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Politics, Neoliberalism & Zen Practice

Re: Politics, Neoliberalism & Zen Practice

Postby christopher::: on Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:10 pm

Hi.. Raising people up or trying to knock them down are both thoughts grounded in the same mental perception, no? To feel upset because someone is raised up is similar to feeling excited. Both see separation and levels, me here and you there… where reality is we are all expressions of one nameless totality…

At least that's how I see the practice challenge. Zen teachers, you, me, Donald Trump, all Buddhas in drag. Sentient expressions of the Dharmakaya.

Our name, career, social role, status, race, religion are superficial levels of identity. More important than our human identifications is our relationship to the Earth and each other. We are all children of Life, of Nature. With Buddha potential, wisdom potential.
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Re: Politics, Neoliberalism & Zen Practice

Postby organizational on Tue Feb 21, 2017 5:22 pm

Then I have a question:

If we are about to accept everything that comes,

as it is been told,
What is it to be straight forwad in Zen?
When and How do we be?
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Re: Politics, Neoliberalism & Zen Practice

Postby partofit22 on Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:04 pm

christopher::: wrote:Hi.. Raising people up or trying to knock them down are both thoughts grounded in the same mental perception, no? To feel upset because someone is raised up is similar to feeling excited. Both see separation and levels, me here and you there… where reality is we are all expressions of one nameless totality…

At least that's how I see the practice challenge. Zen teachers, you, me, Donald Trump, all Buddhas in drag. Sentient expressions of the Dharmakaya.

Our name, career, social role, status, race, religion are superficial levels of identity. More important than our human identifications is our relationship to the Earth and each other. We are all children of Life, of Nature. With Buddha potential, wisdom potential.


One doesn't need to agree with, or become upset with, anyone when one gets raised up or gets taken down- Both can lead to disappointment- So perhaps there's benefit to seeing people as equals by keeping the feet on the ground- Student, teacher, used car dealer, no matter- Jesus was raised up and taken down in one fell swoop yet his teachings survived mankinds inclination to raise up and take down-
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Re: Politics, Neoliberalism & Zen Practice

Postby lobster on Tue Feb 21, 2017 7:47 pm

“The asshole doesn’t need to be ashamed of being the asshole. The feet don’t have any reason to go on strike just because they’re only feet. The head isn’t the most important of all, and the navel doesn’t need to imagine he’s the father of all things. It’s strange though that people look at the president as an especially important person. The nose can’t replace the eyes, and the mouth can’t replace the ears. Everything has its own identity, which is unsurpassable in the whole universe.”. - Donald Trump (on fake news)
http://thepowerofideas.ideapod.com/20-enlightening-quotes-japanese-zen-master-will-change-perspective-life/

:hide:

Obviously the best approach is to know what to do. Jokes welcome :tee:
I find my innate calm in the face of ignorance returns rapidly enough ... :hugs:
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Re: Politics, Neoliberalism & Zen Practice

Postby partofit22 on Tue Feb 21, 2017 9:29 pm

lobster wrote:“The asshole doesn’t need to be ashamed of being the asshole. The feet don’t have any reason to go on strike just because they’re only feet. The head isn’t the most important of all, and the navel doesn’t need to imagine he’s the father of all things. It’s strange though that people look at the president as an especially important person. The nose can’t replace the eyes, and the mouth can’t replace the ears. Everything has its own identity, which is unsurpassable in the whole universe.”. - Donald Trump (on fake news)
http://thepowerofideas.ideapod.com/20-enlightening-quotes-japanese-zen-master-will-change-perspective-life/

:hide:

Obviously the best approach is to know what to do. Jokes welcome :tee:
I find my innate calm in the face of ignorance returns rapidly enough ... :hugs:


“The asshole doesn’t need to be ashamed of being the asshole. The feet don’t have any reason to go on strike just because they’re only feet. The head isn’t the most important of all, and the navel doesn’t need to imagine he’s the father of all things. It’s strange though that people look at the prime minister as an especially important person. The nose can’t replace the eyes, and the mouth can’t replace the ears. Everything has its own identity, which is unsurpassable in the whole universe.”


