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Reading Red Pine's Lankavatara Sutra

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Re: Reading Red Pine's Lankavatara Sutra

Postby Pedestrian on Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:35 pm

Norman Fischer is such a swell, affable guide. I got 1/3 of the way into the first (90m) podcast this morning, and his situating the Lanka in relation to the Diamond, Heart, and Platform sutras was very useful indeed.
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Re: Reading Red Pine's Lankavatara Sutra

Postby Pedestrian on Fri Feb 15, 2013 4:50 pm

Ed: :lol2:

Did everyone read all of Section III? It's the list of answers that Buddha gives to Mahamati's questions in II. I was going to skip right over it, was even making juvenile, self-humoring jokes about it ("A statement about Justin Bieber is about no Justin Bieber," etc.). But then I thought I'd just give it a go, and it was really powerful. I would read one or two that would just seem obvious, and then would hit one that hit back: "A statement about reasoning is about no reasoning" and "A statement about dust motes is about no dust motes" stand out.
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Re: Reading Red Pine's Lankavatara Sutra

Postby Pedestrian on Wed Feb 27, 2013 9:34 pm

I've been pouring over sections IV-XXVI (pages 64-105 in the Red Pine book), along with the corresponding podcasts by Norman Fischer et al. Like a lot of sutra reading, it leaves me speechless more often than not, but I put a few words together based on notes along the way....

I keep coming back to Fischer's insistence that we read this sutra in relation to the imperative of personal realization, and in the service of the end of suffering. I can get caught up in the eight thises and ten thats, stuck in one or another taxonomy, but staying focused on the four noble truths and personal realization has helped a lot.

That's particularly useful in light of the nihilism that can creep in around the Lanka for me. When Buddha says (section VII p 70), "[S]tatements about the existence then nonexistence of something contain this defect: they render whatever we might do as empty and meaningless," I think, oh, yeah, that's right: what bodhisattvas do seeks to end suffering. So we don't want to end at assertions about existence or non-existence; that's a dead end. Or, as Buddha says in section XVII (page 91) about "the eternal and inconvceivable's own causal attribute," "As this distracts people from the attainment of the personal realization of the realm of buddha knowledge, it is not worth talking about" -- to which Red Pine adds, in a footnote, "Amen."

Along with repository or alaya consciousness, I've been confused by but fascinated with habit-energy, the Sanskrit for which is vasana. Red Pine notes in the glossary that "this is another name for karma, but karma conceived in terms of how it works in the realm of consciousness." Habit-energy seems a useful means to understand my own practice, specifically in regard to what the Buddha says about zazen/dhyana:

Those practitioners who enter dhyana or samadhi but who remain unaware of the changes of the subtler forms of habit-energy think they enter dhyana or samadhi only after consciousness ceases. But in fact their consciousness does not cease when they enter samadhi. It doesn't cease because the seeds of habit-energy are not destroyed. It ceases when they no longer grasp changes among objective realms.


Thoughts about habit-energy or vasana?
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Re: Reading Red Pine's Lankavatara Sutra

Postby ed blanco on Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:04 pm

Habit-energy is one of those phrases that ring bells in me. I am habit-energy more often than not. Were it not for zazen I'd never would have realized how habitual my life is in the most profound way I can manage to see. Often doing things now I realize I don't even need to do or want to anymore. At a deeper level it is the dimension of the ego-force we so identify with. Eventually, by a process of elimination, we get to who the ego is not, if even for an instant. As for dropping habit-energy or transcending it, I don't think the road goes there, more like through it than around.

I have added to the Red Pine book and the podcasts, a translation of DT Suzuki's LANKAVATARA SUTRA but somewhat abridge and idealized by Daido Loori-roshi that I find a tremendous aid. I find myself reading it over the others.
Great stuff. :)X

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Re: Reading Red Pine's Lankavatara Sutra

Postby ed blanco on Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:18 pm

ps I went and splurged on an ipod nano 16 GB whatever that maybe. :whatever:
Powerful, incredelble sounding little bugger. Now If I can only figure out how to donwload Nomam's podcasts to Itune and from there get them to the LB that would be nice. Yesterday I spend half a day and only got the Lanka 4 with Peter....
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Re: Reading Red Pine's Lankavatara Sutra

Postby Pedestrian on Thu Feb 28, 2013 4:43 pm

ed blanco wrote:Habit-energy is one of those phrases that ring bells in me. I am habit-energy more often than not. Were it not for zazen I'd never would have realized how habitual my life is in the most profound way I can manage to see. Often doing things now I realize I don't even need to do or want to anymore. At a deeper level it is the dimension of the ego-force we so identify with. Eventually, by a process of elimination, we get to who the ego is not, if even for an instant. As for dropping habit-energy or transcending it, I don't think the road goes there, more like through it than around.


