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Who/What can we "pray" to when things get desperate?

Discussion of Japanese Sōtō Zen / 曹洞宗

Who/What can we "pray" to when things get desperate?

Postby Sparkle on Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:01 am

Yeah, I know...

No big man in the sky chucking thunderbolts at you for stealing bleach and cheese sauce mix from the local shop as a kid (sorry Mr Sangha..yeah...seriously!)

But when your back is really against the wall - not suicidal, or the stage up from that - the one after that perhaps. You've no-one to confide in.

Years gone by when I was still battling to shoehorn Christianity into my life I had THE GOD and his boy. I could drop to my knees anywhere anytime and those two were always there to listen...Very reliable! A bit pants on the old answering side of things though. In fact.I found that the more i followed thier WAY, the worse things were getting. So much so that I took to drunken challenges - raging at the empty sky - inviting big-time wrath if they really existed...but they didn't...

I did have everything arse-over-tit, and Mr God and JC (existent or non) had no part to play in my misery which was, of course, all self-inflicted.

Nonsense!

So it seemed.

How refreshing to leave all of that behind with Zen.

So twenty years since we needed GOD-NESS. And in ten years of sitting we have learned a lot. We can put many many things into practice in our everyday life. In fact, we can hold our chin up in a slightly lofty position in a mildly "holy" manner because of our goodness. WE can handle most situations well with the POWER OF ZEN...HA!

WE NO NEED NO GOD!!

OH MY!

It doesn't matter the whys and what's - and I suppose in times of extreme difficulty I've just reverted back to what I've known, but I really, really needed to ask SOMEONE to pray, to BESEECH something for help!

God of the clouds, from the bible fiction...pah!

I have read various things about God in Buddhism - including Brad Warner's book on that very subject.

But it all goes against the grain. I came here to get away from that shit, BUT THAT'S WHAT I NEEDED!! AAAARGH!!!!

In the end, thinking of The Universe, and the Cosmic Buddha as a personification of...I used this as a focus of prayer, to say what I had to say.

I know Kanzeon is supposed to hear the cries of the world (errmm....? Is this not more Christian-like gobbledegook?) But so desperate was I feeling I chanted the Enmei Jukku Kannon Gyo also anyway.

So is it just tough poop?

You wanna pray...? Go see a priest!

Or within Soto Zen what can I do without getting all SUPERNATURAL .

N.B. I Do practice with a group and have access to a teacher but it will be a while before I will be doing so again and as this was such a difficult time I wanted to ask before then. Thank you.
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Re: Who/What can we "pray" to when things get desperate?

Postby Chrisd on Wed Mar 04, 2015 10:53 am

Does it matter? Whatever we pray to has some truth to it and some untruth. Like when I'm talking to you I have some idea who I'm talking to but not quite, it's partly accurate.

I pray to God/Self, whatever sometimes. I know I don't really know what I'm praying to, but it can feel helpful.

We're not alone in the Universe so why not ask some help now and then? If it doesn't feel appropriate, then don't. Simple.

There's no need to get all the facts straight beforehand. We're operating on a limited brain-system, it's not capable of knowing 100% of the universe in fact-data. Nor does it need to. Of course a new paradigm like changing from Christianity to Buddhism can be helpful but it's only a new paradigm. A way of looking at the Universe that is partly correct and partly mistaken. Useful in a way, destructive in another.

So I'm for pray all the way to whatever, sit zazen and live your life :daisy:

Feel into the confusion in the body, be patient with it and allow what comes up to come up. Breathe.
Last edited by Chrisd on Wed Mar 04, 2015 11:00 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Who/What can we "pray" to when things get desperate?

Postby Herbie on Wed Mar 04, 2015 10:56 am

Seems like Soto can make easy things quite complicated.
Although we don't know anything, let's make words! Words are inspiring.
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Re: Who/What can we "pray" to when things get desperate?

Postby Chrisd on Wed Mar 04, 2015 11:08 am

If you don't mind me posting this wonder, I thought it's also applicable.

