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Europe's migrant crisis

Re: Europe's migrant crisis

Postby Michaeljc on Sat Sep 26, 2015 9:07 pm

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Re: Europe's migrant crisis

Postby Samsaric Spiral on Sat Sep 26, 2015 9:42 pm

Michaeljc wrote:Reference has been made to migrants from Iran on a number of occasions within a range of media. Keep following and am sure it will come up again.


Give me the sources. You're evading my request.

Iranians will be a minority


I don't see how it ties in to the refugee crisis. You're trying to imply a large group of well-off Iranians are using it to their advantage. Give me your sources because this sounds like it's teetering on the edge of right-wing paranoia.
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Re: Europe's migrant crisis

Postby desert_woodworker on Sat Sep 26, 2015 9:52 pm

Michael,

what the most vulnerable as a result of war look like...

Yes... .

I heard a UN person yesterday saying that a crucial thing to maintain is schooling. Even if proper schools cannot be maintained in the war-zone(s), then schooling in private houses is immensely valuable -- within multiple dimensions -- to keep up. It maintains a thread of "normalcy", provides a "buffer", a schedule, and a structure, and prevents total traumatizing of youngsters, and keeps them from becoming a "lost generation" (as has happened all too often in places).

Evidently, there are a few years early in each life when education forms the firmest foundation for future development and living. And if that "window" for education is closed, or lost, it's really hard to make up for this later. Schooling is hard to do in a war-zone, yes!, but evidently crucial to kids.

The UN worker lamented that there has not been sufficient funding for this. Well, I'm not even sure if any funds have been dedicated to it.

--Joe
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Re: Europe's migrant crisis

Postby Michaeljc on Sat Sep 26, 2015 10:33 pm

Give me your sources because this sounds like it's tethering on right-wing paranoia.


I get such a guts full of this 'Right Wing:Left Wing' bullshit

It is the scourge of the world

The moment anyone opens their mouth they are categorised as promoting a personal political agenda based on fallacy

I am trying here to focus people on the truly vulnerable and affected

Yet, I am branded as being among the extreme right wing racists :blush:

Iranians will be among those arriving at Europe's borders. This is my claim. Take it or leave it. I don't care. Do you own research

Think independently!
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Re: Europe's migrant crisis

Postby Samsaric Spiral on Sat Sep 26, 2015 10:52 pm

I'd have no issue if you gave me sources. You need to substantiate the bold.

Samsaric Spiral wrote:
Michaeljc wrote:Reference has been made to migrants from Iran on a number of occasions within a range of media. Keep following and am sure it will come up again.


Give me the sources. You're evading my request.

Iranians will be a minority


I don't see how it ties in to the refugee crisis. You're trying to imply a large group of well-off Iranians are using it to their advantage.


---

Michaeljc wrote:Iranians will be among those arriving at Europe's borders. This is my claim. Take it or leave it. I don't care. Do you own research


Do you realize how offensive this sounds without giving sources?

If you don't care and won't provide sources to substantiate your claims, then shut up.
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Re: Europe's migrant crisis

Postby Michaeljc on Sat Sep 26, 2015 11:32 pm

In the dog-whistle rhetoric of Hammond and Theresa May, the archetypal contemporary migrant in Europe is from Africa. But again, that’s not true. This year, according to UN figures, 50% alone are from two non-African countries: Syria (38%) and Afghanistan (12%). When migrants from Pakistan, Iraq and Iran are added into the equation, it becomes clear that the number of African migrants is significantly less than half. Even so, as discussed above, many of them – especially those from Eritrea, Darfur, and Somalia – have legitimate claims to refugee status. Source: The guardian August 5 2015


Here you go SS. Its from a 'Left Wing' newspaper so it must be true. I can give a quote from the Telegraph but as it is 'Right Wing" it must be false
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Re: Europe's migrant crisis

Postby Samsaric Spiral on Sat Sep 26, 2015 11:40 pm

Michaeljc wrote:
In the dog-whistle rhetoric of Hammond and Theresa May, the archetypal contemporary migrant in Europe is from Africa. But again, that’s not true. This year, according to UN figures, 50% alone are from two non-African countries: Syria (38%) and Afghanistan (12%). When migrants from Pakistan, Iraq and Iran are added into the equation, it becomes clear that the number of African migrants is significantly less than half. Even so, as discussed above, many of them – especially those from Eritrea, Darfur, and Somalia – have legitimate claims to refugee status. Source: The guardian August 5 2015


Here you go SS. Its from a 'Left Wing' newspaper so it must be true. I can give a quote from the Telegraph but as it is 'Right Wing" it must be false


That doesn't really substantiate what you're saying though. It could be anywhere from 50 to x amount of Persians taking advantage of the refugee crisis.