Yeah, that's really helpful. Thanks.

There's a line in the Lanka somewhere along the lines of "The will just wills," and either Red Pine or Norman Fischer points out that the word Pine is translating as "will" has also been translated as "self": so, "The self just selfs." That feels like a pretty compelling middle way to understanding habit-energy and the self/ego: it doesn't exist, it doesn't not exist, but the self just selfs. And if you can see the self doing its selfing thing but not being compelled by that selfing thing....

I dunno....
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Re: Reading Red Pine's Lankavatara Sutra

Postby ed blanco on Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:38 pm

Pedestrian wrote:
ed blanco wrote:Habit-energy is one of those phrases that ring bells in me. I am habit-energy more often than not. Were it not for zazen I'd never would have realized how habitual my life is in the most profound way I can manage to see. Often doing things now I realize I don't even need to do or want to anymore. At a deeper level it is the dimension of the ego-force we so identify with. Eventually, by a process of elimination, we get to who the ego is not, if even for an instant. As for dropping habit-energy or transcending it, I don't think the road goes there, more like through it than around.


Yeah, that's really helpful. Thanks.

There's a line in the Lanka somewhere along the lines of "The will just wills," and either Red Pine or Norman Fischer points out that the word Pine is translating as "will" has also been translated as "self": so, "The self just selfs." That feels like a pretty compelling middle way to understanding habit-energy and the self/ego: it doesn't exist, it doesn't not exist, but the self just selfs. And if you can see the self doing its selfing thing but not being compelled by that selfing thing....

I dunno....


Uchiyama-roshi, I think it's him, uses that phrase also: the self, selfing...I will look it up.
Using "self" as a verb seems acceptable, just who is doing the selfing?
Surely not the mind, more like whomever the mind works for. Habit-energy selfing away from day one? obeying echos from regions unfathomable. Then zazen is really a search for Reality. This is why studying around a sangha and techer is so important.
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Re: Reading Red Pine's Lankavatara Sutra

Postby bigskies on Fri Mar 01, 2013 7:57 pm

Is two weeks too late to be in? How in are you all, now -- about two weeks after the last post? Just a couple of days ago I picked up the softcover edition........which so far I have just been eyeing skeptically and fearfully :EEK: . I bought the hardcover about a year ago, and returned it within a week or two when I felt that I throwing away my money on something i wasn't at all ready for. I still might not be ready for it........but at least at $21.50 CDN, it seems possibly/conceivably worth another try. Still and all, I can probably use all the support I can get!
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Re: Reading Red Pine's Lankavatara Sutra

Postby Pedestrian on Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:00 pm

No such thing as too late to the Lanka! I am finding that I go back and reread different sections, skip around, follow Norman to wherever he's going, on and on. It's iterative, so dive in and we'll see what happens.

Glad you're aboard!
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Re: Reading Red Pine's Lankavatara Sutra

Postby Carol on Fri Mar 01, 2013 8:19 pm

bigskies wrote:Is two weeks too late to be in? How in are you all, now -- about two weeks after the last post? Just a couple of days ago I picked up the softcover edition........which so far I have just been eyeing skeptically and fearfully :EEK: . I bought the hardcover about a year ago, and returned it within a week or two when I felt that I throwing away my money on something i wasn't at all ready for. I still might not be ready for it........but at least at $21.50 CDN, it seems possibly/conceivably worth another try. Still and all, I can probably use all the support I can get!


Not too late. I've been heavily involved in my work the past 1-1/2 weeks and unable to give the Lanka my time and attention. Expect to get back to it soon. Appreciate the comments so far!
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Re: Reading Red Pine's Lankavatara Sutra

Postby Gregory Wonderwheel on Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:01 pm

Pedestrian wrote:Ed: :lol2:

Did everyone read all of Section III? It's the list of answers that Buddha gives to Mahamati's questions in II. I was going to skip right over it, was even making juvenile, self-humoring jokes about it ("A statement about Justin Bieber is about no Justin Bieber," etc.). But then I thought I'd just give it a go, and it was really powerful. I would read one or two that would just seem obvious, and then would hit one that hit back: "A statement about reasoning is about no reasoning" and "A statement about dust motes is about no dust motes" stand out.