Carlos Casteneda wrote:Anything is one of a million paths. Therefore you must always keep in mind that a path is only a path; if you feel you should not follow it, you must not stay with it under any conditions. To have such clarity you must lead a disciplined life. Only then will you know that any path is only a path and there is no affront, to oneself or to others, in dropping it if that is what your heart tells you to do. But your decision to keep on the path or to leave it must be free of fear or ambition. I warn you. Look at every path closely and deliberately. Try it as many times as you think necessary.

This question is one that only a very old man asks. Does this path have a heart? All paths are the same: they lead nowhere. They are paths going through the bush, or into the bush. In my own life I could say I have traversed long long paths, but I am not anywhere. Does this path have a heart? If it does, the path is good; if it doesn't, it is of no use. Both paths lead nowhere; but one has a heart, the other doesn't. One makes for a joyful journey; as long as you follow it, you are one with it. The other will make you curse your life. One makes you strong; the other weakens you.

Before you embark on any path ask the question: Does this path have a heart? If the answer is no, you will know it, and then you must choose another path. The trouble is nobody asks the question; and when a man finally realizes that he has taken a path without a heart, the path is ready to kill him. At that point very few men can stop to deliberate, and leave the path. A path without a heart is never enjoyable. You have to work hard even to take it. On the other hand, a path with heart is easy; it does not make you work at liking it.

For me there is only the traveling on the paths that have a heart, on any path that may have a heart. There I travel, and the only worthwhile challenge for me is to traverse its full length. And there I travel--looking, looking, breathlessly.
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Re: Who/What can we "pray" to when things get desperate?

Postby Sparkle on Wed Mar 04, 2015 11:12 am

Yeah it feels hippocritical somehow...lingering guilt from the Christian upbringing perhaps?

Sending a wish to the Universe when zazen is not an option?

Thanks Chris and Herbie :heya:
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Re: Who/What can we "pray" to when things get desperate?

Postby macdougdoug on Wed Mar 04, 2015 11:14 am

I don't know whether its supernatural or not - depends what beliefs we're holding onto - but its always seemed magical how intelligence, once freed, can always provide the perfect solution.

It seems miraculous and divine to me : if you have an overwhelming problem, just try continuous zazen or choiceless awareness - in short accept the situation ie this problem exists, and I'm wondering what the solution is (this is just what occurs naturally) then watch as solutions appear in your mind; watch them appear and dissapear without holding on to any of them. If the problem really is important to you, and you don't 'try' to solve it, neither accept any of the immediate 'solutions' that come to mind; the ideas will keep refining themselves until the problem is 'seen' totally, and dissapears - ie a pefect solution or an understanding that totally flips the whole thang.

This is like direct contact with 'god' - unless one has trauma with this concept, then maybe the term 'freedom of intelligence' might be better.
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Re: Who/What can we "pray" to when things get desperate?

Postby Sparkle on Wed Mar 04, 2015 11:15 am

Thanks for the quote also Chris...Am gude!! :dance:

Although I do hanker after a koan from time-to-time lol
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Re: Who/What can we "pray" to when things get desperate?

Postby macdougdoug on Wed Mar 04, 2015 11:19 am

there is no path - only images that I hold to be true

there is no path - but with christians always say amen, with buddhists always mention the triple jewel.

but know in your heart that amen is just a word, the 3 jewels an infinite number of concepts in a million different hearts.
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Re: Who/What can we "pray" to when things get desperate?

Postby Chrisd on Wed Mar 04, 2015 11:33 am

Guilt is also not just Christian. In capitalist society there's the guilt of not being "good enough" to cope with the system. It's a hidden thing. We're meant to put on smiley faces everywhere (facebook) and not to spoil the party :PP: people can feel very guilty when they do. If/when we open up to that feeling and be patient with it, something may reveal itself. This means being and becoming vulnerable, also not something this society is particularly fond of. We enjoy pretending we know it all (we don't).

If you're coming at guilt from a purely Christian angle of course the story is a little different but the challenge is similar. I wish you strength, patience and luck :heya: be willing to be with feeling hippocritical. It'll crack.