That ^ is the quote- No added claws necessary .. :)
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Re: Politics, Neoliberalism & Zen Practice

Postby lobster on Wed Feb 22, 2017 10:30 am

I have been studying the rise of conspiracy thinking for a while now ... :heya:
Just after 9/11 I posted my page to counter the incredulous news that 30% of USA citizens believed the moon landings were fake news/propoganda.

I took the most incredible piece of fiction I could and tried to make it plausible :>.>:
http://web.archive.org/web/20041214232853/http://pages.britishlibrary.net/lobster/et/

To my amazement, in part due to the timing it was taken seriously by certain communities. It now seems that this methodology is being adopted as a way of by passing critical thinking ... Maybe it has always been present in the human psyche ...

While creating this site I had to partially believe what I was writing. Or at least get into that mind set. That was scary.

However it is also suitable for ninjas :ninja:

Now that a Living Buddha is in the White Housing, I feel it is important to encourage the promised spread of metta.

- More love for everyone, especially the untaxable :dance:
- Solutions to everything :dance:
- The promotion of free thinking, such as dinosaurs ridden by humans :dance:
- The American Dream as reality :dance:

:p:
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Re: Politics, Neoliberalism & Zen Practice

Postby fukasetsu on Thu Feb 23, 2017 2:45 am

christopher::: wrote:Do you have any interest in Zen or Buddhist practice? I don't understand the vomit bag comment. Pema Chödrön wrote this, on the Lion's Roar page Joe linked to:

"During difficult times like this, I’m feeling that the most important thing is our love for each other and remembering to express that and avoid the temptation to get caught in negative and aggressive thinking. Instead of polarizing, this is a chance to stay with the groundlessness."

This is what Buddhist practice is all about.


You've known me since all the way back since we first posted on E-Sangha so asking me if I have any interest in Zen or Buddhist practise is just silly and frankly disrespectful to our relationship, in contrary to any Pema Chodron or any teachers quote which are merely online words which we've heared/read a million times whether on Lion's roar or wherever.

I know very well what Buddhist practise is about, much better then if I would quote teachers words and telling others what it is about.

Point is those Buddhist quotes on Lions roar or whatever are vomit bag material because it's just general Buddhist poopy which only makes sense to ppl who already sniff their own Buddhist farts, same for light workers, or Trump lovers, me I'm beyond any such fixations of duality, as any true Zen practisioner should be.

As usual Teresa read between the lines a bit or perhaps better said could see my post (or anyone's) outside of her own cherished notions or views.

But still reading again "and more provide commentary and words of comfort. We’ll be updating with more reactions as they come in." is just sickening to me, sorry. If you don't see what's wrong with that comment, then we're from different planets all together.
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Re: Politics, Neoliberalism & Zen Practice

Postby Michaeljc on Thu Feb 23, 2017 7:12 am

Don't show your composition to someone that is not musical


Source: I don't know :)
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Re: Politics, Neoliberalism & Zen Practice

Postby lobster on Thu Feb 23, 2017 9:41 am

our imagined 'what is happening' is not real


So how to live in the real world? Return to the moment. So simple.

Ah well ... prefer imaginary excitement? Here you go ...

:spin: :Kite:
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Re: Politics, Neoliberalism & Zen Practice

Postby Nothing on Thu Feb 23, 2017 12:35 pm

The comments from the teachers to me sound like they are written by some new age "gurus" or zazen instructors in the best scenario( no offense to any instructors), and not by genuine teachers or true practitioners. I could be wrong , but any true practitioner would not need to be comforted, at least not in that way with those generic commentaries.

"After Donald Trump's stunning upset" - From the moment I read that line I knew that the rest of the article will be a genuine bullshit. :)

People are not rebelling or protesting for much bigger issues, now Trump won and they make big deal out it, protesting, want to move out of the country to Canada, come on, that is so infantile.

Most of the US citizens really have no idea how privileged they are. ;)


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Re: Politics, Neoliberalism & Zen Practice

Postby partofit22 on Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:33 pm

Nothing wrote:The comments from the teachers to me sound like they are written by some new age "gurus" or zazen instructors in the best scenario( no offense to any instructors), and not by genuine teachers or true practitioners. I could be wrong , but any true practitioner would not need to be comforted, at least not in that way with those generic commentaries.