This kind of section really calls for oral recitation that drives the reasoning and intellectual cognitive process over the cliff by the oral repetition that drills down (to mix the metaphors).

This chapter is an example of the teaching on opposites that is found in the Platform Sutra. I think the idea that Huineng adopted the Diamond Sutra over the Lankavatara Sutra is overstated as this teaching that "a teaching about A is a teaching about not-A" is found in both the Lankavatara and Diamond Sutras and taught by Huineng in the Platform Sutra.

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Re: Reading Red Pine's Lankavatara Sutra

Postby Gregory Wonderwheel on Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:28 pm

Pedestrian wrote:
Yeah, that's really helpful. Thanks.

There's a line in the Lanka somewhere along the lines of "The will just wills," and either Red Pine or Norman Fischer points out that the word Pine is translating as "will" has also been translated as "self": so, "The self just selfs." That feels like a pretty compelling middle way to understanding habit-energy and the self/ego: it doesn't exist, it doesn't not exist, but the self just selfs. And if you can see the self doing its selfing thing but not being compelled by that selfing thing....

I dunno....


This is a very important point. The word that Red Pine is usually translating as "will" is the Sanskrit "manas" which is the Seventh Consciousness. Some people translate it as "self consciousness" because manas results in self-consciousness, but I think that it is a mistake to translate it as "self" or "self-consciousness" because that is a one-sided construction of the term. Manas is the bifurcation (antithetical or dicotomous) function of consciousness. Manas is the polarizing filter of differentiation that makes the movement of the undifferentiated 8th Alaya or Repository/Treasury Concsiousness perceivable as the polarized positive-negative, plus-minus, wave of vibration or charged field. The manas on its own does not have a "self" consciousness or a "will." It is not until the manas as seventh conscousness interacts with the 6th cognitive consciousnees in relation to the first to fifth consciousnesses that there is a sense of "willfulness" that comes from the appearance of the illusion of "self" as the 6th and 7th consciousnesses interact.

Thus when the 6th cognitive consciousness tries to understand the sensory data of the first to fifth consciousnesses it can only do this in terms of the bifurcation function of its own trunk in the seventh conscousness (connecting it to the root in the 8th consciousness) and thus the sensory data is polarized and divided into the categories of "me" and "not me." The "me" is called the internal data and the "not me" is called the external data. Thus since the 6th cognitive consciousness recognizes that the 7th consciousness is it's internal trunk it calls the 7th consciousness the "self" or the "will" that is the "decider." But to call the 7th consciousness the "will" or the "self" is only because the 7th consciousness is being misperceived in terms of the split and seen in the one-sidedness of the split. The 7th conscousness is as much the determiner of the "not-self" and the "unwilled" as it is the determiner of the "will" and the "self."

Thus the third chapter with the repitition of the formula of "a statement about A is a statement about not-A" is a specific method to drive the thinking process of the 6th consciousness into direct confrontation with the 7th consciousness. When the 6th consciousness it functioning in the "normal" one-sided manner it says "a statement about A is not a statement about not-A." The repetition about "A includes not-A" as the way to pierce the veil of oppositions is the direct method to penetrate and pierce through the differentiation function of the 7th consciousness to turn the light around to directly perceive the undifferentiated and unconditioned nature of the 8th consciousness.

The habit energy refers to our habitual movement of onesidedness in the flow of awareness from the 8th through the 7th to the 6th and being externalized as the 1st to 5th. The habit energy is our habit of viewing appearances as either external or internal. We can't turn around this habit energy until we can let go of this propensity to believe in the reality of the external-internal dicotomy resulting from bifurcation process of the 7th consciousness.

Or have I made it more confusing?
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P.S. Vasana is the term "vaSa" with the suffix "nA". The word vaSa means "staying, remaining, abiding, dwelling" etc. The suffix "nA" means "that which" or "the state of". The word "vasAnA" literally means "that which remains or stays" and means "the impression of anything remaining unconsciously in the mind". It is likened to the perfume or fragrance that remains in a room after the incense is burned
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Re: Reading Red Pine's Lankavatara Sutra

Postby Gregory Wonderwheel on Fri Mar 01, 2013 10:47 pm

ed blanco wrote:I have added to the Red Pine book and the podcasts, a translation of DT Suzuki's LANKAVATARA SUTRA but somewhat abridge and idealized by Daido Loori-roshi that I find a tremendous aid. I find myself reading it over the others.
Great stuff. :)X

:O:

Do you mean the Dwight Goddard version by Monkfish publishers that has the new forward by Daido? This version was first published in Gaddard's A Buddhist Bible and available online here.