:Namaste:
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Re: Who/What can we "pray" to when things get desperate?

Postby Sparkle on Wed Mar 04, 2015 11:37 am

Well Macdougy,

After my little blubber fest in the bath as detailed above, goodness knows how I ended up listening to a Therevaden monk's talk. Never have before.

Within the first 3 minutes I realised the talk was almost custom-designed for my current issues...just after I asked for help this popped up on YouTube. And I've never listened to a non Zen talk before then.

So...something is afoot IMHO.

Because my life is littered with stuff like this...not God related...but karma(?) related. One of the other things that first piqued my interest and got me on the path.

I'm being very contradictory??????
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Re: Who/What can we "pray" to when things get desperate?

Postby macdougdoug on Wed Mar 04, 2015 11:45 am

We are contradictory when we come to conclusions - when we name and form pictures - for for every conclusion is at odds with every other conclusion - the picture is always at odds with the world.
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Re: Who/What can we "pray" to when things get desperate?

Postby Sparkle on Wed Mar 04, 2015 11:57 am

So no need to conclude is the conclusion :rbow:
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Re: Who/What can we "pray" to when things get desperate?

Postby littletsu on Wed Mar 04, 2015 12:29 pm

I think of prayer more like an honest and fully responsible effort to face ourselves, our present situation and condition.
Not necessarily somekinda messaging procedure from A to B. To me, when you we set out for prayer, it is very similar to
mustering concentration while doing meditation, it really needs that extra effort and sincerity to "do it" now and not just
wait for it to happen as a sort of a result of practice sometime in the future (I often catch myself doing this mini procrastination
during sitting, like "ok now I am settling in my posture for a few minutes", blabla, but in fact I just dont wanna make the effort).
However, I have to say, even though I was baptised as a Catholic, my mind hasn't been loaded with too many ideas of the
mainstream Christian "practice", so maybe I - fortunately - lack that aversion that many people seem to display. So if I think
about praying to a stone (hmm, I think I have seen a few Buddha shaped stones, not sure they were natural or man-made), it doesn't feel just dumb, it feels more like taking a moment to face that great wonder of the mind.
As long as desperation, I think your question is kind of an answer in itself, because, simply holding up this question "who can I pray to now?" is a pretty good way to get "through".

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有燈就有人。
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Re: Who/What can we "pray" to when things get desperate?

Postby Chrisd on Wed Mar 04, 2015 12:36 pm

Sparkle wrote:So no need to conclude is the conclusion :rbow:


:lol2:
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Re: Who/What can we "pray" to when things get desperate?

Postby fukasetsu on Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:20 pm

Everyone knows the form of prayer called far-reaching cries to the guru. The key to invoking energy is devotion inspired by disenchantment and determination, devotion that comes from the depths of your heart and the marrow of your bones, not merely from your lips mouthing the words. Sing this melodious song with complete conviction that your guru is none other than The Awakened One.

Cry to the guru

Guru, think of me.
Kind root guru, think of me.

Essence of the buddhas of the three times,
Source of the holy Dharma of teaching and experience,
Master of the sangha, the assembly of noble ones,
Root guru, think of me.

Great treasure of energy and compassion,
Source of the two attainments,
Provider, through awakened activity, of everything needed,
Root guru, think of me.

Guru Amitabha, think of me.
Look upon me from the simplicity of the vastness of what is.
Because of my ruinous actions, I am lost in samsara,
Lead me to the pure Realm of Bliss.

Guru Avalokitesvara, think of me.
Look upon me from the sheer clarity of the vastness of enjoyment.
Calm completely the suffering of the six realms
And churn the three realms of samsara to its depths.

Guru Padmakara, think of me
Look upon me from your palace, Lotus Light, in Chamara.
In these dark times I am weary and without refuge.
Quickly, out of your compassion, shelter me.

Guru Yeshe Tsogyal, think of me.
Look upon me from the sky dweller city of bliss.
Evildoer that I am, release me from the sea of samsara
Into the city of freedom.