"After Donald Trump's stunning upset" - From the moment I read that line I knew that the rest of the article will be a genuine bullshit. :)

People are not rebelling or protesting for much bigger issues, now Trump won and they make big deal out it, protesting, want to move out of the country to Canada, come on, that is so infantile.

Most of the US citizens really have no idea how privileged they are. ;)


Victor


That's true, Victor- The US is beautiful- From it's most remote locations to its busiest city streets- But these things have become ever increasingly more difficult to enjoy due to the much bigger issues you mention -- that began as small ones and then grew into what's become so huge and cumbersome- In my short time alive I've witnessed healthcare go from being about healing to damage control -- go from being about treating people to investing in facilities- I think healthcare started it's downward spiral when the emphasis shifted from people to facilities- As the shift was taking place from people to facilities doctors left their private practices and moved to the bigger facilities- And once in those facilities the doctors have to follow facility protocol -- facility protocol is geared toward making money, not healing people-

Americans are encouraged to have a primary care physician and that physician is expected by the facilities to see X number of patients -- or more when they can be "squeezed in"- As a result, doctors rush through appointments with patients- If a doctor becomes too busy? He or she is assigned a nurse practitioner who will meet with patients should the patient agree- There's that and the fact that doctors frequently move from one facility to the next- When they do, the patient receives a letter in the mail which contains a list of other doctors they may wish to switch to-

And yet .. we're encouraged to establish a primary care physician- :)

And ..you know something is up with the system in place when doctors holler at patients-
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Re: Politics, Neoliberalism & Zen Practice

Postby Nothing on Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:25 pm

partofit22 wrote:
Nothing wrote:The comments from the teachers to me sound like they are written by some new age "gurus" or zazen instructors in the best scenario( no offense to any instructors), and not by genuine teachers or true practitioners. I could be wrong , but any true practitioner would not need to be comforted, at least not in that way with those generic commentaries.

"After Donald Trump's stunning upset" - From the moment I read that line I knew that the rest of the article will be a genuine bullshit. :)

People are not rebelling or protesting for much bigger issues, now Trump won and they make big deal out it, protesting, want to move out of the country to Canada, come on, that is so infantile.

Most of the US citizens really have no idea how privileged they are. ;)


Victor


That's true, Victor- The US is beautiful- From it's most remote locations to its busiest city streets- But these things have become ever increasingly more difficult to enjoy due to the much bigger issues you mention -- that began as small ones and then grew into what's become so huge and cumbersome- In my short time alive I've witnessed healthcare go from being about healing to damage control -- go from being about treating people to investing in facilities- I think healthcare started it's downward spiral when the emphasis shifted from people to facilities- As the shift was taking place from people to facilities doctors left their private practices and moved to the bigger facilities- And once in those facilities the doctors have to follow facility protocol -- facility protocol is geared toward making money, not healing people-

Americans are encouraged to have a primary care physician and that physician is expected by the facilities to see X number of patients -- or more when they can be "squeezed in"- As a result, doctors rush through appointments with patients- If a doctor becomes too busy? He or she is assigned a nurse practitioner who will meet with patients should the patient agree- There's that and the fact that doctors frequently move from one facility to the next- When they do, the patient receives a letter in the mail which contains a list of other doctors they may wish to switch to-

And yet .. we're encouraged to establish a primary care physician- :)

And ..you know something is up with the system in place when doctors holler at patients-


Thanks for your reply Teresa.

By privileged I did not mean only the beauty of USA, it's nature, the cities, the infrastructure, but also privileged in way that US citizens have lot of opportunities both in USA and out of it, for earning a livelihood, studying in USA or abroad, traveling in and out, nearby zen centers ;) ... etc.

I aware about the problems of the US health system,and I share your view, even shitty country like the one from where I come from has better health system, which is mostly free, but I do not know how effective it is, the opinions are divided, I do not know cause I do not go to doctor, except those regular yearly checks from work, but that "squeezing" appointments are problem here too

Beside the health system, at least for me, the biggest issue are the spendings on warfare,developing new weapons,military operations bombings of the "enemies" and that american righteous attitude and the savior complex that goes with all that sick game and I really do not think that will change anytime soon no matter who is it in the white house or the political ideology in place and very few raise their voices regarding that.