Goddard wrote this version as a way of reorganizing the material more coherently. Since he has rearranged the text and cut out what was seen as duplicative text as well as confusing text, his version is called an "epitomized" version and is more of a "restatement" of the original than a direct translation.

There is a fun oral reading of Goddard's text available online and for download. I like listening to it on long solo drives.

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Re: Reading Red Pine's Lankavatara Sutra

Postby Gregory Wonderwheel on Sat Mar 02, 2013 6:58 pm

A note for beginning students who look at the Lankavatara Sutra and see it as too difficult and confusing.

The Lankavatara is very difficult to process intellectually because it directly challenges our usual and habitual thinking structures. The Lankavatara goes through the outline of most of the major ideas of Buddha Dharma and asks "How about looking at it from this angle?" That angle is the angle of the One Vehicle of one's own realization of the Buddha Mind, the Tathagata knowledge. This One Vehicle view synthesizes the major features of the three branches of trhe Mahayana, Mahdhyamaka, Yogacara, and Tathagatagarbha, as well as addressing the major points of general Buddha Dharma such as the 4 Noble Truths, causation, nirvana, arhats and bodhisattvas, etc.

Basically, the Lankavatara says this is how the Tathagata looks at these points of Buddha Dharma, not how they are taught to the beginner or student. And therefore it is very difficult for beginning students who are confronted with a different way of looking at reality, i.e., it is a view that is free from the common world view of anthithetical consciousness.

You just have to remember that the Lankavatara is directly and inextricablly rooted in meditation practice that has turned the light around, and until you have the direct experience of turning the light around, your understanding of the Lanka will be an act of faith. Once you have had even a small glimpse of the light turned around to see your root nature, then the Lanka begins to make sense, not as an article of faith, but as confirmation of your own realization of the noble knowing (aryajnana) that is the One Vehicle of all the Buddhas.

Reading the Lankavatara is the best and most wonderful practice to measure one's own realization, and the Zen student can confirm their insight by reading and rereading the Lankavatara over and over again until not one word is confusing or difficult. As long as there is a word or passage in the Lankavatara that we don't understand, then that is a marvelous indication and confirmation there is still a deeper inquiry for us to traverse.

IMHO.
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Re: Reading Red Pine's Lankavatara Sutra

Postby Pedestrian on Sat Mar 02, 2013 9:26 pm

That's a great post, Gregory. I am particularly compelled by this paragraph:

Gregory Wonderwheel wrote:You just have to remember that the Lankavatara is directly and inextricablly rooted in meditation practice that has turned the light around, and until you have the direct experience of turning the light around, your understanding of the Lanka will be an act of faith. Once you have had even a small glimpse of the light turned around to see your root nature, then the Lanka begins to make sense, not as an article of faith, but as confirmation of your own realization of the noble knowing (aryajnana) that is the One Vehicle of all the Buddhas.


I'll add that the reciprocal is also true, at least for me: that this inquiry into the Lanka feeds back into my zazen practice -- and expands it. Dogen's Genjokoan peeks out from every leaf, smile, car horn, and gum wrapper....

Gregory Wonderwheel wrote:Reading the Lankavatara is the best and most wonderful practice to measure one's own realization, and the Zen student can confirm their insight by reading and rereading the Lankavatara over and over again until not one word is confusing or difficult. As long as there is a word or passage in the Lankavatara that we don't understand, then that is a marvelous indication and confirmation there is still a deeper inquiry for us to traverse.


Gregory's claim makes me realize the extent to which this second reading of the Lanka has broadened the impact of the other three sutras (Heart, Diamond, and Platform) I've recently read.