Gurus of the kama and terma lineages, think of me.
Look upon me from the vastness of indivisible pristine awareness.
Break through the darkness of my confused mind
And bring the dawn of direct understanding.

Complete knowing Trimé Özer, think of me.
Look upon me from the vastness of the five naturally present lights.
Help me to master how to be in original purity
And complete the four visions. father and son, think of me.
Look upon me from the midst of hundreds of gods in Tushita.
Help me to give birth to awakening mind,
The essence of emptiness and compassion.

Three masters, Marpa, Mila, and Dakpo, think of me.
Look upon me from the space of indestructible bliss.
Help me to master mahamudra, bliss and emptiness,
And awaken the form of what is deep in my heart.

Karmapa, lord of the world, think of me.
Look upon me from the space where you teach beings without limit.
Help me to know that all experience is insubstantial and illusory.
Make appearance and mind dawn as the three dimensions of awakening. think of me.
Look upon me from the realm of sacred outlook.
Help me to clear away confusion in the four states
And complete experience and understanding.

Five noble Sakya forefathers, think of me.
Look upon me from the vastness of inseparable samsara and nirvana.
Help me to connect pure outlook, practice, and activity
And tread the excellent path of mysteries.

Incomparable Shangpa masters, think of me.
Look upon me from the field of total purity.
Help me to practice method and release properly
And find the union beyond training.

Great master, Tongtong Gyalpo, think of me.
Look upon me from the vastness of effortless compassion.
Help me to practice the deliberate behavior of knowing no reality
And unite mind and energy in their natural power.

Only father, Padampa Sangje, think of me.
Look upon me from the realm of the mastery of action.
Make the energy of your lineage enter my heart
And make good conditions arise everywhere.

Only mother, Lapchi Dröma, think of me.
Look upon me from the vastness of the perfection of wisdom.
Help me to cut through the arrogance of self-fixation
And see the truth of simplicity beyond self.
Differences are never in opposition.
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Re: Who/What can we "pray" to when things get desperate?

Postby fukasetsu on Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:21 pm

The Last Prayer of Dudjom Rinpoche

(Freely transliterated by the presumptuous Bob O'Hearn, as a gift from a cloud to the sky)

Ati Guru, hail to You!

Sincere and open-hearted homage to the Only One, appearing as Buddhas and Bodhisattvas, Saints and Sinners, Fools and Thieves, Mothers and Fathers, Sons and Daughters, Husbands and Wives, Lovers and Friends, Killers and Marauders, Poets and Clowns, Leaf and Limb, Goats and Sheep, Cloud and Sky, Yin and Yang, Rain and Shine, Ants and Mosquitoes, Dharma Protectors and Dharma Deniers, Carrot and Cucumber, Actors and Audience, the Awake and Aware, the Asleep in the Deep, Magic and Mystery, Good and Evil, the Absence of Good and Evil, the Totality of the Universal Manifestation, and its serene spacious Emptiness!

Always one-pointedly remembering you from the depths of our hearts, we pray repeatedly before the mirror, invoking your compassionate attention.

Through the power of unobstructed loving kindness and gracious tolerance, see us as we are -- not different from what you are, and so not separate and alone, not afraid or bewildered, not in a hurry or stalled by delay, not postponing and not anticipating, just here as ever, singing this song to you, with you, as you.

Bless us to accomplish what we came here for, even though we came for no particular reason. That in itself is a blessing!

Having no purpose, we accomplish all in accordance with the Supreme Dharma in which there is nothing to accomplish, to remember or forget, to gather or surrender, to hold and to cherish, in this life or the next.

From former positive actions performed by nobody, we have gained this precious human body, though we are not this body, or any body in particular, nor has anything been acquired, performed, or achieved.

Due to merit, by no means small, we have met the holy Dharma, and it is us, though we are small, and utterly without merit or holiness.

Though we are small, all the uncountable galaxies revolve within us like circus performers under the big top, scattering empowerments, blessings, wise instructions, and party favors garnered from inconceivable Buddha fields as numerous as grains of sand on an infinite beach.

