on Wed Aug 31, 2016 11:32 pm

Avisitor wrote:What if I die?

Do I get to see fuki do his dance of life ... in his PJ's?? ... LOL!!!


Depends on the music Avi. :)
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Re: What if I die?

Postby Avisitor on Thu Sep 01, 2016 1:50 am

fukasetsu wrote:
Avisitor wrote:What if I die?

Do I get to see fuki do his dance of life ... in his PJ's?? ... LOL!!!


Depends on the music Avi. :)


Ah, now I know why there is a wink in the avatar ... LOL!!

;)
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Re: What if I die?

Postby Sparkle on Thu Sep 01, 2016 1:32 pm

fukasetsu wrote:
babybuddha wrote:here's an article about the meaning of the finger pointing to the moon...


I wish folks didn't do that, "explaining" stuff.
Better to figure it out yourself, a lot of ppl read things and only understand intellectually.
Ah well, the perks of the internet, everyone has something to say or blog. :PP:

so many words are crazy and couldn't be bothered to read them, there's a much easier way to demonstrate it.
A whole sutra can be demonstrated in a single sentence or gesture, but a single sentence needs to be explained by that many words, it's crazy :lol2:


I do believe, I've read enough :lool:
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Re: What if I die?

Postby Sparkle on Thu Sep 01, 2016 1:32 pm

fukasetsu wrote:
babybuddha wrote:here's an article about the meaning of the finger pointing to the moon...


I wish folks didn't do that, "explaining" stuff.
Better to figure it out yourself, a lot of ppl read things and only understand intellectually.
Ah well, the perks of the internet, everyone has something to say or blog. :PP:

so many words are crazy and couldn't be bothered to read them, there's a much easier way to demonstrate it.
A whole sutra can be demonstrated in a single sentence or gesture, but a single sentence needs to be explained by that many words, it's crazy :lol2:


I do believe, I've read enough :lool:
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Re: What if I die?

Postby lobster on Fri Sep 02, 2016 8:57 am

What if I die?


What if you live?

Answers to the usual morgue ... :hide:
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Re: What if I die?

Postby babybuddha on Thu Sep 08, 2016 10:37 pm

What if I die?


when your dead nothing really matters...

what if i lived? now what to do?
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