Thanks, Gregory. Thanks, Lanka.
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Re: Reading Red Pine's Lankavatara Sutra

Postby Pedestrian on Sat Mar 02, 2013 9:58 pm

Also wanted to say thanks for this post, some particularly powerful parts of which I've highlighted in bold:

Gregory Wonderwheel wrote:
Pedestrian wrote:There's a line in the Lanka somewhere along the lines of "The will just wills," and either Red Pine or Norman Fischer points out that the word Pine is translating as "will" has also been translated as "self": so, "The self just selfs." That feels like a pretty compelling middle way to understanding habit-energy and the self/ego: it doesn't exist, it doesn't not exist, but the self just selfs. And if you can see the self doing its selfing thing but not being compelled by that selfing thing....


This is a very important point. The word that Red Pine is usually translating as "will" is the Sanskrit "manas" which is the Seventh Consciousness. Some people translate it as "self consciousness" because manas results in self-consciousness, but I think that it is a mistake to translate it as "self" or "self-consciousness" because that is a one-sided construction of the term. Manas is the bifurcation (antithetical or dicotomous) function of consciousness. Manas is the polarizing filter of differentiation that makes the movement of the undifferentiated 8th Alaya or Repository/Treasury Concsiousness perceivable as the polarized positive-negative, plus-minus, wave of vibration or charged field. The manas on its own does not have a "self" consciousness or a "will." It is not until the manas as seventh conscousness interacts with the 6th cognitive consciousnees in relation to the first to fifth consciousnesses that there is a sense of "willfulness" that comes from the appearance of the illusion of "self" as the 6th and 7th consciousnesses interact.

Thus when the 6th cognitive consciousness tries to understand the sensory data of the first to fifth consciousnesses it can only do this in terms of the bifurcation function of its own trunk in the seventh conscousness (connecting it to the root in the 8th consciousness) and thus the sensory data is polarized and divided into the categories of "me" and "not me." The "me" is called the internal data and the "not me" is called the external data. Thus since the 6th cognitive consciousness recognizes that the 7th consciousness is it's internal trunk it calls the 7th consciousness the "self" or the "will" that is the "decider." But to call the 7th consciousness the "will" or the "self" is only because the 7th consciousness is being misperceived in terms of the split and seen in the one-sidedness of the split. The 7th conscousness is as much the determiner of the "not-self" and the "unwilled" as it is the determiner of the "will" and the "self." [snip]

The habit energy refers to our habitual movement of onesidedness in the flow of awareness from the 8th through the 7th to the 6th and being externalized as the 1st to 5th. The habit energy is our habit of viewing appearances as either external or internal. We can't turn around this habit energy until we can let go of this propensity to believe in the reality of the external-internal dicotomy resulting from bifurcation process of the 7th consciousness.

Or have I made it more confusing?


Not for me, at least insofar as my highlights above distill your post down a bit. Let me try to provide a response.

I have been chewing on "the self just selfs" for a few days now. Specifically, I have been increasingly aware of the statement in response to this or that popping into my head throughout the day. (Perhaps it would be more inclusive to say, "The self just selfs and therefore simultaneously non-selfs.") It was akin to being aware of a thought in zazen and letting it go, but had the additional effect of making that "selfing" process visible.

So, for example, when I noticed I was mentally reviewing the grocery list for gaps for the fourth time in two minutes earlier today, I thought, "Ah, that self, it's selfing again, the habit energy flowing in the usual direction." I was aware not only of the thought but of how that process (which I believe is the manas, or 7th, consciousness?) is creating a "self" via discrimination, bifurcation, good/bad shopping list judgment, now/later temporal monkey business... and so on.

Very powerful stuff. It reminds me of a line from Diane Rizzetto, I think, about the tenacious ways that the self dreams itself into being.
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Re: Reading Red Pine's Lankavatara Sutra

Postby bigskies on Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:24 pm

I'm still here --- you know, the guy in the darkest corner of the back row who doesn't want anyone to see the look of abject confusion on his face! As well, though, I'm behind --- just a ways into Mahamati's questions. I trying to think I'm doing the best I can, but I'm afraid that involves not continually falling into the rabbit hole of Red Pine's copious notes. That's maybe the only way I can survive and "advance" at this point.........but I suspect i am doing myself an injustice by not delving into them too deeply. Maybe it's akin to taking a university science course that is heavily lab-based --- but skipping the labs and just attending the lectures. Hmmm.

But, Gregory, your post above gives me great strength -- and even some hope! While LS is very demanding now, I'm not opposed (???) to rereading it, and take some considerable solace that that'll help me in the long(er) run. The parts of your posts that Pedestrian highlighted resonated with me as well. Many thanks!