Though we hold such fabulous jewels in our paws right now, our minds, like manic monkeys, are seduced by every sly peanut vendor of distraction that comes around, luring us with the meager enticements of toasted oil and salt.

Having been fortunate enough to have been granted birth in a realm where we could hear and ponder the wisdom of liberation, our obscuring emotions should have diminished and our minds should have evolved to the point of pure perception, but instead, we have just gotten worse, cascading on towards pools of dull stupidity like a raging waterfall!

We trade our wealth, our freedoms, endowments, and wise instructions for bags of stale goobers, until we reach such a tasteless state of delusion that everything we perceive assumes the same quality as a flimsy fairy tale of dark shadows and demonic compulsions.

Dressing up in Dharma costumes, we imagine that we are authentic practitioners, yet this body and mind with which we are identified only imitates of true practice, like a cartoon character pretending to be real.

Bereft of even basic human common sense, let alone the clear view of true wisdom, we can't even admit that we know nothing, but instead casually critique the sages and their teachings.

We remain fixated in self-absorbed opinions and petty airs, while our big mouths parrot any scrap of clichéd nonsense that pops into our heads.

Wallowing in a stagnant swamp of sectarian biases and humorless beliefs, true inquiry is abandoned, and our cruel and thoughtless deeds bring us no shame.

With patience as short as the horn of a snail, we think nothing of others' well-being, but spare no effort in announcing our fraudulent credentials and wry conceits to any ear that will bother listening.

Mimicking the Dharma in this way is just toting around a big bag of dried turds and claiming it as some precious treasure.

We may have read a lot of scripture and heard a lot of teachings, but they only fatten our arrogance and pride, turning our lives into cautionary tales about how a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.

Our feeble mental analysis does not penetrate the beguiling facade of flashy appearances -- we are too busy chasing soap bubbles to realize that whatever we are trying to grab hold of is only a bit of glossy moisture floating on thin air.

Though we imagine we have developed some concentration, the slightest flash of phenomenal triviality can scatter our focus like leaves in a gale.

Though we imagine we have partaken of some superior training, the light behind the mind is still like a painted picture of a paper lantern.

Though we imagine we honor an aspirant's vows, true liberation is the last thing we are really interested in.

Though we can mouth explanations of various arcane texts, we cling to mediocre and mundane word games as if we have never learned a thing.

Though we might give lip service to our nominal Guides, our respect and devotion last only as long as we believe we are getting our money's worth.

Secretly, we believe we are their equals, and react in a rage of intolerance should anyone dare question our borrowed and embellished points of view.

Respect, love, and kindness toward our fellow practitioners are dependent on how highly they praise and honor our imagined attainments.

Even a cautionary word on their part seems intolerable and we quickly renounce their friendship. The love and compassion born of recognizing that there are no others, that all are ourselves, vanishes like mist when we do not awaken to real Bodhicitta.

Though we act as if we have some genuine experience of the various stages of practice and recognition, in fact we have never experienced an alternative to our uninspected fantasies of interpretation on perception, which we nevertheless take to be real.

Though we have heard that Emptiness is the ultimate teaching, we have no decisive understanding of it; our mind-streams are too fixated in cycles of identification with craving and aversion, hope and fear.

Unable to come to rest in the clear and open transparency of awake awareness, we merely nod to the view, and yet behave as spoiled, restless children.

Though outwardly we appear to be examples of equanimity, yet on the inside, greed, envy, hatred, pride, and ignorance burn like fire.

Though we might reside in the forest or mountains, secluded from the human world, day and night our minds ceaselessly wander in the city streets, looking for another fix to break our jaded sense of boredom and discontent.

We don’t really believe in our own practice, and yet we make a pretense of guiding and advising others, like a child making up stories.

Through our lack of integrity, we shamelessly cheat and harm ourselves, as well as all with whom we come in contact.

Knowing full well what we are doing, we get into self-destructive habits anyway, dragged around by the nose by any fleeting whim or fancy, addicted to every foolishness, seduced by the allurements of instant sensual gratification.