Why would "Iranians.. be among those arriving at Europe's borders" when sanctions were just lifted and Iran is forming stronger economic relationship with China?

Besides some Ba'hais, there are very few Iranian refugees. Most are immigrants for more economic incentive.

Go ahead and give me the telegraph quote.
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Re: Europe's migrant crisis

Postby Michaeljc on Sat Sep 26, 2015 11:49 pm

This topic was instigated to encourage logical and rational discussion from a neutral perspective

I did this as I regard the topic one of them most important cases of history in the making occurring in real time

I have decided to no longer respond to posts on this topic that hide behind a nom de plume

There is a direct correlation between attacks and writers who don't have enough courage of conviction to publish their name and location

m
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Re: Europe's migrant crisis

Postby Samsaric Spiral on Sat Sep 26, 2015 11:53 pm

Michaeljc wrote:This topic was instigated to encourage logical and rational discussion from a neutral perspective

I did this as I regard the topic one of them most important cases of history in the making occurring in real time

I have decided to no longer respond to posts on this topic that hide behind a nom de plume

There is a direct correlation between attacks and writers who don't have enough courage of conviction to publish their name and location

m


I don't know how to respond to this in a polite manner, but I'll restrain the urge to say what I really think about your snarky, cocky attitude. I didn't do anything wrong besides ask for sources for a specific claim before you went on a tangent, and your source didn't really substantiate your extravagant claim either... I never attacked you besides saying your hysteria towards me asking for sources was uncalled for.

Also, I meant to say "teetering on the edge of". "Teetering" by itself doesn't make sense.
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Re: Europe's migrant crisis

Postby desert_woodworker on Sun Sep 27, 2015 12:42 am

SS,

Samsaric Spiral wrote:Also, I meant to say "tethering on the edge of". "Tethering" by itself doesn't make sense.

Maybe "teetering"? Just asking. It's a good, 25-cent word, commonly associated with edges.

--Joe
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Re: Europe's migrant crisis

Postby Samsaric Spiral on Sun Sep 27, 2015 12:51 am

desert_woodworker wrote:SS,

Samsaric Spiral wrote:Also, I meant to say "tethering on the edge of". "Tethering" by itself doesn't make sense.

Maybe "teetering"? Just asking. It's a good, 25-cent word, commonly associated with edges.

--Joe


Thank you. I got the word usage messed up. It is always a good time to learn regardless of choosing to disclose one's name and location! Too bad Michaeljc has closed his mind to the possibility of doubt and learning based off such an arbitrary prerequisite!

Who can take such a divisive and convicted attitude seriously on a Zen forum which is about actualizing Hakuin's "Great Doubt"?

Not me. Obviously, someone has abandoned their formless hwadu in favor of blind nationalism and parochialism. Such a person is called a "fake". I don't even think a million kalpas of Zazen can help him.
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Re: Europe's migrant crisis

Postby [james] on Sun Sep 27, 2015 3:05 am

Samsaric Spiral wrote:I don't even think a million kalpas of Zazen can help him.


May all beings be liberated.
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Re: Europe's migrant crisis

Postby Samsaric Spiral on Sun Sep 27, 2015 8:14 pm

I find it very odd and suspicious that the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) was recently signed during this crisis.

Neoliberalism is at the root of the problem.
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Re: Europe's migrant crisis

Postby Humbaba on Mon Sep 28, 2015 12:03 pm

Samsaric Spiral wrote:I find it very odd and suspicious that the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP) was recently signed during this crisis.

It wasn't signed and there is good hope that it will be aborted.