So, sadly for all of you who are looking for soem group insight, I have little to offer. Page 31 was a good one for me, and I rode the crest nicely of the first paragraph. The one borderline-challenging part there was merely the use of "the three continuities", which is a term I haven't encountered before. I will continue juggling the use of "continuity" as it applies to greed, anger, and delusion, and see if that is a more telling word than the usual "poisons".

My only other comment is that Mahamati's questions form a vast and extensive arsenal of posers that could be used at something such as the Shuso Ceremony I stumbled into at Santa Cruz Zen Center in December. We thought we were just going to the regularly-scheduled Wednesday evening sitting, but it turned out that it was closing of the Shuso's leadership during the practice period. The form at SCZC is for anyone to ask the Shuso a question, and any number of them had a Koan-like conundrum quality to them --- or rang vastly as do Mahamati's questions.

That's it from me. I will continue to plod forth, and glean all I can from the comments here. (And, i have to figure out a way to make Norman's talks work for me; work, as in how to get them to play while I'm doing something else. I have no cyber-skills, so this is a big problem. Sigh.)

Onwards!
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Re: Reading Red Pine's Lankavatara Sutra

Postby Pedestrian on Tue Mar 12, 2013 3:41 pm

Another translation question (words, always with the words...): what are the Sanskrit and Chinese terms that Red Pine is translating as "personal"? And what relation does that term have to the word "intimate"?

I ask because it seems that "personal realization" is akin to "intimate realization," and gets away from the "person" part of "personal". My own path has been aided by holding the word "intimate" now and then, but perhaps I've got an apples and oranges issue here....
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Re: Reading Red Pine's Lankavatara Sutra

Postby ed blanco on Wed Mar 13, 2013 2:01 pm

Gregory Wonderwheel wrote:A note for beginning students who look at the Lankavatara Sutra and see it as too difficult and confusing.

The Lankavatara is very difficult to process intellectually because it directly challenges our usual and habitual thinking structures. The Lankavatara goes through the outline of most of the major ideas of Buddha Dharma and asks "How about looking at it from this angle?" That angle is the angle of the One Vehicle of one's own realization of the Buddha Mind, the Tathagata knowledge. This One Vehicle view synthesizes the major features of the three branches of trhe Mahayana, Mahdhyamaka, Yogacara, and Tathagatagarbha, as well as addressing the major points of general Buddha Dharma such as the 4 Noble Truths, causation, nirvana, arhats and bodhisattvas, etc.

Basically, the Lankavatara says this is how the Tathagata looks at these points of Buddha Dharma, not how they are taught to the beginner or student. And therefore it is very difficult for beginning students who are confronted with a different way of looking at reality, i.e., it is a view that is free from the common world view of anthithetical consciousness.

You just have to remember that the Lankavatara is directly and inextricablly rooted in meditation practice that has turned the light around, and until you have the direct experience of turning the light around, your understanding of the Lanka will be an act of faith. Once you have had even a small glimpse of the light turned around to see your root nature, then the Lanka begins to make sense, not as an article of faith, but as confirmation of your own realization of the noble knowing (aryajnana) that is the One Vehicle of all the Buddhas.

Reading the Lankavatara is the best and most wonderful practice to measure one's own realization, and the Zen student can confirm their insight by reading and rereading the Lankavatara over and over again until not one word is confusing or difficult. As long as there is a word or passage in the Lankavatara that we don't understand, then that is a marvelous indication and confirmation there is still a deeper inquiry for us to traverse.

IMHO.
_/|\_
Gregory


:rbow:
:O:

And for the link on the "Epitomized" version as well. Thank you Gregory.
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Re: Reading Red Pine's Lankavatara Sutra

Postby ed blanco on Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:42 pm

OK Gregory, I downloaded the "singing Lanka" It sounds unusual which explains the different angle of approah; I see why you say it's to listen in long drives, perfect for Everglades National Park on Sunday.
Again, thanks.
The problem I am having now is I study commentaries and new books like LIVING BY VOW, etc. Practice takes most of my time, spare or not. Reading long sutras while practice, it's a task for me at this junction. I do it but rather sit or read Uchyama or Okamura, and so many others.
The Goddard, 'epitomized' edition is wonderful, so I will read that one slowly. I removed the dust cover and found quite a nice little, well bound book.
I will now quit thanking people here for a while.
:O:
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