Not maintaining mindfulness, the hot air of our billowing thoughts blows us this way and that, our untamed minds cannot rest, and so we seek relief in oblivion tonics and poisonous cheap quick highs.

Now in this moment as mind regards itself, everything we do or don't do merely increases our huge bladder of defects.

Everything we conceive of is infected with emotional contraction and conflicting reactivity, yet how clever we still seem to ourselves.

All of our efforts seem destined for failure.

Where can we go from here but even further down?

Even a glimmer of self-observation is disillusioning, while looking to others only amplifies our sense of separation.

Where can we turn in this realm of lies, selfishness, and suffering? Who can we trust to show the way?

If we don't get our act together now, when Death comes calling, our protests and pleas will fall on deaf ears. No one will save us, and we will only have ourselves to blame.

With remorse and regret, we need to recognize our own fraudulence and self-deception. Isn't it about time?

All of this would be sad enough if there was such a being as an independent, concrete, and enduring person, but since that has never been the case, we are even more confused.

In a dream, an illusion is chasing a mirage.

Wherever we have failed in our practice through errors of judgment and appreciation, thought or deed, let's not make it worse by trying to conceal it in the presence of the Victorious Ones.

Therefore, from the depths of our hearts, we confess our failings, our foolishness and cruelties, our greediness and envy, our pride and arrogance, our petty preferences, our grasping and avoiding, our refusal to listen and our stubborn clinging to delusions of mind and body.

In your unbounded compassion, forgive us.

Protect us from the error of dead-end paths.

Guide us so that we can discover the perfect recognition of liberation.

Having so far wandered, distracted, through life, chasing this and avoiding that, we have missed the essential meaning, and instead played the role of charlatans, outwardly appearing as practitioners, but inwardly seething with the snakes of untamed passions and compounded delusion.

Shouldn't we be treading the path of recognizing the one thing that liberates all, instead of acting like the walking dead, stuffed dummies, exhausted donkeys, or hungry ghosts?

Undeceiving Supreme Protector, sole certainty and support, Root Guru who encompasses all refuges, Inner Guru who is our own True Nature, we pray to you with one-pointed devotion.

Kindly regard us with the most merciful compassion, which is the mark of Awakened Mind.

Bless us with true humility and uncompromising vision, so that we can clearly see our own faults.

Please bless us so that we can always forgive the faults of others, and quit blaming and complaining.

Bless us so we can abandon all selfish schemes and violent reactivities.

Please bless us so that only pure and healing impulses arise in our hearts.

Bless us so we develop freedom from grasping and clinging, and learn to be content with whatever we are given.

Please bless us so we remain mindful of impermanence.

Bless us so we are able to fulfill our purpose in this life, and not die with regrets.
Bless us so we can confidently embody the Way of Love and Wisdom -- not as a talking strategy, but as the way we actually behave in life and relations.

Bless us so we practice unbiased pure recognition to the point where our hair stands on end at the mere appearance of anything at all!

Please bless us so that we develop an uncontrived respect and devotion for all life that brings tears to our eyes.

Bless us that we stop daydreaming about unobtainable goals and accomplishments, put aside our present fantasies, relax and let go of past concerns, and just be.

Please bless us with the power to turn the light around and recognize the ever-present radiance of our True Nature in the depths of our hearts and minds.

The ultimate point of practice is to liberate our mind streams, even from the delusion that there is any such entity that is bound and in need of liberation.

Please bless us.

Bless us so that our practice is free of obstacles, or full of obstacles, since obstacles are only mind, and mind is empty.

Please bless us so that its results may ripen immediately, even though time is mind, and mind is empty.

Bless us so that we may liberate everything we come into contact with, even though whatever appears is mind, and mind is empty.

Please bless us so that we destroy the duality of hope and fear, even though there is no creation or destruction.

Bless us so that we see the non-dual primordial wisdom and recognize it as our own.
Bless us so that we reach the secure ground where there is nowhere to stand, nowhere to arrive at or depart from, or nowhere on which to plant a flag and consider that we are done for the day.