I'm not against free trade. But the TTIP, like the Trans-Pacific Partnership, is a bilateral trade agreement aimed at isolating China and at weakening the influence developing countries have under the multilateral trade agreements of the WTO.

TTIP is also used to undermine health and environmental standards (e.g., EDCs, etc.) and national sovereignty. The private arbitration courts provided under TTIP will allow multinational corporation to sue the shi* out off national governments.
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Re: Europe's migrant crisis

Postby Humbaba on Mon Sep 28, 2015 12:24 pm

Michaeljc wrote:This topic was instigated to encourage logical and rational discussion from a neutral perspective

I did this as I regard the topic one of them most important cases of history in the making occurring in real time

I have decided to no longer respond to posts on this topic that hide behind a nom de plume

There is a direct correlation between attacks and writers who don't have enough courage of conviction to publish their name and location

Michael,

In all friendship and with the greatest amount of goodwill, you have started this thread by giving it a wrong bias. This is not Europe's refugee crisis. The causes are proxy wars and the dimensions are global, it just so happens that Europe has to pay the price for the wars of others.

You have used this thread to repeatedly cast doubts on the intentions of forum members and on the refugees by making oblique insinuations that are not born out by the facts.

You have persistently refused to talk about the causes for war refugees and denigrated the best efforts at a solution while not making any positive contribution yourself.

If you cannot tolerate opinions different from your own, you are ill-advised to seek public debate. I'm only a newcomer, but I don't believe that the aim of this forum is to propagate your personal views. To suggest that the whole thread should be deleted betrays a shocking disrespect for your fellow forum members who have taken time and effort to contribute to this thread.
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Re: Europe's migrant crisis

Postby Humbaba on Mon Sep 28, 2015 12:36 pm

Afghans: the next refugee wave to hit Europe.

German immigration officials estimate that about 100,000 Afghans are leaving their country every month. 70,000 have already arrived in Europe. Among those who illegally enter Europe are Nato interpreters whose lives will be in danger once foreign troops leave the country and the Taliban will once again rule Afghanistan. Likewise, millions of Afghans who in one way or other have cooperated with the occupational forces will be in danger.

12 years of war, thousands of dead and now millions of refugees. All of this because of a single knee-jerking reaction by G. W. Bush.
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Re: Europe's migrant crisis

Postby Humbaba on Mon Sep 28, 2015 1:35 pm

This is compulsory reading for all who believe that the Muslim refugees fleeing from terror are the cause of the problem.

The rulers of Saudi Arabia have sponsored terrorism and extremism for decades with the full knowledge and backing or their friends at the steering wheels of Western governments.

The evil empire of Saudi Arabia is the West’s real enemy
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Re: Europe's migrant crisis

Postby fukasetsu on Mon Sep 28, 2015 4:09 pm

Humbaba wrote:All of this because of a single knee-jerking reaction by G. W. Bush.


Impossible, the guy doesn't even know how to open a door!

But in all seriousness, as I mentioned before, everything creates everything, are you gonna blaim one so called person or event in particular?
How convenient!
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Re: Europe's migrant crisis

Postby Humbaba on Mon Sep 28, 2015 9:07 pm

fukasetsu wrote:everything creates everything,

In the political arena, the right decisions need to be taken. The decision to go to war was wrong. That was clear at the time. The war didn't even have a strategic or economic objective. It was totally senseless.

We may of course philosophize about concepts such as dependent arising and the like, but I think it should not be used to befuddle the mind in a question of peace and war. The war was not inevitable.

are you gonna blaim one so called person or event in particular? How convenient!

Yes, it is convenient. I feel that most Americans prefer to forget that they supported the war and like to blame the government or Bush. I didn't mention it to preempt further knee-jerking, but we can never prevent it completely, it appears.

As we are talking, the Taliban are attacking the city of Kunduz in the North of Afghanistan. They have already captured the military base vacated by Nato forces two years ago. They seem to meet very little resistance in capturing the city and most villagers in the surroundings support the Taliban.

The foreigners are being flown out off Kunduz into safety. All the Afghans who have cooperated with the foreign occupiers now have to flee across land in the hope of reaching Europe.
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Re: Europe's migrant crisis

Postby Humbaba on Wed Sep 30, 2015 12:21 pm

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