But still, US is a very prosperous country overall and has many positive sides, although I would argue that part of that prosperity is because there are other countries which are not prosperous and are kept that way :) I am simplifying things, but this is a basic economy law, money are limited at any given moment, so for one to earn 4000 dollars a month, other should earn 100 dollars a month for example, at least in a monetary economy :)

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Re: Politics, Neoliberalism & Zen Practice

Postby partofit22 on Fri Feb 24, 2017 2:54 pm

Nothing wrote:
partofit22 wrote:
Nothing wrote:The comments from the teachers to me sound like they are written by some new age "gurus" or zazen instructors in the best scenario( no offense to any instructors), and not by genuine teachers or true practitioners. I could be wrong , but any true practitioner would not need to be comforted, at least not in that way with those generic commentaries.

"After Donald Trump's stunning upset" - From the moment I read that line I knew that the rest of the article will be a genuine bullshit. :)

People are not rebelling or protesting for much bigger issues, now Trump won and they make big deal out it, protesting, want to move out of the country to Canada, come on, that is so infantile.

Most of the US citizens really have no idea how privileged they are. ;)


Victor


That's true, Victor- The US is beautiful- From it's most remote locations to its busiest city streets- But these things have become ever increasingly more difficult to enjoy due to the much bigger issues you mention -- that began as small ones and then grew into what's become so huge and cumbersome- In my short time alive I've witnessed healthcare go from being about healing to damage control -- go from being about treating people to investing in facilities- I think healthcare started it's downward spiral when the emphasis shifted from people to facilities- As the shift was taking place from people to facilities doctors left their private practices and moved to the bigger facilities- And once in those facilities the doctors have to follow facility protocol -- facility protocol is geared toward making money, not healing people-

Americans are encouraged to have a primary care physician and that physician is expected by the facilities to see X number of patients -- or more when they can be "squeezed in"- As a result, doctors rush through appointments with patients- If a doctor becomes too busy? He or she is assigned a nurse practitioner who will meet with patients should the patient agree- There's that and the fact that doctors frequently move from one facility to the next- When they do, the patient receives a letter in the mail which contains a list of other doctors they may wish to switch to-

And yet .. we're encouraged to establish a primary care physician- :)

And ..you know something is up with the system in place when doctors holler at patients-


Thanks for your reply Teresa.

By privileged I did not mean only the beauty of USA, it's nature, the cities, the infrastructure, but also privileged in way that US citizens have lot of opportunities both in USA and out of it, for earning a livelihood, studying in USA or abroad, traveling in and out, nearby zen centers ;) ... etc.

I aware about the problems of the US health system,and I share your view, even shitty country like the one from where I come from has better health system, which is mostly free, but I do not know how effective it is, the opinions are divided, I do not know cause I do not go to doctor, except those regular yearly checks from work, but that "squeezing" appointments are problem here too

Beside the health system, at least for me, the biggest issue are the spendings on warfare,developing new weapons,military operations bombings of the "enemies" and that american righteous attitude and the savior complex that goes with all that sick game and I really do not think that will change anytime soon no matter who is it in the white house or the political ideology in place and very few raise their voices regarding that.

But still, US is a very prosperous country overall and has many positive sides, although I would argue that part of that prosperity is because there are other countries which are not prosperous and are kept that way :) I am simplifying things, but this is a basic economy law, money are limited at any given moment, so for one to earn 4000 dollars a month, other should earn 100 dollars a month for example, at least in a monetary economy :)

Victor


It's no different "within" the US itself, Victor- It's exactly as you describe -- and might be why the teachers/gurus comments sounded to you as though they were spoken from a place of the best case scenarios-
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Re: Politics, Neoliberalism & Zen Practice

Postby lobster on Sat Feb 25, 2017 8:47 am

Isn't there a zen story about how far a flag gets when flapping right and left?

