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Losing my religion, and shikantaza

Discussion of Japanese Sōtō Zen / 曹洞宗

Re: Losing my religion, and shikantaza

Postby Michaeljc on Sat Feb 28, 2015 9:13 am

Herbie - you remind me of a puppy, whimpering with eyes still closed shut :heya: hey we are out here. :)
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Re: Losing my religion, and shikantaza

Postby Herbie on Sat Feb 28, 2015 9:19 am

Michaeljc wrote:Herbie - you remind me of a puppy, whimpering with eyes still closed shut :heya: hey we are out here. :)

Strange, since I am your guide dog watching your steps as you approach nothing. :)
Although we don't know anything, let's make words! Words are inspiring.
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Re: Losing my religion, and shikantaza

Postby Michaeljc on Sat Feb 28, 2015 9:38 am

Only suffering will change your attitude. Come back in 20 years
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Re: Losing my religion, and shikantaza

Postby Herbie on Sat Feb 28, 2015 9:57 am

Michaeljc wrote:Only suffering will change your attitude. Come back in 20 years

Regardless of whether you are referring to buddhist "suffering" or common sense "suffering" if there would be an attitude it would be changing continuously. So I decided to have none because it would be too effortfull to redefine it from moment to moment or to grasp one given attitude in order to stabilize it across moments.
20 years? Hmh ... that may be too optimistic ... there is good chance that I will already have crossed over from nowhere to nowhere else then. :lol2:
Although we don't know anything, let's make words! Words are inspiring.
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Re: Losing my religion, and shikantaza

Postby Michaeljc on Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:36 am

I suggest you switch to the Play thread. That's the place to play games. You will get nothing out of being here (Soto Zen)
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Re: Losing my religion, and shikantaza

Postby Herbie on Sat Feb 28, 2015 12:47 pm

Michaeljc wrote:I suggest you switch to the Play thread. That's the place to play games.

Don't say that. The play here is named "the great pretense". It is the play played within all religious traditions, especially when outsiders are watching.
The script is: "I don't know nothing at all but I must not show therefore I say 'I know better than you but if you join our club you will get to know.'"
I see these spiritual people in all their nakedness but they think they wear nice clothes. I am naked, you are naked. Nothing to know. Who cares?

Michaeljc wrote:You will get nothing out of being here (Soto Zen)

You are right, nothing ... however inspiration I have already gotten. Why is this? Because there is nothing ... but creativity.

Let's play on, shall we? :heya:
Although we don't know anything, let's make words! Words are inspiring.
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Re: Losing my religion, and shikantaza

Postby desert_woodworker on Sat Feb 28, 2015 3:47 pm

Herbie,

One doesn't want to "speak too plainly" across the miles about this matter; even a Teacher is most judicious, while in closest consultation with the student. Lest one ruin the experience for another, or let the cat or a skunk out of the bag.

But I'll say you are emphasizing the wrong aspect of practice(s). I mean, instead, what you are emphasizing are fictions, spectres that are in your imagination (I sense you do not have these ideas as a result of correct practice). Far from there being creativity, or speculation, or entertainment -- or anything not "boring" to a grasping personality -- shikantaza is almost entirely physical. Can you get your "mind" around that?

Let's see, also: how to address or help "klqv" (Luke) in this thread? That would be on-topic.

Now, if you were to begin a thread on shikantaza, creativity, expression, or boredom, I'm sure that many here would appreciate it, and knowing what your views are based on, would give it their attention (or not). There may be an appropriate area of the board to lodge it. Good luck. Welcome, again!,

--Joe
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Re: Losing my religion, and shikantaza

Postby Herbie on Sun Mar 01, 2015 7:22 am

desert_woodworker wrote:Herbie,

One doesn't want to "speak too plainly" across the miles about this matter;

Oh c'mon. There is nothing to speak about.

:bored:


desert_woodworker wrote:But I'll say you are emphasizing the wrong aspect of practice(s). I mean, instead, what you are emphasizing are fictions, spectres that are in your imagination (I sense you do not have these ideas as a result of correct practice).

See my practice is nothing and I am imagining nothing to result from it. I am not making a lot of fuss about nothing. That is the difference between your words and my words.

desert_woodworker wrote:Let's see, also: how to address or help "klqv" (Luke) in this thread? That would be on-topic.

I have already listed above what people do. I rely on his intelligence to care for himself as I rely on your intelligence to care for yourself.
If Luke and me would meet face to face ... that might be something different as far as help is concerned. Help would not necessarily arise from directly meeting but chances are that it would.

desert_woodworker wrote:Good luck. Welcome, again!

Same to you. Be free to repeat ... again and again.
Although we don't know anything, let's make words! Words are inspiring.
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Re: Losing my religion, and shikantaza

Postby desert_woodworker on Sun Mar 01, 2015 2:43 pm

Herbie,

Indeed; that's the key point. It's that way with a Zen Buddhist teacher, and student, too (as you may have experienced).

Flat words on the page or screen don't do much (although information can be valuable; and, sometimes, at their best, words are goads).

best,

--Joe

Herbie wrote:If Luke and me would meet face to face ... that might be something different as far as help is concerned.
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Re: Losing my religion, and shikantaza

Postby Herbie on Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:55 am

desert_woodworker wrote:Flat words on the page or screen don't do much (although information can be valuable; and, sometimes, at their best, words are goads).

Good. Let me know if you need goad and I'll give you nothing. :lol2:
Although we don't know anything, let's make words! Words are inspiring.
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Re: Losing my religion, and shikantaza

Postby desert_woodworker on Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:26 am

H.,

Not here; start a thread of some kind. --Joe

Herbie wrote:Good. Let me know...
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