Please bless us so that we gain ultimate effortless certainty, until we are able at last to abandon clinging to any certainty and so fall freely into the vast Unknown.

With the great diamond sword of unconditioned pristine recognition, may the conceptual designations of "samsara" and "nirvana" be cut into emptiness with one stroke.

Since within the expanse of the all-pervasive equalness, the unobstructed great bliss enjoyment of the Real, even the word "suffering" does not exist, how much less the notions of "together" or "separate"?

Who could there be still searching for happiness, where happiness and suffering have the same taste, and seeking is self-liberated?

This is the Kingdom of the primordial Awakened One:
May all beings awaken to it in this very lifetime!

Om Ah Hum

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Re: Who/What can we "pray" to when things get desperate?

Postby Seeker242 on Wed Mar 04, 2015 1:55 pm

>Who/What can we "pray" to when things get desperate?


I would say "Our own Buddha Nature." :) One can look to the wisdom that is inside oneself since that is where all wisdom comes from anyway. Zen teaching over and over says "look inside, look inside". Reading books and listening to teachers is nice, but they can't give someone wisdom. Have to find that inside ourselves. One can pray to the Buddha that is inside oneself.

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Re: Who/What can we "pray" to when things get desperate?

Postby Herbie on Wed Mar 04, 2015 3:27 pm

comments inserted
The prayer as it occurs in Matthew 6:9–13

Our Father in heaven,
God is boundless equanimity. He does not differentiate between good and bad, right or wrong as all can see that health and illness, happiness and sadness, long life and early death etc are equally ditributed among those considered good or bad, moral or criminal etc.

hallowed be your name.
He has no name therefore hallowing his name is hallowing namelessness

Your kingdom come,
mind is kingdom. his is the kingdom of boundless equanimity. To say "Your kingdom come" means "may the holy spirit perfuse my mind and make it like God's mind, a kingdom of boundless equanimity

your will be done,
on earth, as it is in heaven.
total surrender. I abandon my will so that your kingdom can come
...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord%27s_Prayer

:<.<:

God is a Zennie, right? He reminds me of Samantabhadra of Dzogchen :lol2:
Last edited by Herbie on Wed Mar 04, 2015 4:27 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Although we don't know anything, let's make words! Words are inspiring.
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Re: Who/What can we "pray" to when things get desperate?

Postby desert_woodworker on Wed Mar 04, 2015 4:05 pm

Sparkle,

I don't know. And I don't know how this relates to "Soto", in particular, but ...I think that if we maintain -- or take up for intervals -- a running and lively recollection that (perhaps contrary to appearances at times), all people and all things are very closely related. The fact of this connection -- or this un-foldment out of each others' same source -- is something that we know and have experienced at our best moments. Why doubt it now?

If it feels that the impact of a dread or a done-deal falls only upon our head, it could be good to realize that the blow is in fact distributed. This may not make a lot of immediate "sense", but maybe it will be helpful. And perhaps there are others around you and near you who can offer some care, or even just the gift of their presence. I knew a teacher who was known to soothe his disciples during difficult times by just crying with them, if they cried. I suppose it was helpful, since he kept doing it, and he seemed an extraordinarily sensible fellow.

Well, there are folks here who feel some of your pain, even across the miles. Maybe by your just knowing that, it's as good as gold, or as good as sending a signal or plea to the Spirit in the Sky. After all, we folks (non-deities... ) actually reply, even though it's only in flat letters on a screen. But it's certain that we're out here, "listening", breathing, together -- if not in unison, at least in union.

yours, truly,

--Joe
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Re: Who/What can we "pray" to when things get desperate?

Postby fukasetsu on Wed Mar 04, 2015 4:40 pm

Herbie wrote:Our Father in heaven,


just be(a)ware of archetypes, since one cannot act oneself out of a role.

(applies to all kinds of Gods, Buddhas, and Bodhisattvas, angels whatever.)

It usually takes a good knock on the head before even realizing one has lived in a made up world the entire time.
Differences are never in opposition.
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