There are I believe engaged and semi enraged Buddhists who have been getting involved in life changing for those concerned.
http://zenpeacemakers.org/street-retreats-2/

Bravo guys! Some of us lessen and some are a lesson in entering the market place, which as ever is transient ... :)X
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Re: Politics, Neoliberalism & Zen Practice

Postby partofit22 on Wed Mar 01, 2017 2:55 pm

On occasion I still wonder why my hair blew forward while riding on the back of a motorcycle at 70mph -- I still don't know- But do know that when fear arises it can blow ones mind into hell realms which exit out the mouth, the tips of fingers and look and sound like doom and gloom-
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Re: Politics, Neoliberalism & Zen Practice

Postby [james] on Thu Mar 02, 2017 2:27 am

partofit22 wrote:On occasion I still wonder why my hair blew forward while riding on the back of a motorcycle at 70mph -- I still don't know


Wind eddy, maybe.
Or if Eddy was at the front,
then, Eddy's eddy.
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Re: Politics, Neoliberalism & Zen Practice

Postby Gregory Wonderwheel on Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:06 am

organizational wrote:Then I have a question:

If we are about to accept everything that comes,

as it is been told,
What is it to be straight forwad in Zen?
When and How do we be?


Who says "accept" everything that comes? I see that as an upside down view. In relating to "what comes" we should neither accept nor reject. By the time we have identified "what comes" we have already received it. So we have no choice but to receive what comes, but we don't have any necessity to accept it, and trying to reject it just keeps us looking in the rear view mirror.
We "should" just deal with what we receive, i.e, the what comes, which of course is another way of saying Tathagata. This is being straightforward.
What comes is not from "outside" nor is it from "inside." Or in other words, saying that what comes is either inside or outside is just a very subtle way of accepting or rejecting, creating the contrivance of distance in time and space. Such contrivances are the upside down of being straightforward.
_/|\_
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Re: Politics, Neoliberalism & Zen Practice

Postby Gregory Wonderwheel on Thu Mar 02, 2017 3:12 am

Nothing wrote:Most of the US citizens really have no idea how privileged they are. ;)
Victor


Victor, are you a USA citizen? If yes, then why not say "how privileged we are"? If not a USA citizen, then are you really wanting to dish dirt on what you consider the problems of citizens of other nations are without telling us where you are a citizen and being vulnerable to being told how you don't know how privileged your nation's citizens are?

_/|\_
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Re: Politics, Neoliberalism & Zen Practice

Postby Nothing on Thu Mar 02, 2017 9:55 am

Gregory Wonderwheel wrote:
Nothing wrote:Most of the US citizens really have no idea how privileged they are. ;)
Victor


Victor, are you a USA citizen? If yes, then why not say "how privileged we are"? If not a USA citizen, then are you really wanting to dish dirt on what you consider the problems of citizens of other nations are without telling us where you are a citizen and being vulnerable to being told how you don't know how privileged your nation's citizens are?

_/|\_
Gregory


No Gregory, I am not a US citizen. On the profile is written the place of residence. Just to be clear, I do not identify with any nation and what was said was not attack on the US citizens or the country if it was understood that way; actually I appreciate the diverse culture of USA and have relatives living there. By privileged I was referring mostly about the socioeconomic factors in the country. If you are interested in explanation why I think that you can send a PM, since that discussion will be out of topic.

Gassho
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Re: Politics, Neoliberalism & Zen Practice

Postby organizational on Thu Mar 02, 2017 11:30 am

Gregory Wonderwheel wrote:
organizational wrote:Then I have a question:

If we are about to accept everything that comes,

as it is been told,
What is it to be straight forwad in Zen?
When and How do we be?


Who says "accept" everything that comes? I see that as an upside down view. In relating to "what comes" we should neither accept nor reject. By the time we have identified "what comes" we have already received it. So we have no choice but to receive what comes, but we don't have any necessity to accept it, and trying to reject it just keeps us looking in the rear view mirror.
We "should" just deal with what we receive, i.e, the what comes, which of course is another way of saying Tathagata. This is being straightforward.
What comes is not from "outside" nor is it from "inside." Or in other words, saying that what comes is either inside or outside is just a very subtle way of accepting or rejecting, creating the contrivance of distance in time and space. Such contrivances are the upside down of being straightforward.
_/|\_
Gregory




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